Updated as of 6/3

X-wing (clarity, mainly, but I also separated the aces into their own paragraphs)
Y-wing (clarity as well)
A-wing (clarity)
B-wing (clarity)
HWK-290s (clarity)
Scurrgs (clarity)

I added a "How to Use Them" section to everything but the X-wing (as it already had it!), just to try making them a little more helpful. I've been busy, but I'm working on these all. I'm finishing up the other squadrons, but felt I could stand to get this all out now. Minor wording changes, etc.

The YT1300 needs an overhaul, the YT2400 needs me to have time to look at it, and and then I've got the OTHER squadrons, too. And the ships, commanders, etc.....

I'm working on them all I swear!

There's still the Gauntlet Fighter for @Snipafist ...

4 hours ago, Indy_com said:

There's still the Gauntlet Fighter for @Snipafist ...

Yeah I've been putting that one off for too long at this point. I try to write a positive review of something if I can and... well... it's more of a Mandalorian Gauntlet'snotputthisinafleet.

9 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Yeah I've been putting that one off for too long at this point. I try to write a positive review of something if I can and... well... it's more of a Mandalorian Gauntlet'snotputthisinafleet.

You lack imagination. ?

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You lack imagination. ?

I'm in good company with apparently almost everybody at Worlds and Euros. ?

12 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

it's more of a Mandalorian Gauntlet'snotputthisinafleet.

Gar Saxon, at least, seems decidedly... mediocre?

Maybe there's some kind of Mauler + Ruthless Strategists + Gar Saxon use case?

6 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

I'm in good company with apparently almost everybody at Worlds and Euros. ?

Aren’t we CONSTANTLY saying that it’s not about the list you take, it’s how you fly it?

Arent we constantly decrying the limited worlds-and-major-competition-centric mindset and “meta” that discourages people?

I mean, yes, I’m a gauntlet fan. In my own anecdotal way, I saw 3 INCREDIBLY close games go down at Calgary Regional, when I had my typical Statistically Abysmal rolls... Average, and hey, things MIGHT have been different.

I mean, I guess, in the end, I think I’d prefer you to say nothing rather than say bad things... It’s just... I don’t know, disappointing that’s the choice you seem to have? Through no fault of our own.

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Arent we constantly decrying the limited worlds-and-major-competition-centric mindset and “meta” that discourages people?

Dont put North American issues on the rest of us. Euros was very diverse.

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

Dont put North American issues on the rest of us. Euros was very diverse.

I agree.

But apparently, according to the above, Still make me feel like an outsider making “bad” choices.

I actually saw a lot of diversity at Worlds (outside of the 3/4 the Rieekan aceholes semifinalists mind you, although even there you saw differences in fleet design rather than straight mirror matches), but the Mandalorian Gauntlet wasn't included. I also write unit summary articles with a more casual player in mind and not just a hypercompetitive tournament player, which is why in general I'm loathe to say "don't take this" (to my knowledge, that's happened all of 4 times so far - Tagge, Konstantine, YV-666s, and Aggressors). That said, the Mandalorian Gauntlet (who are we kidding, Gar Saxon) hasn't really performed well consistently. It has its moments from time to time but 20-23 points is a lot for "it has its moments from time to time."

If someone wants to prove me wrong, go on ahead. Please do well with the thing and let us know all about it. I don't like having a generally negative opinion of anything in the game, so I'd be happy to change that but I need evidence.

1 minute ago, Snipafist said:

I actually saw a lot of diversity at Worlds (outside of the 3/4 the Rieekan aceholes semifinalists mind you, although even there you saw differences in fleet design rather than straight mirror matches), but the Mandalorian Gauntlet wasn't included. I also write unit summary articles with a more casual player in mind and not just a hypercompetitive tournament player, which is why in general I'm loathe to say "don't take this" (to my knowledge, that's happened all of 4 times so far - Tagge, Konstantine, YV-666s, and Aggressors). That said, the Mandalorian Gauntlet (who are we kidding, Gar Saxon) hasn't really performed well consistently. It has its moments from time to time but 20-23 points is a lot for "it has its moments from time to time."

If someone wants to prove me wrong, go on ahead. Please do well with the thing and let us know all about it. I don't like having a generally negative opinion of anything in the game, so I'd be happy to change that but I need evidence.

I had someone copycat me and it was ignored. It’s hard to fight through the assumed opinion to change the assumed opinion without people willing to try.

I guess that’s the problem o have with negative or apathetic “authorities”, and why I rail against it.

