I was incredibly excited for Genesys when I heard about it, and picked up RoT as soon as it came out, but one thing has bothered me that I had hoped RoT would address, but it didn't:

There's no explanation on how players gain access to spells or additional effects, and nothing (other than the available spells) to differentiate one "school" of magic from the others.

Originally, I had decided to implement a system where a player gains access to one base spell per rank in the associated magic skill (eg, 1 rank in Primal could unlock access to the Attack or Enhance spell). Then I figured I would grant everyone one or two additional effects "known" for each base spell they knew, and use additional effects as rewards throughout the campaign. Yet that still seems nebulous to me, and doesn't really define the different magics.

I kind of want to tie magic to items in some way. Yes, implements take the Attack spell from being a nuisance to being a threat, and can make other spells rather potent with their free spell upgrades, but I want something more integral to the casting. Just not sure how to accomplish any of that.

One option would be to tie magic to talents: Tier 1 (Ranked) grants access to a single base spell (requires a rank in the associated magic skill); gain an additional spell per rank.

Another would be to mix talents and my skill ranks system: gain 1 base spell per rank in the associated spell, then have a ranked talent that grants access to 1 additional effect for a spell you know; additional ranks grant 2 additional effects from among spells you know. Perhaps, the ranked talent grants additional effects of 1 difficulty, then there could be an Improved and Supreme version granting access to additional effects of +2 difficulty, then +3 difficulty, but I don't necessarily want to force someone into that kind of progression.

Could also make additional effects a straight XP sink--spend 5 XP per difficulty added? Or your first additional effect is 5 x number of additional effects known for that spell?

Additionally, in my setting, I kind of wanted to define the 3 types of magic:

Divine --"Ancestral" (a bit of the magic of the gods passed down through your family line)

Primal -- "Elemental" or "Animancy" (tapping into the adjoining elemental planes, or the world of the fey, perhaps, but ultimately utilizing raw magics coursing through the world)

Arcane -- "Aethemancy" or "Mysticism" (the utilization of magic based on study and refining of available magical forces to create magical effects)

But how to make them feel different? Just narrative description? I was thinking Mysticism might require study like a D&D wizard does, having to carry a spellbook, but then it wouldn't make sense to have spells tied to talents. Elemental could require a bit of an element in question (a piece of metal or something) to harness or focus the magic.

That is just flavor and narrative. You can tie further mechanics to it than the core book does, but you also don't have to.

The difference between a Arcane fireball and a Divine fireball isn't a mechanical difference if the exact same upgrades are choosen, but a narrative one. The Arcane might be a spell formula, where as the Divine is a prayer. Mechanically they are the same, but the narrative and the "how" they are cast might be different in that aspect.

One of the best parts of the genesys magic system to me is that magic is freeflow. Sure you can have specific spells, and if you do i would highly suggest following the signature spell talent's example of making them easier to cast because they are specific spells, but you don't have to have specific spells either.

The best way to make them feel different is to just ask the player how they cast the spell. Sure mechanically they are doing X, but what does it look like? what does it sound like? what does it feel like?

I cast an attack spell with fire and blast.

That is mechanics.

Pyros the Firemage starts a deep quite chant in a arcane and unintelligible dialect, slowing raising in volume and pitch like a ember catching hold. At the apex of this chanting he throws his piece of coal at the insert baddie here as it flies to it's target it starts a deep red glow. Half way to the target it erupts in flame, growing into a blazing comet right before it impacts.

That is flavor and feel.

gotta make sure both you and your players are doing both to get the effect you desire.

If you think that it's important to create this kind of thing, go on

Personally, this isn't important to me in Genesys, cause the system is very abstract. Narrative description should be enough mostlye of the time to describre the things and their differences.

There is a side box in the Core, in the page 212 (Different Disciplines,
Different Approaches) that talks about this very well about this. And in the side box in the page 210 (Learning Magic), the book is clear to say that:

"as the GM you might want to consider imposing additional in-game requirements. Not only does this add more challenge for PCs seeking such power, but it provides an opportunity to underscore the rarity and power of magic and to illustrate how it fits into your setting. A character who wants to advance in Thaumaturgy might be required to abide by the rules of their religious order to receive training. You may require a would-be wizard to seek out a tutor and convince them to accept an apprentice, or to discover and study an ancient tome of spells."

To work as a generic system, it's important to be somehow flexible, otherwise it would difficult the creation of new content or an adaptation to other settings.

But I also think it's good to create specific talents, itens AND additional effects for specific magics/skills. This could be very cool

If you want players to have to invest in learning magic spells then you probably need to do one of three things, reduce the difficulty slightly, increase the potency, or reduce the strain cost. Mostly magic in Genesys is capable of doing everything, if magic can no longer do everything then the magic users need to invest in other skills to accomplish the same amount as others in the group, they will be left wondering if xp or money in Magic is even worthwhile.

