http://geekadd.net/2018/hard-lessons-learned-from-x-wing-2-0/

This is perhaps the best content I have come across discussing the various repercussions of 2e so far. Well written & with reasonable thought out viewpoints. You will agree with some parts & disagree with other parts, but that's okay. The transition to 2e has many factors that affect how well the transition goes. These factors affect everyone differently. We read up on the latest 2e info because we want it to succeed for ourselves & others so the games go on. How will things be different? Quality conjecture like this can help feed the ravenous curiosity many of us have about 2e.

My favorite line, " However…remember the unarguable rule. It’s a sustainable product first, and a game second. "

I think this viewpoint ignores the necessity of a second edition.

Yeah, a lot of things suck from certain viewpoints, but... the game was cancer. Even if the surface level could be managed, there is no telling when a single newly released card would create a (probably rebel) synergy that wrecked the game... And the game had no viable solution to that, with the constraints of 1.0.

There were too many overarching problems with 1.0. Let the past die.

The author WAY overplays the whole "app" thing. Not a word on what led us to needing centralized ability to adjust slots and points or that the app data is also available by website or downloadable and printable PDF. Just whining that he can't memorize everything - poor baby.

"Now you’re telling me my pounds (literally) of cardboard are useless and if I want to keep playing I not only have to re-buy, I have to pay extra?!?"

I may read the rest, but that right there tells me all I need to know. X-Wing 1.0 still exists...

It actually is a pretty well-written article, worth the read...don’t really agree with most of it personally, but there are plenty of valid points.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing or something, but this post comes across super whiny and makes a lot of unreasonable assumptions.

Many of his points are so flawed . There‘s not much reason to go into a point by point rebuttal because he seems rather emotional in his ‚reasoning‘ but I might be wrong there.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Many of his points are so flawed . There‘s not much reason to go into a point by point rebuttal because he seems rather emotional in his ‚reasoning‘ but I might be wrong there.

My main takeaway from it is, he was too emotionally invested in 1.0 and wary of committing the same level of emotion into 2.0.

Which is very fair and a good thing to be aware of when buying a game. (Or anything, really. See how some people feel about their cars.)

And one very good point he made concerns epic and conversion kits: don't buy tons of kits now, wait and see what FFG do for epic first.

1 hour ago, Gilarius said:

And one very good point he made concerns epic and conversion kits: don't buy tons of kits now, wait and see what FFG do for epic first.

The other good point he makes is about FFG needing to do something to ensure people buy subsequent waves.

Interesting read but I'm not really sure what the central point is, at least as far as the general audience is concerned. The complaints about the app were just weird and while it's good advice not to buy a load of extra stuff you don't need I'm not sure how that directly relates tot he new edition. Finally, it really fails to address the primary reason why 2nd edition exists: the game needed a reboot to try to get back to those glory days he mentions (not saying we will go back to the glory days but that's clearly FFG's plan).

I don't know, that just seems like a lot of text saying nothing to me.

Lessons learned from something that hasn't happened yet, and his biggest complaints are about something (the app) that no one will get to use or evaluate until 3 months from now.

He hasn't learned ****.

On point article.

The point of the App section was that list crafting was a very important part of 1.0, and frankly one of my favorite parts. The App really has crippled this section of the game. I feel the app just drains the fun out of this aspect of the game play. When a new card is previewed I know almost instantly where it will fit or not fit in my favorite lists.

On that note, I think the "threat cards" are cancer.

P.S. The title is misleading. It should be "Hard Lessons Learned from X-Wing 1.0 coming to an end" or something in that vein.

44 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

On point article.

The  point of the App section was that list crafting w  as a very important part of 1.0, and frankly one of my favorite parts. The App really has crippled this section of the game. I feel the app just drains the fun out of this aspect of the game play. When a n  ew card is previewed I know almost instantly  w  here it will fit or not fit in my favorite lists.

Maybe we are the strange ones here, but the overwhelming majority here (= where I‘m from. Not the forum, that I wouldn‘t know) already used online squadbuilders and apps.

Either you didn‘t, or your point is entirely invalid.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Maybe we are the strange ones here, but the overwhelming majority here (= where I‘m from. Not the forum, that I wouldn‘t know) already used online squadbuilders and apps.

Either you didn‘t, or your point is entirely invalid.

So tell me, with all the card leaks & previews for 2.0, what does your 200 point Rebel squad look like? Or are you waiting for the app?

I can tell you what I will be using in 1.0 from Saw's.

9 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

So tell me, with all the card leaks & previews for 2.0, what does your 200 point Rebel squad look like? Or are you waiting for the app?

I can tell you what I will be using in 1.0 from Saw's.

Of course you can‘t use the app without the app being released. What‘s your point? That the products are only usable once they are released? Possibly stretching the discovery phase after each release? That is a good side effect in my book.

I think the articles is less about 2.0 and more about the new edition prompting some soul-searching for this player. In that, I can sympathise; I've enjoyed collecting X-wing thus far but it's questionable whether I've gotten enough use out of the game to justify the cost of conversion. It's oh-so-easy to get swept away by a gaming phenomenon but the impending release of a new edition- and the associated buy-in cost- has a habit of forcing you to re-evaluate your investment.