I just wish I was a “somebody” to make a difference.

I played a list utilizing them that worked shockingly well (which is to say, it won some games). I'll try to go into more detail once i have sone tine to do so.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/06/erics-post-worlds-wave-7-ish-thoughts.html

I EXIST

Seriously, I've been working on this on and off for like... two weeks now. Numerous reasons for why it took so long, but it's finally done. People can now begin telling me how wrong I am, haha.

And then on to the Mandalorian Gauntlets and Thrawn to repeat the process!

20 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/06/erics-post-worlds-wave-7-ish-thoughts.html

I EXIST

Seriously, I've been working on this on and off for like... two weeks now. Numerous reasons for why it took so long, but it's finally done. People can now begin telling me how wrong I am, haha.

And then on to the Mandalorian Gauntlets and Thrawn to repeat the process!

im telling you you're wrong, because your article results in me doing more work instead of lazily loafing my way through things!

1 hour ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/06/erics-post-worlds-wave-7-ish-thoughts.html

I EXIST

Seriously, I've been working on this on and off for like... two weeks now. Numerous reasons for why it took so long, but it's finally done. People can now begin telling me how wrong I am, haha.

And then on to the Mandalorian Gauntlets and Thrawn to repeat the process!

As an Imp, this article left a bad taste in my mouth, because it feels true. I’m not normally one to suggest radical changes, but competitive Rebel squadron dominance has really, clearly been going on too long. It might be time for a targeted series of nerfs to Ten Numb and Yavaris yet again, or bringing back Rhymer without making him Sloane-compatible, or only allowing Rieekan to affect ships (as Rebels have easy access to cheap, high-hulled generic escorts who can use Jan’s brace tokens.)

2 hours ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/06/erics-post-worlds-wave-7-ish-thoughts.html

I EXIST

Seriously, I've been working on this on and off for like... two weeks now. Numerous reasons for why it took so long, but it's finally done. People can now begin telling me how wrong I am, haha.

And then on to the Mandalorian Gauntlets and Thrawn to repeat the process!

I am not surprised about the bit about lack of options for small Imperial ships. I have been complaining about all of their flaws for a while now. XD I love Arquitens, but they need weapons team or be cheaper. Raiders 'need' a Redirect to be more effective against the things they are designed to fight. ER Raiders are also a couple points more than an ER Torpedo Corvette, yet the cheaper Hammerhead has more survivability imo. I feel like both of the ships need some rebalancing.

3 hours ago, Snipafist said:

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2018/06/erics-post-worlds-wave-7-ish-thoughts.html

I EXIST

Seriously, I've been working on this on and off for like... two weeks now. Numerous reasons for why it took so long, but it's finally done. People can now begin telling me how wrong I am, haha.

And then on to the Mandalorian Gauntlets and Thrawn to repeat the process!

This is a great article. I agree with it wholeheartedly - especially with the Sloane part. I used to love the squad game so much. But due to Sloane it has become so repetitve.

Oh, and not only thumbs up to your article. Also thumbs up to your crawling son!

Sloane doesnt auto lose to Rieekan. There is an issue that the standard Sloane build out concentrates on stacking anti fighter abilities which then struggle with Rieekan. Thats a fleet building issue rather than a flaw with Sloane.

Sloane can be built as an anti bomber wing and so rieekan squads can be merely sidestepped to go for the carrier. By having two approaches anti fighter and anti ship symultaneously the rieekan player will be forced into a mistake giving an opening for Sloane.

Tie Phantoms are Sloanes bomber and deserve respect.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...

"6) I'm not sure Admiral Sloane has been a positive addition to Armada
Please, please, put away the pitchforks and torches and hear me out first..."

No need for torches, we're using blasters over here

Imps have so many tools. I think we're putting WAY too much stock in one tourney (Worlds). Also, we HAVE to stop feeding the Rebel lists.

Imperial commanders that fly head first into a Rieekan ball without a plan deserve their punishment, but what it does is gives too much to the Rieekan player. A defensive Rieekan list deserves to be shunned.

4 hours ago, Darth Veggie said:

This is a great article. I agree with it wholeheartedly - especially with the Sloane part.

Your Darth credentials are currently on hold Mr. Veggie

On Sloane, she has been so good for the Imp squad game that we discount any other options. They're out there. (I will cautiously agree on the current TB hurt.)