I like the concept of having causes for magic, but I agree that it's more of a flavor thing than a mechanic thing in general. Or, it could be both.

I can see where a character might draw power from an elemental plane (air, earth, fire, water, ice, whatever) or a specific place (a fount of power or the Pattern of Amber) or an item (the One Ring, a magical amulet) or something like that. I think that the setting is more fun when players do so because it may define the type of magic cast (no fire from an elemental plane of water, for example) or maybe a strength-of-spell modifier based on location (extra blue/black dice for being near/far from the source).

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

I kind of wanted to define the 3 types of magic:

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

But how to make them feel different?

So your looking for ways to differentiate the 3 different types of magic mechanically, as well as narratively, so that when a character casts a spell it doesn't just feel like a reskin of the same engine, yes?

So, since you want 3 different flavors of magic, you need 3 different mechanical approaches, one fore each.

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Originally, I had decided to implement a system where a player gains access to one base spell per rank in the associated magic skill

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

One option would be to tie magic to talents:

17 hours ago, yeti1069 said:

Another would be to mix talents and my skill ranks system:

Seriously though, there isn't much more to it than that. What I would do is start by narratively deciding how you want each type of magic to work, not just the bullet point elevator pitch above, but in some detail, and then look for ways to implement that mechanically. Off the top of my head,

Ancestral Magic - passed down the family line sounds like the magical power is more inherent in the character rather than a learned skill. Sure, they can learn to use their power more effectively by increasing their skill level, but the source of the power sounds like it might be more talent related, so possibly create a talent that gives access to this magic. The talent provides a limited number of effects and upgrades that are chosen at character creation. To gain more you can either allow the talent (or a different one) be taken again or just say that it requires some kind of significant event in the characters life to open up new possibilities otherwise what magic the character can do is set at birth and the only thing that changes is how well they can do it. Such a character might also be allowed to cast spells with no skill in the magic, just using un-upgraded dice to represent a sort of wild mage. Create a custom list of threat and despair options for this one so that the magic seems less predictable and more unknown.

Aethemancy or Mysticism - sounds like fairly standard fantasy magic cliche, so probably shouldn't be tied to talents. Should probably have spell books, but not necessarily needing to have them on hand to cast spells, only needed to LEARN them (although having the relevant book on hand when casting might count as some sort of implement). What I would do for this sort of magic is actually create spell lists. Give the players some number of spells/upgrades to start and have them create a list of specific spells that they know that use their magic skill (give the skill a flavorful name, not just "arcane") and that are in their spell book. Then, during the course of the campaign, they can discover new spell books and scrolls, each with its own specific spell list. To learn this new type of magic the mage has to buy up a new magic skill that covers THOSE spells. To offset the XP cost of having to learn multiple magic skills, possibly have each skill also include some non-magical knowledge that the mage can draw on. A spellbook of fire magics, frex, may also give the mage some skill at lighting mundane campfires, making torches, crafting fireworks, etc... not as much as someone with a dedicated skill in those fields, but better than nothing. Have backfires for these spells be more consistent and less flashy (except maybe despairs).

With these options those 2 types of magic feel VERY different. The Ancestral magic should come across as a somewhat unknown, the sorcerer can make things up on the fly and twist and contort their magic to a greater or lesser degree, but can't really learn NEW magic, just better ways of doing the magic they already posses, while the Aethermage will be constantly striving to find new spells and may collect quite a library. They will have lots of bizarre, off the wall bits of knowledge and minor skills from all their studying, but their magic won't be particularly flexible. If they know a spell that covers a situation great, if not, well too bad.

Elemental Magic - Your description for this one "tapping into the adjoining ... planes, ... ultimately utilizing raw magics coursing through the world" doesn't really provide much inspiration. That could be a description for virtually any magic system in any game. Are they contacting spirits or elementals and asking for boons? Might want to connect it to pressence or charisma somehow. Are they summoning creatures and compelling them to perform feats? Are they reaching out and grabbing (physically or psychically) magical energy and tying it into intricate patterns that then have some effect? Can they draw on multiple planes or are they bound to one? If the later then all of their spells should have an effect related to that plane built in. Since they are dealing with otherworldly powers, perhaps institute some form of corruption system. Every point of magical strain they get adds to their corruption total (either in addition to or in stead of the strain) and at certain thresholds they start taking on the aspects of whatever plane they are drawing on, becoming creatures of fire or water or fey or void or whatever. Should probably make those effects more negative than positive, with the threat of becoming an NPC if it goes on to long. Such corruption may heal over time, or the character may need to perform specific rituals to cleanse themselves (possibly, if the effects are tied to certain thresholds of corruption, it can only be cleansed down to the dividing line. Once you have gained an aspect of elemental earth you can't get rid of it, you can just prevent gaining any more).

Obviously, with all of these, you then need to tweak power levels some to try and keep things more or less balanced.