Here is the part that best sums up the whole article:

Quote

X-Wing was the first board miniatures game I really sank my teeth into.

If you haven't played other mini games and been through a change of editions, you might be really unhappy with how this is done.

If you have played other games that have changed editions you probably think this is not so bad.

For me, I was about to quit the game. I have spend hundreds of dollars and a lot of time on this game. I was ready to quit my podcast and move on to another game. My many ships and pounds of cardboard were ready to sit in the closet. Now, I can spend $190 and get to have fun playing the game again. Oh, I will have a bunch of cards and cardboard I won't use anymore. I will have a ton of plastic ships I will still get to play with. I'm thinking it's well worth it to buy into another 5-6 years.

Honestly, freeing points from preview articles is probably the best thing ever. Now when you read a new card you think of all the possible places you can use it with out having to go though the "is it worth it" equation. You get the freedom to find combos with every card. Who knows, maybe people will even brainstorm the points cost that will make it fair in the forums and the devs may even tweak the points appropriately. The only real downside to the official app is that it will probably never let us proxy things before release.

I agree with original poster at least in one thing: I hate app requirement. I get involved in unplugged games in the first place beceause of the fact that I didn't want to spend my free time staring at the monitor all the time. App requirement for X-Wing 2.0 would be fine if it would come with removal of card requirement - as it stands FFG restricitons made no sense at all - we have to use app, yet we can't go to tournament without redundand piece of paper that brings no unique information at all.
Also worth noting is the fact that with fully unplugged game, like X-Wing 1.0, you will be able to play it long after it stopped being published - with X-Wing 2.0 it won't be possible because sooner or later app will go out of compatibility with operating systems.

7 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

I get involved in unplugged games in the first place beceause of the fact that I didn't want to spend my free time staring at the monitor all the time.

So you never used squad builders? Eg the Aurora on iOS or YetAnotherSquadBuilder online?

7 minutes ago, Embir82 said:

Also worth noting is the fact that with fully unplugged game, like X-Wing 1.0, you will be able to play it long after it stopped being published - with X-Wing 2.0 it won't be possible because sooner or later app will go out of compatibility with operating systems.

That‘s not true because you can print out whatever you want and keep it for future reference.

Lessons learned are assembled during a project, archived at the end, and reviewed when starting a similar project.

I was buying 100pts of every new ship to release up until I had to start saving for my upcoming wedding. I still have an urge to buy what I need to flesh out my collection to 100pts on these last few waves where I only bought 1. Yet my current plan is to only buy one of each conversion along with 1 of each new release for 2.0. I learned that when they release a fix, I'll be getting those extra ships to bump me closer to 100(200)pts, so I don't need to start at max with untested(by them,not me*) releases.

*I never test builds. I try them, maybe even a dozen times against different things, but testing requires limited variables and large data sets. I've learned this is true for many of us and I replace the word test with try when I read it on these forums.

My current collection takes up a ton of space, and the second edition will too. I'e learned storage solutions that work at home and to bring lists to it's. I'm ready already in this aspect.

When ships have released, there were dud pilots and ships, and others that were overpowered due to costs and/or synergies. I've learned to expect this from FFG, and won't be surprised when it happens in 2.0. But I will expect post-release fixes in the app after each new wave, and very much hope for another app update after each tournament season (after store champs, after regional, after system open, etc) to keep the engine tuned. I'e learned they can reach to hard data proving an imbalance, but that they probably also more or less play-try lists as opposed to play-testing them so mistakes will happen.

I apply the lessons I've learned from 1.0 as a gauge against which I measure my excitement and optimism for 2.0. To summarize: The game at its core is fun. OP are slow to react to problems but get it right in the end (intentional draws). This community is great. Star Wars Galaxies Is the best source for new ships. I expect 2.0 to surpass 1.0 eventually, but it's going to be a bumpy ride out of the gate. Gonk.

On 6/1/2018 at 7:50 PM, Commander Kaine said:

There were too many overarching problems with 1.0. Let the past die.

Kill it, if you have to.

In the meantime.....

Store champs. Let the cheating ensue.

There are some decent points in the article, but overall I am in favor of the majority of the changes. Especially these-

1. App support/requirement: I always used an app-based squad builder to make my lists anyway. Its faster, more accurate (app updates are quicker and easier to implement than massive FAQs), and requires less paper. FFG having the ability to adjust costs/slots will keep the game more competitive and balanced overall, and FFG has a decent track record of informing players of both the changes and reasons behind said changes in a timely manner; meaning I don't believe they will make changes without informing us.