From the beginning, the value of Sloane is that she made Imperial squadrons more flexible. When she first came out, we thought, "Ok. So now I can use my awesome anti-squad fighters to kill the enemy squadrons, and then they can go bomb things and be relatively effective! Got it! Kill squads. Then bomb stuff. Ok go!"

Why is that still our plan after they changed the rules for tabling? Why are we still using the same squadron group as before this rule change?

Ginkapo alludes to this nicely. Imperials have a general speed advantage, and Sloane gives them the flexibility to be more effective at bombing. Any ideas how to use that? I sure do. Unfortunately, I'm not a great player. But I sure have some ideas.

If the meta Sloane creates is one where medium and small squadron groups are disappearing, that is more of a reason to diversify her squadron groups. Sloane fleets should take advantage of the design space her presence has opened. I think some good players gravitated toward making Sloane lists that were some variant of Howlrunner, Mauler, Dengar, Maarek, Jendon, etc...; and then the assumption was made that it was optimal. But what was it optimal FOR? Killing squads? Sure. But you don't need Sloane for that.

2 hours ago, RobertK said:

From the beginning, the value of Sloane is that she made Imperial squadrons more flexible. When she first came out, we thought, "Ok. So now I can use my awesome anti-squad fighters to kill the enemy squadrons, and then they can go bomb things and be relatively effective! Got it! Kill squads. Then bomb stuff. Ok go!"

Why is that still our plan after they changed the rules for tabling? Why are we still using the same squadron group as before this rule change?

Ginkapo alludes to this nicely. Imperials have a general speed advantage, and Sloane gives them the flexibility to be more effective at bombing. Any ideas how to use that? I sure do. Unfortunately, I'm not a great player. But I sure have some ideas.

If the meta Sloane creates is one where medium and small squadron groups are disappearing, that is more of a reason to diversify her squadron groups. Sloane fleets should take advantage of the design space her presence has opened. I think some good players gravitated toward making Sloane lists that were some variant of Howlrunner, Mauler, Dengar, Maarek, Jendon, etc...; and then the assumption was made that it was optimal. But what was it optimal FOR? Killing squads? Sure. But you don't need Sloane for that.

If you don't win the squadron mini-game with Sloane, her card text is effectively blank (and against aces, she helps you win that squadron mini-game, too). This creates something of a paranoia when it comes to fleet building with her because if you hit another Sloane (or Rieekan aces) fleet going heavier into fighters than you, you run into problems.

That's not to say that there's no room for experimentation with Sloane squadron groups, but the "standard" Sloane build exists from a lot of people's trial and error and settling into a rough consensus after that. It's not just that @Green Knight settled on it, did well with it, and the rest of us just said "okay" and went along without questioning it.

TIE Phantoms are legit bomber stand-ins with Sloane, but they're tricky to use well and generally maligned by most of the community (I think they're fine, for what it's worth, but I get very anxious using them without Escort protection around due to their 4-hull flimsiness). @Ginkapo had success with 2 of them at Euros in his Sloane fleet.

9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

If you don't win the squadron mini-game with Sloane, her card text is effectively blank (and against aces, she helps you win that squadron mini-game, too).

Can you expand on this please? Sloane helps against ships first and foremost. So take Dengar and just go bombing. I dont get why she needs to win the squad fight. Attempting to win the squad fight is just going to slow you down in tabling your opponent.

9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

This creates something of a paranoia when it comes to fleet building with her because if you hit another Sloane (or Rieekan aces) fleet going heavier into fighters than you, you run into problems.

Why? I would agree pre relay nerf but now? If your opponent goes max fighters and thus has reduced their threat to your ships, (Rieekan squads are weak long range against ships as the combos dont work), then simply withdraw your squads till they overreach. Deny them the points and watch as you use your plan b whilst they flounder. Needing to win the squad fight is a weakness, use it against them to dictate the fight location. And for goodness sake spread your squadrons out and suddenly all the synergies dont stack up against you as they get spread out.

9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

That's not to say that there's no room for experimentation with Sloane squadron groups, but the "standard" Sloane build exists from a lot of people's trial and error and settling into a rough consensus after that. It's not just that @Green Knight settled on it, did well with it, and the rest of us just said "okay" and went along without questioning it.

This standard group was built pre relay nerf when they could be commanded on the other side of the table. This is no longer permitted and the squadron wing needs to be revisited accordingly. No longer can you chase down enemy squads into the corners. If the enemy wishes to not engage their squads there is little you can do about it.

