I saw this on the 2e living document -- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WBD6vYa6cXMFsQNdbfSK1kjQdscdsQ_aLfMTbGqRsfY/edit#

Thoughts? Is that expensive enough? That's a equivalent to 15 point upgrade in 1.0 It also says Han costs 92 base (so equivalent cost as 1.0) so we're talking 122 points to pair those together.

Obviously this cost could change, but its likely to be the starting cost without the community having its hands on it?

I’m glad Luke is more expensive than a cheap ship.

122 points seem fair. It will probably still need an Engine upgrade to make the boost white, the falcon title, and crew options. Some defensive crew upgrades.

I imagine the full "Fat Han" build will be approx 150 points, which is a lot of points. A generic filler X-Wing can fit next to it, (or the equivalent in other ships) but I doubt that's enough to make a difference.

It seems fair. Luke seems like a learning tool for new players. Putting 3/4 of your list in one ship, that can only shoot once, isn't very smart, it probably won't be competitive.

Taking this with a huge grain of salt. Why would Leebo be nearly 30 points cheaper than Dash?

11 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Taking this with a huge grain of salt. Why would Leebo be nearly 30 points cheaper than Dash?

Droids are worthless, lesser beings? I dunno.

13 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Taking this with a huge grain of salt. Why would Leebo be nearly 30 points cheaper than Dash?

Because higher initiative comes at a premium?

25 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Taking this with a huge grain of salt. Why would Leebo be nearly 30 points cheaper than Dash?

He's also listed at 90 points in that document, so there's conflicting information there. That seems more reasonable - 8 points cheaper than Dash.

Assuming these points are accurate, it doesn't look too bad. Luke at 30 points, combined with the best platforms for him being over 90 points base, means you'll be at a serious disadvantage against swarms, or even just lists with more balanced points distribution. One thing I'm a little concerned about is the proliferation of crew/gunner slots on ships. I feel like a lot of the errors FFG made with some of the most broken ships, was giving them too many upgrade slots, which meant the combos got out of control quite quickly.

4 minutes ago, Jike said:

I feel like a lot of the errors FFG made with some of the most broken ships, was giving them too many upgrade slots, which meant the combos got out of control quite quickly.

This is why slots aren't printed anymore. They can remove (or even add) slots if interactions get too crazy. Dash just too much with expert handling? 2400 loses it's Pilot Talent slot.

Should be at least twice as expensive unless its cost ends up scaling with I and/or ship type

Which is something the FAQ said the app could do

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Should be at least twice as expensive unless its cost ends up scaling with I and/or ship type

Which is something the FAQ said the app could do

Why not 4 times... nay, 6 times as expensive! You can't even put him on a Y-wing then!

While that would be for the best, it'd have to be technically playable in standard since it's confirmed for the conversion kits and not an epic expac

And much better to overcost Luke than to remove potential gunner upgrades from the yts

30 points seems fair given our current knowledge of the game. At that cost he won't be autoinclude, but you can absolutely make him fit into a fat Han or fat Dash build.

At 72 points for a base level Defender they had better have access to the systems slot.

7 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

At 72 points for a base level Defender they had better have access to the systems slot.

At least. And a double tapping configuration.

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Should be at least twice as expensive unless its cost ends up scaling with I and/or ship type

Which is something the FAQ said the app could do

Nonsense. The turrets are already just as expensive as their 1.0 counterparts. And they don’t have any of the tools that made them dominant. 30 is a decent place to start him.

Oh snap 3 e-wings? Corran 74? Can I fit Corran in with 2 generics? ?

If a 74 point corran double shots at initiative 5, surely an initiative 1-2 defender can do the same for 72... right?

I'll be sorely disappointed if a double defender list can only shoot once per ship. How many times can the Ghost shoot, ffs?

I'm pretty sure only twice, unless the wording is weird? Each ship only gets one bonus attack per round ever.

32 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

At 72 points for a base level Defender they had better have access to the systems slot.

Hmm... the x7 Delta Squadron Pilot is worth at least 30 points (Relative to the old standard of an Academy Pilot for 12). So lets call it 60 points in 2.0 before we change anything. We now give it back the secondary weapon slots, add a shield, improve the dial, and add the boost and evade actions. Is that worth twelve (six in 1.0 terms) points?