2. No longer requiring players to purchase all/most of a Wave to stay competitive. I got out of the game over a year ago because I couldn't justify buying a bunch of Rebel expansions, or purchasing the cards alone at inflated secondary prices, just to play competitively with my Imperial ships. X-wing 2.0 is easier to play a single faction according to FFG, with lesser or no need to purchase other factions' expansions.

Let’s remember the app information per FFG will also be available as a website and as a downloadable PDF.

16 hours ago, RookiePilot said:

Dengar5 is just putting in text what most of us must have went through with the announcement of second edition.

I did not write the blog post, just shared it here. It's nice to see good 2e dialogue in this thread, like your post.

I do not have 1 or more of every expansion, so that part of the blog I don't completely connect with. But even with my medium size collection, I'm anxious to see how the conversation boxes will match with the ships I do have. 2e is turning out to be strong motivation to sell the ships I won't be using. It is worrying that the boxes may not contain the number of generic pilots that many of us are hoping for.

I really hope that no one complaining about the conversion kit has ever bought an aces pack because it would be rather hypocritical to complain about a 50$ pack updating an entire faction when being perfectly happy paying 30$ to update two ships - and most are still worthless even after. Same hypocricy as with squadbuilders and the app.

Another aspect that I find to be misunderstood (e: IF I'm right, and that's yet to be seen) is just how much money we will save with the switch to 2.0. The days of buying the autothruster or expertise expansion, or 100$ palpatine are finally over! Even better, we are now actually able to focus on one faction. I never understood why people are doing so in 1.0, but seemed like I was always in the minority there. So despite all my posts that self-limiting to one faction is pointless in 1.0, I have to adjust that for 2.0 as it is now perfectly reasonable and seems even intentioned by FFG - despite the accusations that 2.0 is a cash grab.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Even better, we are now actually able to focus on one faction. I never understood why people are doing so in 1.0, but seemed like I was always in the minority there. So despite all my posts that self-limiting to one faction is pointless in 1.0, I have to adjust that for 2.0 as it is now perfectly reasonable and seems even intentioned by FFG - despite the accusations that 2.0 is a cash grab.

I'm somewhat cautious about this. FFG have said they will release all cards in each faction (except faction specific cards ofc), but to my knowledge they never implied it will be done at the same time for all of them. Worst case scenario: if you're let's say a Rebel player and a new must have card has just came out in a Scum pack, it doesn't really help you to know you'll get it too in 2-3 waves.

16 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

Worst case scenario: if you're let's say a Rebel player and a new must have card has just came out in a Scum pack, it doesn't really help you to know you'll get it too in 2-3 waves.

That's true. Hmmm. Maybe more cards per pack is part of the reason why the prices got increased, additionally to the around 9% inflation and the rumored new production in the US?

Cautios sounds appropriate though. I'm still optimistic, even if cautiously.

Hurry Up and Make Your Thing

Well made my kit and format already, and happy to drop them in BGG archives (those two things are taking up all my file space on this site).

2.0 seem interesting with the actual split between the subfactions and not just a soft split as I tried to do in my "alliance" list building format. I think I will take a look at it again with 2.0 and now 5 factions. Maybe try to future proof it for when the Republic and C.I.S. factions come out. Scum will still be Mercenary guns4hire. They won't be able to take allies, but can be taken as allies by any faction.

I found it interesting when he said that it was the casual part of his brain that objected strongly to 2.0, because I'm the opposite. I'm a completely casual player, and I'm absolutely in love with the idea of 2.0! I got into X-Wing because I wanted to fly ships I liked around, and was always frustrated that the primary lists most people in my area fly are 2-ship lists with high PS and 5-6 upgrades on each ship. Every single turn pretty much goes, "Ok, so all of your ships move, and take an action. Then each of my ships, prior to moving, gets a couple reposition actions for a stress, then green maneuver clears the stress, then I get two more actions, a target lock, and four Evade tokens. Oh, and I get to fire first, in any direction thanks to my turret, and convert three of my dice to crits."

I get that I could use the exact same lists, but those just don't appeal to me. I play the game because I want to fly ships around and roll dice, not because I want a bunch of upgrade cards to essentially play the game for me. In 2.0, it sounds like they're trying to have more trade-offs. Some of the previewed cards grant free actions, but make them red. Some cards require charges instead of simply occurring every turn. And of course, card costs can always be adjusted in the app if they get to be too powerful.

I also think he overcautioned a bit when it came to power creep. Yes, power creep will exist in 2.0, but I doubt it'll be as bad as it was in 1.0. From what I saw, 1.0 players weren't complaining because a new ship was a little better than their current favorite; they were complaining because new ships were better in every single way than their current ships, for comparable costs. Some of the most popular ships (fan-wise, not necessarily player-wise) were almost unplayable, other than to put them on the board and say, "Gee, don't they look pretty these couple of turns before they all get annihilated?" In 2.0, with the upgrade slots and costs in the app, it'll be much easier to allow older ships to take new upgrades or reduce their cost a little as better ships come out. I don't expect every ship to be 100% competitive, but at least they can be balanced to the point of putting up a decent fight.

