Today, I was reading an interesting post at The Forge www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php about social encounters www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php.

Someone posted some basic goals for social encounter system design which I really liked :

Social System Goals:
1. Balanced – must not destroy the campaign world, or ability to tell good stories.
2. Meaningful choice – should involve some kind of strategy and depth, not just “roll a single dice and that’s the outcome”.
3. Player and Character Ability – The system should take into account both player choice as well as character ability. This applies to NPCs as well.
4. Inclusive – should involve all players, not just those whose characters are good in social situations.
5. Realistic – Social ability shouldn’t be mind control. It should take into account the personality of the character.
6. Concurrency – The roleplaying and system mechanics should work together, not supercede each other.
7. Fun – The social system must be fun.

I would also add that it have to be non-binary. It's shouldn't be : you failed, you don't convice the lord to help you, you succedded he helps you, but more like how much help can you get from him.

So, haven't had the chance to start my first WHFRP3 game yet, I was wondering how your social encounters worked out so far, how have you make them interesting, is it possible to have something that respect those 7 rules (mostly, at the least), etc.

I want to hear you out, please!

I'll go ahead and post an example that's been modified from a game I've recently run. This is the first "turn" of action, representing about an hours time. I keep rough prep notes as a matter of habit and preference, so pardon if this is a little sloppier than what you'd see in a more professional module! As a note of limitation, I don't use premade adventures at all, so how I do things may deviate from what is standard.

The players are in attendance at a ballroom party of nobles. Their objective is that they are looking for funding and political backing to gain a charter to start up a knightly order from the host, Lord Ulbran. They are also aware that there may be a representative present from a smuggler cartel who would like to see this not happen, though they are unaware of who this may be. Have the players roll Fellowship for social initiative. Make the same roll for the smuggler representative, another for Lord Ulbran, and a final roll for a romantic interest of one of the players (whichever player will likely be least involved with the politics!). The players will need to achieve 7 social graces with the host to make a strong impression and gain his backing. Due to past efforts, they party begins with 2 such progress points.

• Not really knowing how to approach, they players discuss what they should be doing amongst themselves and pull a blank. However, one of them is playing a character with an appropriate lore (nobility) skill, which you have him roll. You decide that this roll represents him socializing with the room, and with 2 boons, he will also pick up through the gossip mill who is trying to shut down their charter. Socializing thusly will take up their action this round.
• For his action, the smuggler representative will begin spreading rumors about the characters (Guile test); if the players have discovered his identity, they may oppose this check (Charm or Guile), otherwise it is at base difficulty 2. Success indicates increased difficulty on future social actions for the party. Two boons indicates such slanderous remarks that their progress is set back a point. Once the doubt has been spread, this agent may either attempt to counter the actions of the PCs, or engage in various other nasy activities in future rounds. If progress is made by the party, he will become more overt.
• For Lord Ulbran's action, he will begin a courtly game. A piper is sent amongst the nobles to play tunes requested by those present. Should he receive the same request twice, the second noble may ask a question of the original patron, who must on their honor answer truthfully. The purpose of this game, from the Lords point of view, is threefold. It adds intrigue to the court while providing what will prove to be a eclectic selection of music. He is also testing the knowledge of his new entertainer. On this, and each future turn of the Lord, randomly another on the initiative track to be approached by the piper who will ask for a request (this includes NPCs, who they players may take advantage of if clever).
• For the romantic interest's action, she is courting one of the nobles. Although she has deep feelings for the PC, her father finds her interest an unsuitable match, and has demanded that she court the man she is now with, a proper knight. She casts a pleading glance at her true romantic interest, undoubtedly her heart is broken, though she dares not act against her father. Have her make a Charm test. Success indicates that her PC love interest will receive a challenge die on all actions aside from proving his worth to her father. For his part, her more worthy suitor is a somewhat skilled duelist, and looking to remove a barrier to his future wife.

The tl;dr is to keep things moving at a brisk enough pace that all feel involved. Try to throw in subplots for non-social characters to keep them engaged in the story (the lover, for example), and use the progress meter to keep track of how well the players are doing, if appropriate. It gives them a visual clue of their efforts, and can also serve to remind them of limited time, resources, or other considerations. Depending on the actions of those in the subplots, this can also serve to add (or remove!) a tick of progress, further involving them. Keep things objective oriented, and don't ever be afraid to ask for social rolls. Players who have spent points in these areas will appreciate it!

This example is for an extended social "scene", and isn't exactly adaptable to a more routine social check that might arise through the course of normal play. It will likely involve several social checks, depending on the actions of the PCs, on a round by round basis. But it takes a scene that could potentially be confusing and gives it clear direction and structure. I've added in some complications to remove the feeling that the players are operating in a vacuum (through the Lord's actions and subplots). Few systems can deal with this as elegantly as Warhammer 3rd ed, by means of both the boon/bane system, social initiative, and the progress tracker. So take advantage of it!

To continue this example, or build your own, simply come up with potential actions of each of the NPCs. Not necessarily on a round by round basis, but more of an "arsenal" of actions to be made when appropriate. Also be flexible enough that some of these items from the action pool may be swapped out on the fly to react to PC involvement.

This thread might interest you.

The thing I don't like about trackers is that's too much binary. You succeed when reaching the end of the tracker, and you don't until you do (does that statement makes sense anyway?).

Maybe you could use two trackers : a time tracker and a success tracker. The encounter ends when the time tracker reach the end. When it happens, you look at the success bar and count how many successes the characters have at this moment (each success moves the tracker 1 up, each failure or opponent success moves the trackers 1 down) and this determine the outcome of the encounter. This way, it's no more binary, it's more of how much they succeed. GM would have written down a table that looks like this :

Successes Outcome

-1 critical failure effect (breaks into a fight, etc)

1-2 x happens

3 y happens

4+ z happens (or x+y happens?)