... I'd say that feels a little expensive for an Initiative 1 defender, and might merit a new upgrade slot. On the other hand, that sounds about right if the Delta Squadron Pilot got a boost to two or three, since a PS 1 pilot on the empire's most advanced starship always felt weird.

9 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

I'm pretty sure only twice, unless the wording is weird? Each ship only gets one bonus attack per round ever.

Three if you use Han Gunner and an attack shuttle, actually; Han Turret shot at I7 (which is not a bonus attack), Forward attack at normal initiative, then a bonus attack out the back. Of course, since you have to dock an Attack shuttle for that third attack, it's more like getting three attacks out of two ships.

9 minutes ago, Squark said:

Hmm... the x7 Delta Squadron Pilot is worth at least 30 points (Relative to the old standard of an Academy Pilot for 12). So lets call it 60 points in 2.0 before we change anything. We now give it back the secondary weapon slots, add a shield, improve the dial, and add the boost and evade actions. Is that worth twelve (six in 1.0 terms) points?

... I'd say that feels a little expensive for an Initiative 1 defender, and might merit a new upgrade slot. On the other hand, that sounds about right if the Delta Squadron Pilot got a boost to two or three, since a PS 1 pilot on the empire's most advanced starship always felt weird.

The x7 Delta was 28 points which is 56 points in 2.0. That extra shield, boost, and tiny dial buff is not worth 16 points. Its offensive capabilities are pretty low for such an expensive ship with 6 laser cannons. Hopefully we will have access to FCS, as not only should the most advanced fighter have access to systems, but the Defender could really use the offense if you can only take two in a list.

5 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The x7 Delta was 28 points which is 56 points in 2.0. That extra shield, boost, and tiny dial buff is not worth 16 points. Its offensive capabilities are pretty low for such an expensive ship with 6 laser cannons. Hopefully we will have access to FCS, as not only should the most advanced fighter have access to systems, but the Defender could really use the offense if you can only take two in a list.

The x7 Delta was also blatant power creep, breaking the old efficiency standards set by the Z-95 and Tie Fighter*. 2.0 seems to be returning to the Tie Fighter standard, so I ignored the discount from the x7 title.

*Or perhaps a response to existing power creep like the Wave IV Falcon and TLT. Potatoe, Potatoh.

6 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

The x7 Delta was 28 points which is 54 points in 2.0. That extra shield, boost, and tiny dial buff is not worth 18 points. Its offensive capabilities are pretty low for such an expensive ship with 6 laser cannons. Hopefully we will have access to FCS, as not only should the most advanced fighter have access to systems, but the Defender could really use the offense if you can only take two in a list.

9 points in 1e terms. Shield is 4, engine is 4, Mk 2 engine is 1 (2e has white 1 banks, which is actually a rather important buff, not a “slight” improvement), gained the native evade action so you can still get an evade if you want after going slow or with coordinate. And the lowest initiative we’be seen so far is a 4, which would be comparable to the 32 point (after x7) royal guards, and that’s before the improvements.

Additionally, it’s one of only two chassis to my recollection that can stack focus/evade by default, and the only one with 3 agility.

Point cost vary depending on who is equipping the upgrade as I heard that Vectored Thrusters on a Y wing was 4 points but on Dash it was 30. So with him starting at 92, Outsider title being 10, that's a 132 pt ship and you haven't put a EPT or a crew on him yet .. add Luke Crew at OP cost suggestion of 30 and you have a one ship list essentially, especaly if you go with Lone Wolf.

Same with Stealth Device. It seemed the cost increased depending on what your starting agility had.

So the real question here is ..

Can a Initiative 5 YT2400, with one Lone Wolf re-roll a turn, perfect arc knowledge, white barrel roll, obstacle ignoring, red token removing Dash handle five X wings in 75 minutes?

I reckon, no.

1 minute ago, Squark said:

The x7 Delta was also blatant power creep (or a response to existing power creep), breaking the old efficiency standards set by the Z-95 and Tie Fighter. 2.0 seems to be returning to the Tie Fighter standard, so I ignored the discount from the x7 title.

Without x7 it was also blatantly overpriced. And it’s balanced fine after the x7 nerf