10 hours ago, Henshini said:

Honestly, freeing points from preview articles is probably the best thing ever. Now when you read a new card you think of all the possible places you can use it with out having to go though the "is it worth it" equation. You get the freedom to find combos with every card. Who knows, maybe people will even brainstorm the points cost that will make it fair in the forums and the devs may even tweak the points appropriately. The only real downside to the official app is that it will probably never let us proxy things before release.

Also, who's to say the preview articles won't include point costs? (e.g. "At 199 points, the TIE/lf will take up a significant portion of your list, but just watch the look of dismay on your opponent's face when they blow it up, only to find that pieces of debris have pierced their engine housing and destroyed their ship, too!") If the points change before release, people will just chalk it up to the errors that find their way into every preview article.

Even if they don't include costs, people can still guess about the costs. They may even try it at different costs to figure out, "Ok, if it costs X, I'll take it, but if it costs Y, I'll have to do something different."

9 hours ago, Embir82 said:

I agree with original poster at least in one thing: I hate app requirement. I get involved in unplugged games in the first place beceause of the fact that I didn't want to spend my free time staring at the monitor all the time. App requirement for X-Wing 2.0 would be fine if it would come with removal of card requirement - as it stands FFG restricitons made no sense at all - we have to use app, yet we can't go to tournament without redundand piece of paper that brings no unique information at all.
Also worth noting is the fact that with fully unplugged game, like X-Wing 1.0, you will be able to play it long after it stopped being published - with X-Wing 2.0 it won't be possible because sooner or later app will go out of compatibility with operating systems.

Do you need the app outside of squad building? Once you've built your squad, can't you just assemble the cards and play completely with them? Or will there be in-game effects that will reference point costs of specific upgrades?

9 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

That‘s not true because you can print out whatever you want and keep it for future reference.

Or you could even just download it as a pdf, allowing you to reference it indefinitely without having to even print it out!

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I found it interesting when he said that it was the casual part of his brain that objected strongly to 2.0, because I'm the opposite. I'm a completely casual player, and I'm absolutely in love with the idea of 2.0! I got into X-Wing because I wanted to fly ships I liked around, and was always frustrated that the primary lists most people in my area fly are 2-ship lists with high PS and 5-6 upgrades on each ship. Every single turn pretty much goes, "Ok, so all of your ships move, and take an action. Then each of my ships, prior to moving, gets a couple reposition actions for a stress, then green maneuver clears the stress, then I get two more actions, a target lock, and four Evade tokens. Oh, and I get to fire first, in any direction thanks to my turret, and convert three of my dice to crits

That is my experience as well, yet it seems to be a pervasive assumption on the internet that casual, narrative players don’t care about balance while hard core competitive tournament players are super focused on it. That just isn’t what I have seen. Casual players want to play what they want to play and have a decent chance at winning, hence the game needs to be well balanced so any reasonable list has a chance.

4 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

That is my experience as well, yet it seems to be a pervasive assumption on the internet that casual, narrative players don’t care about balance while hard core competitive tournament players are super focused on it. That just isn’t what I have seen. Casual players want to play what they want to play and have a decent chance at winning, hence the game needs to be well balanced so any reasonable list has a chance.

Exactly. I'd clarify that I don't expect that every list I make should necessarily win against someone's world-class, finely honed tournament entry; but at least getting it to the point where my ships will get to do something before they all die horribly would be a welcome change.

Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda .

In other words, never allow a ship to become a high PS arc-dodger with regen, a 360 turret, munitions and unlimited "super" bombs.

I lolled @ that colossal design mistake and then I cried when I saw nothing but that ship at the top tables, for years on end.

13 minutes ago, Keffisch said:

Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda Miranda .

In other words, never allow a ship to become a high PS arc-dodger with regen, a 360 turret, munitions and unlimited "super" bombs.

I lolled @ that colossal design mistake and then I cried when I saw nothing but that ship at the top tables, for years on end.

Miranda would actually be less powerful if she cost 20 points base. It's that fact that she's such an amazing point fortress in the endgame that makes her amazing, on top of her dominance of the early and mid game and access to damage mitigating wing men.

Also, the JM5K was worse than Miranda in just about every way, so her power was blocked for about two years, but after that she was back in action.

17 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Exactly. I'd clarify that I don't expect that every list I make should necessarily win against someone's world-class, finely honed tournament entry; but at least getting it to the point where my ships will get to do something before they all die horribly would be a welcome change.