1 hour ago, Jadotch said:

The point of the App section was that list crafting was a very important part of 1.0, and frankly one of my favorite parts. The App really has crippled this section of the game. I feel the app just drains the fun out of this aspect of the game play. When a new card is previewed I know almost instantly where it will fit or not fit in my favorite lists.

On that note, I think the "threat cards" are cancer.

So now when a new card is added to the app you will know almost instantly where it will fit or not fit in your favorite lists. The app doesn't get rid of list building, it expands it, list building becomes more dynamic and knowing the cards, their synergies and their flaws is MORE important when the costs are in flux. This adds more to the list building than it takes away.

Threat cards aren't required, they are to help newer players (or those that don't enjoy the list building as much as you) so they can engage with the core of the game and are introduced to how the cards interact without being overwhelmed right away. I don't see how helping people engage with the game is "cancer".

3 minutes ago, Jadotch said:

So tell me, with all the card leaks & previews for 2.0, what does your 200 point Rebel squad look like? Or are you waiting for the app?

No sense in making squads when:

1) Don't know point costs.

2) Don't know the rules.

I've used different squad builder apps in the past for their convenience but my preferred method is to lay the cards out on a table and use a scratch pad for taking tally. This won't change for 2nd Ed. You'll just need the app for point costs.

Now to the article. A lot of crust with very little filling. Is a second edition needed now? The answer is a resounding MAYBE. Locally the opinion is the current problems could be fixed without a complete redo. But what happens down the road? An FAQ that begins to resemble an unabridged dictionary. Also FFG doesn't need a repeat of a final table mirror match where the competitors left a note saying, "Back at 1:15".

The biggest impediment to a smooth 2nd Edition rollout is going to be the app. Hopefully FFG isn't using the player base to debug that.

I'm sure there will be pockets of resistance where 1st Edition will be played for sometime to come but the majority of players are cautiously hopefull that 2nd Ed. will fix at least some of the problems.

I just hear someone with buyers remorse. You really thought buying 20 X-wings was a good idea?

23 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

I just hear someone with buyers remorse. You really thought buying 20 X-wings was a good idea?

Sounds like a hoarder that is upset that he has to buy 30 conversion kits to convert all the ships he can't fly.

Good read, even if the content and the conclusion seem to contradict: m uch highlighting of the bad side of 2nd edition, but in the end he is excited for it.

I feel like someone wanted to vent off some bad feelings to get rid of them and embrace the change, which is a good thing in the end. Don't get infected with the bad vibes.

In the end, the philosophy of only acquiring what is needed holds true for anything, not only X-Wing 1st or second edition...

"pounds of cardboard (literally) are useless" LOL omg dude go play 40k

I have more dead weight in rulebooks for 40k than youhave for college textbooks. All 100% useless, i keep them because why would i toss them if i have space to store'm?

Almost all this points are flawed, how is this a good read? I want my time back. This was just whining.

Dengar5 is just putting in text what most of us must have went through with the announcement of second edition. The realization that change was imminent, and aprehension about what the trie cost might be to continue forward. When the new edition was initially announced, I was thinking it might be time to get out.

But I got reeled back in when I saw the planned changes to the game. For the most part, everything seemed to make sense and seemed to balance things out. I really like that ships released in the first few waves got retro-fitted with manuevers and abilities that emerged later in version one devleopment. I like the concept of the force, the chance to correct nameless unique pilots and other quirks that happened from having to release things before enough was really known to do so properly. And while the app is not a total answer, I do see it giving a lot of leverage for balancing costs. It also will allow older ships to benefit from new things introduced in subsequent waves, without having to resort to titles and modifcations. That, and with the benifit of the maturation of version one, I don’t think we’ll see nearlynas many new mechanics emerging.

Is everything going to be unicorns and rainbows with the new version? I certainly don’t know at this point. Without the complete rules and even a minimal idea of building possibilites and costs, it’s certainly to early to say. But from what I’ve seen so far, I have high hopes that things will be better. And, to me, a big part of that is faction identity and iconic characters and ships being viable in the game. It seems a lot of effort has been put into the re-boot to accomplish these very things. Enough so, that I was willing to pay the price of entry into the next generation.

Somewhat like Dengar5, I have way more ships than I can possibly use in 200pt matches. But, I occasionally play Epic, and use the minis for the FFG flavor of Star Wars RPGs, so while it was excessive, these ships actually do get used. I’m not sure I see the need to convert everything I own (after the first wave of second edition, I will have 21 tie fighters). I’m certainly going to hold out for Epic conversions to show up, I suspect they will provide additional copies of generic ships in addition to the Huge ship content. This would be a much better approach than trying to fill out massive numbers of ships with the wave one conversion kits.

So, I decided to embrace the change and give FFG the benefit of the doubt that they were creating a superior product. But, while I got to this conclusion, I did go through many of the reservations and concerns Dengar5 did. And, while I came to be a supporter of second edition, I can also see how others in different situations than me might not come to the same conclusion. I do think that enough of us are taking the plunge that many holdouts will have time to see the new edition in action and possibly allay their reservations about moving forward with us.