9 hours ago, Snipafist said:

TIE Phantoms are legit bomber stand-ins with Sloane, but they're tricky to use well and generally maligned by most of the community (I think they're fine, for what it's worth, but I get very anxious using them without Escort protection around due to their 4-hull flimsiness). @Ginkapo had success with 2 of them at Euros in his Sloane fleet.

Most seem to get upset when they get 1 dmg of 2 red dice. It seems poor but thats actually outperforming most other options. Thats why they have 2 dice so the regular blanks on individual dice doesnt matter. The occassional 3 and 4 dmg rolls completely flip a game in your favour.

Talking about spreading out.

Against Rikki

Against Lightknight:

They cant stack their synergies but I can command all my squads. And black is sitting with Dengar.

4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Talking about spreading out.

Against Rikki

Against Lightknight:

They cant stack their synergies but I can command all my squads. And black is sitting with Dengar.

I love that orange even when I don't like the scheme too much. It makes them seems dangerous...

7 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Can you expand on this please? Sloane helps against ships first and foremost. So take Dengar and just go bombing. I dont get why she needs to win the squad fight. Attempting to win the squad fight is just going to slow you down in tabling your opponent.

In my experience, it mostly comes down to the fact that against other squad-heavy fleets your bombing assets (in most typical Sloane fleets, Maarek+Jendon, but also including TIE Phantoms, which are flimsier) will be destroyed with prejudice unless you destroy enemy squadrons first, and then you're stuck with Sloane's biggest issue of generally being poor at going after enemy ships. I realize your retort is going to be "that's why TIE Phantoms!" - I'm with you on TIE Phantoms, so you're not going to get a lot of disagreement on that one from me. From others, potentially, but I've used them just fine with Sloane.

Quote

Why? I would agree pre relay nerf but now? If your opponent goes max fighters and thus has reduced their threat to your ships, (Rieekan squads are weak long range against ships as the combos dont work), then simply withdraw your squads till they overreach. Deny them the points and watch as you use your plan b whilst they flounder. Needing to win the squad fight is a weakness, use it against them to dictate the fight location. And for goodness sake spread your squadrons out and suddenly all the synergies dont stack up against you as they get spread out.                    

It really depends on the Rieekan fleet. Against something like Nate Coda won Worlds with, you're still going up against a Neb-B and an HMC80 with an ISD and an Arquitens (your Euros fleet) or a Quasar (most standard Sloane fleets), which is about an even match. The front-arc ISD is going to get itself into trouble against the Rieekan bomber blob eventually. Going to Plan B works when you've got enough combat ships available, but it really depends on the build and you get into issues of fleet composition and player skill - if you've got the edge in combat ships but the other player has the edge in squadrons, who wins? I couldn't tell you off-hand, it really depends.

I don't disagree on spreading squads out. When I run Sloane, I typically have 3-4 pockets of squadrons awaiting squad commands so as to not leave a big blob target for the other guy. I see big blobs (pre-furball, anyways) more often that I'd like.

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This standard group was built pre relay nerf when they could be commanded on the other side of the table. This is no longer permitted and the squadron wing needs to be revisited accordingly. No longer can you chase down enemy squads into the corners. If the enemy wishes to not engage their squads there is little you can do about it.  

I'm fine with continuing to experiment with the basic build (I mean even if I wasn't, what am I supposed to do - come to your game store and put you in a choke hold if you try something new? ? ), especially as the meta slowly shifts in response to the April errata, I was mostly just explaining why the standard 8 were the standard 8 - a lot of table time has gone into coming to that grouping. Does it deserve to stay that way? Maybe, maybe not. The issue as I see it with current Sloane builds is if you do go lighter on fighters and heavier on Sloane bombers (Phantoms or Defenders, really, as TIE Bombers are awful with Sloane) you still run the risk of hitting the standard 8 and getting out-fightered. Whether your fleet can handle that depends on the build and the skill of the two players involved.

Quote

Most seem to get upset when they get 1 dmg of 2 red dice. It seems poor but thats actually outperforming most other options. Thats why they have 2 dice so the regular blanks on individual dice doesnt matter. The occassional 3 and 4 dmg rolls completely flip a game in your favour.

The uncertainty of the TIE Phantom attacks I've found can be advantageous. Like you, I found that most of the time they'd average out around 1 damage, sometimes 2, but the possibility (and I've seen it!) of 3+ damage can make defense token spending around them uncomfortable because of what they could do, but are unlikely to. I've seen people punished for not taking that possibility seriously but I've also seen people punished for taking it too seriously.