This point is why I have such a gripe against all the gripers. They complain that now they have all this worthless cardboard, but guess what, they already do. Go ahead and take your quaint X-wings out to a store on even a casual night. More often then not you'll run into someone practicing for a tournament and running some net list that will blow up one of your X-wings before you can say "lock S-foils in attack position". If someone does agree to fly some casual lists against you, great, you can still do that with your 1.0 stuff for years on end. But don't come in here and tell us that your X-wing and Tie Fighter cardboard is all worthless now. Outside of your living room it has been worthless, unless you like playing a game you have no shot in winning.

2 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

Go ahead and take your quaint X-wings out to a store on even a casual ***ht.

Quaint X-wings, notably, that we all are perfectly happy to upgrade for 30$.

But 50$ to update everything? What a disgraceful cashgrab, possibly the most expensive version change ever!!!

4 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

This point is why I have such a gripe against all the gripers. They complain that now they have all this worthless cardboard, but guess what, they already do. Go ahead and take your quaint X-wings out to a store on even a casual night. More often then not you'll run into someone practicing for a tournament and running some net list that will blow up one of your X-wings before you can say "lock S-foils in attack position". If someone does agree to fun some casual lists against you, great, you can still do that with your 1.0 stuff for years on end. But don't come in here and tell us that your X-wing and Tie Fighter cardboard is all worthless now. Outside of your living room it has been worthless, unless you like playing a game you have no shot in winning.

Whilst I agree with you about having lots of useless cardboard, I don't class my X-wings in that. It does depend somewhat on your definition of 'winning' vs 'having no shot in winning'. I'm only a mediocre player but even whilst flying Porkins (The objectively worst X-wing pilot ever printed), I achieved a 50% event win record including some serious tournaments. 9 wins out of 18. Not much worse than my overall record.

You can be rude about the Tie Fighters though!

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Quaint X-wings, notably, that we all are perfectly happy to upgrade for 30$.

But 50$ to update everything? What a disgraceful cashgrab, possibly the most expensive version change ever!!!

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. In terms of cost/physical contents it's one of the best conversions ever, at the very least.

6 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Whilst I agree with you about having lots of useless cardboard, I don't class my X-wings in that. It does depend somewhat on your definition of 'winning' vs 'having no shot in winning'. I'm only a mediocre player but even whilst flying Porkins (The objectively worst X-wing pilot ever printed), I achieved a 50% event win record including some serious tournaments. 9 wins out of 18. Not much worse than my overall record.

You can be rude about the Tie Fighters though!

Porkins isn't the worst X-wing pilot. That distinction would belong to the EPTless either Hobbie or Garven. Garven's even the same price. Still, a 50% win record is quite outstanding using such a pilot.

I'd class the Punisher (whole ship), Quadjumper (whole ship) and E-wing (everything except Corran) as those most behind the power curve. Even so, I've got about a 75-80% win record using Unkar Plutt in my super-control list.

3 minutes ago, Astech said:

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. In terms of cost/physical contents it's one of the best conversions ever, at the very least.

Porkins isn't the worst X-wing pilot. That distinction would belong to the EPTless either Hobbie or Garven. Garven's even the same price. Still, a 50% win record is quite outstanding using such a pilot.

I'd class the Punisher (whole ship), Quadjumper (whole ship) and E-wing (everything except Corran) as those most behind the power curve. Even so, I've got about a 75-80% win record using Unkar Plutt in my super-control list.

Poor Hobbie, all he needed was an EPT slot and he would have been pretty great. Give him Stay on Target, Targeting Astromech and watch him fly.

It is an interesting situation. I love A wings, can't get enough... But will the rerelease of the A wing include a vital upgrade that is not included in the conversion kits? Will I be "forced" to buy more? I'll happily get more A wings, but K wings? No chance..

Otherwise it was a very self entitled rant.

On June 3, 2018 at 3:55 PM, GreenDragoon said:

Another aspect that I find to be misunderstood (e: IF I'm right, and that's yet to be seen) is just how much money we will save with the switch to 2.0. The days of buying the autothruster or expertise expansion, or 100$ palpatine are finally over! Even better, we are now actually able to focus on one faction. I never understood why people are doing so in 1.0, but seemed like I was always in the minority there. So despite all my posts that self-limiting to one faction is pointless in 1.0, I have to adjust that for 2.0 as it is now perfectly reasonable and seems even intentioned by FFG - despite the accusations that 2.0 is a cash grab.

Until you need a new upgrade to be competitive (in the short term, until it is "fixed" ) that is only available in an opposing faction release in this new wave. You buy the other ship to be competitive, then they fix the upgrade after a few months, and then you have more when they release it for your faction in a later wave.

And you already owned both ships!

Business is business folks.