When character of 9+ rank spend XP - can he gain talents from his old ranks (1-8) using their costs?

I would say yes. But I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't quote anything that lead me to believe that.

I don't see why not. After all, they're still previous ranks the character has bought.

And seriously, it'd be a pretty bleak prospect for everyone if all they had to look forward to in Ranks 9-16 were a host of Peer talents they might rather not pick up and another host of Good Rep talents they probably can't pick up.

Mrakvampire said:

It explicitly states that this is the case in a couple of places. The easiest for me to locate was on pg. 49 in the Interrogator to Inquisitor sidebar. In the example it states the character still has full access to all talents/skills and such from all previous ranks; including ranks 1-8.

There were some other interesting bits along these lines I could have sworn I read, but I can't locate right now. I will post and reference them should I just not have been imagining things.

-=Brother Praetus=-

I don't have the book on hand, but I remember it specifically stating somewhere near the new career section that you can. I mean, for the new stats how do you expect to take some of them if you can't up the first four ranks any more?

Yes, you can. In the section on having an Interrogator become an Inquisitor they specifically say you can buy stuff from ranks 1-8 as well.

Page 28 "Step One: Choosing your Path":

It is important to remember that whilst choosing an ascended career path opens new doors for your character and gives him access to powerful new skills, talents, and traits, it does not prohibit him from taking advances from his old career path, reflecting the years of training and practice he already possesses in his chosen vocation.

Chester said:

There it is... I knew I had seen it somewhere in there. Thanks Chester.

-=Brother Praetus=-

the only restriction is on the bonus 500xp a character gets when they accend, that must be spent on talents/skills from rank 9.

Chester said:

It would have been nice if they had added in a caveat that players could go back and buy skills/talents from the career path choices that they DIDNT take - especially as the section on making an ascended character from scratch effectively allows this to happen. I guess they left it out so people would have to buy the paragon talents in bulk rather than go back and cherry pick for the one or two individual talents they didnt get hold of.

The other weird thing about XP spends i have found out is that, having ascended my Guardsman to an Inquisitor, the costs for the 5th and 6th stat advances for some stats are now cheaper than my 3rd and 4th advances - mad! - im gonna ask the GM to allow the xp costs to be re-worked back into cost order instead.

S.K.

Solomon Kane said:

Wait... Are you complaining because the career you ascended to has characteristic advances that are not "logical" progressions for Guardsman? You're an Inquisitor now, Kane, some things are expected to come more naturally to you now then when you were just a Guardsman. Why change it?

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

I should have said that, especially in the case of willpower and fellowship, i havent actually bought any of the advances as yet.

Chester, there is always the caveat already in the books about buying advances missed when taking an alternate advance. I want to say this small sidebar box is in IH, and am relatively sure its near the elite advances. I believe the sidebar suggests tacking 50xp on each advance from your original traded out rank onto the cost of what you want. You may yet find that cheaper if your GM uses it than buying the Paragon versions. I have found that half the time Paragon is cheaper, half the time going back is cheaper. Really depends on what you do not have from the Paragon/Master you are trying to achieve.

Alexis

*smiles*

Solomon Kane said:

Ah, then I can understand the want for a change. That is an interesting situation. I'll have to think on what I will do for my own game, should it come up.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Cailieg said:

Inquisitor's Handbook ; page 53. It's the sidebar titled " Elite Advances from Missed Career Ranks ." Otherwise, you are spot on Alexis.

-=Brother Praetus=-

This is where I as a GM really love the "Elite Advance" rules in DH. They allow for logical developments in a character's training and experiences to break them free of the cookie cutter template and become their own unique person. I also make use of this to help reward and reflect good character background development.

Our Assassin is a Sibelus Hiver from one of the "gun-fane" families and has had ample opportunity to work alongside our Techpriest... He has elite advances into Trade (Armourer) as well as some of the underworld skills that are more at home on a Scum. He also took advantage of some Inquisitorial/Navy goodwill to arrange for a little combat pilot training.

Our Guardsman is a Cadian noble and came from the 8th Kasrkin prior to recruitment. Obviously she has a few extra shooting talents that Guard Officers don't usually have. She also picked up Unarmed Warrior as an elite advance (at the time RT was out but not Ascention)

Our Adept is mostly known for her impressive mental abilities and impressive swordsmanship, but she also has a rare gift for employing heavy laser weapons to enact the Emperor's vengeance! Why? On a mission to raid and purge a HereTek fortified complex we lacked a turret gunner for our borrowed Chimaera, so lacking a better option we stuffed her up there. Even with the nasty -20 untrained penalty she simply could NOT miss with that Multilaser! Not even with rapid fire... EVERY shot hit a cultist with uncanny accuracy. After testing her for posession (she wasn't) it was clear that she had a hidden talent... She also picked up a few Forbidden Lore skills not normally available on the Adept list due to in-game opportunities.

The Techpriest is on the Magos career branch but wanted exactly ONE advance from the militant branch. The team currently is owed several large favours by the Mechanicus, so he tapped into this and offered me a big fat pile of XP... He is now the proud owner of the Machinator Array (as well as the rather dubious "Sink" skill). Since this has appeared as a standard option for the Magos ascended career I feel quite retroactively justified.

Several more examples from my group, but I think that covered the point. Say you have a player who is making a "Rough Rider" character concept: Start with the Guardsman as normal, but replace the starting Drive skill option with Wrangling. Toss in cheap (say 100xp) elite advance Wrangling +10 to rank 1 and Wrangling +20 to rank 2 or 3. Survival and Navigation (Ground) are already available to Guardsmen, so you are more or less set. If I am building something like this for a player then I make a special "elite package" to help keep track of it.

I am also pretty easy to talk into allowing a character to upgrade a skill from "basic" to trained if they gained the skill due to character background. Common Lore (Imperial Creed) for a Schola graduate or Pilot (Civilian) for a Voidborn for example.