Checks are opposed checks since it's mostly arguments against someone else's. Throw in some fortune dices if the player's speech is particularly interesting/innovative/good, or some misfortune or even challenge if it's somewhat unimaginative/wrong/bad/pointless.

Whaddya think? Am I missing something? Is this any good?

Comments anyone?

Hmmm. This is a tough one. Social encounters can be a real hassle, and prove to be some of the most awkward moments of an evening.

At a social event, try these tips:

1. Relax. Think positively, take a deep breath and go. You may be alone in there, but it's a party, and you're supposed to have fun.

2. Approach people. Look for a group of people that seem to be friendly. Take a deep breath and go up to them. Smile and ask if you can join them, and they definitely will let you join them if you show a friendly smile. Introduce yourself and please, never forget their names.

3. Be open and just talk. Being shy will never help you. Talk about yourself, ask people about themselves, pay compliments and laugh at their jokes. If you are open and totally relaxed, you will shine. People will instantly like you if you just act yourself around them.

4. Make contacts. Tell them you enjoyed meeting them. If you would like to stay in touch with them, exchange phone numbers or e-mail addresses.

5. Enjoy yourself. After all, it's a party, so forget all the bad thoughts and problems you have; try to be lively, dance, flirt and just act like yourself, even around strangers!

Extra Tips

* When you arrive at the party, do not worry think that when the party ends, you will feel great for what you have done and also have met some new friends. It will just give you a lot more confidence in yourself.

* Try to remember people's names. They will think you are rude if you forget their name. A good way to remember it is to repeat their name in your mind many times, and repeat their name when you talk to them. But don't forego talking to someone again if you forgot their name, just ask for it again with something like "I'm sorry, I forgot your name, what is it again?" Chances are the person won't be upset with you, and may have forgotten your name as well.

edit Warnings

* Do not use drugs or drink too much alcohol, you definitely don't need those things to have fun. Safety is more important.
* Don't attempt to fit in with a crowd you know wont accept you.
* Do not act cocky in anyway, this shows you're over confident and usually causes people to dislike you.

For information on talking with GIRLS, please read the following---

Necrozius said:

Big time laughing.I like it !

Necrozius said:

Is there a card for this?

Silverwave said:

This is not always correct. WFRP explicitly says (and maybe its in the GM kit, though) about different tracks and different ways to use tracks. There are usually 'partial successes' at certain points, symbolized by putting the different space pieces there. You can also use a "tug-of-war" type tracker, although the GM needs to be careful of having a stalement occur. As you suggested, you can use multiple tokens on the same track, one of which can be a timer. You could even use multiple tracks (and track layouts) for the same encounter. Some chase tracks, for example, end when the 'bad-guy' reaches the end of the track, or when the PC's token reaches the bad-guy's token, etc. In the end, it is up the the GM to decide how/when he wants a social encounter to end, whether it is a real-time period, a space (or choice of spaces) on a track, or what have you. Some form of binary is typically the easiest method, but is not the only nor required method.

A success track is not necessarily binary. Following the example of my game, the players achieved 2 successes short of the magic number to get full support from the noble. I took a look at it, and from an story perspective, they did fairly well in convincing him, and managed to influence him quite a bit, although not fully.

I put in a few conditions for the nobles aid. For one, the noble wanted his son in a prominent position with the order they established. For another, he wanted their location to be closer to his own lands so he could have a bit more influence over their activities (and largely so they could benefit him). It wasn't the completely altruistic support the party had been hoping for, so they were forced to compromise. With one fewer success than the ideal turnout, I probably would have only put in one of these two conditions. Any system is only as binary as you make it.

I've realized that a check failure shouldn't decrease the social success tracker since poor social skilled character would want to stay out of the encounter since they would be nuisance to the party's success. We want every character to get involved.

As a GM I've always just roleplayed them and let the characters actions and words affect the outcome.

I am the Lord, come influence me...

Skills like charm can be used to nudge the influence, but do not replace the roleplay.

Edit: I do account for character, social and class standing though.
I would not be negatively affected by a blunt dwarf or over flowery elf, as they are by nature.
Same as I would expect a witchhunter to make barbed hints about the nobility - it is there character.
I would also be more dismissive of the ex-ratcatchers claim of a cultist plot than the knights claims of the same. But even the ratcatcher can persuade me with the right argument.

Stuntie said:

The problem I have with this is that basically, you don't reward players who invested advancements (including starting character points) into social attributes because you just let them role-play (which is good) but without taking into account their stats.

It's a bit like you would just let the players role-play the combat scenes. I think both challenges need good role-play (just throwing dices with no RP in combat is also flat and dull) but also need some structure. Here's why I think, in a social challenge, you need players to do RP, but then depending on their RP AND stats, you make up a pool (with fortunes for good RP, or less challenges, or whatever suits your fancy, and with challenge or misfortunes for bad RP) and then throw the dices and that should decide the outcome of the scene (I prefer using trackers, unless I really want the challenge to be done with a single roll).

you all are taking what i wanted to post

it has to be a mixture of both, roleplay and using skills.
A player, sitting at the table, might be a smart talker and great diplomat, but what if he has a lot more social skills than his character he is playing?

As a GM I restrict his "Real life" skill and let him make skil tests if I think that his character with very low social skill(s) would not even heard about the words the player uses.

I hope you know what I want to say.

It's not really what I do. I do let players with great social skill IRL role play at their best and I do give them bonuses if they had great arguments/ideas/role play. Still, if he plays a poor social character, let's say, Trollslayer, his throw will still be a challenge since his poor stats give don't give him much dice (and the bonus dices are fortune, usually). I never penalise someone with great social skills/ideas IRL !