5 minutes ago, ForceM said:

They will never get them off at low PS. Jake was the only one that was ever relevantly good at it because he could take VI and got another EPT, mostly Ptl, using it to reposition and be action-efficient.

Low PS pilots only ever were good with ordnance with Deadeye. And that’s gone.

and the TAP still has the Grand Inquisitor at high PS that can Arc-Dodge and technically has his old ability, just better, and the force.

so yeah, looks pretty bleak in that comparison.

prockets only require a focus. can launch those anytime they want

A-wing initiative capping at 4 could be a faction identity thing. Rebels build 4-ship synergy and fat turret lists; the Empire has swarms and aces.

In the maneuver-matters 2.0, the humble A-wing blocker just got a new lease on life.

And if Nathan could have it take him to 2nd place at a 1.0 Worlds, none of us have any excuse.

Prockets may be bullseye only, but it's r 1-2. If they're cheap enough, they're going to be devastating at any I if flown properly.

The only actual nerf was that prototype pilot got renamed to the butt of every joke: Phoenix Squadron

8 minutes ago, kraedin said:

A-wing initiative capping at 4 could be a faction identity thing. Rebels build 4-ship synergy and fat turret lists; the Empire has swarms and aces.

Makes sense for a lot of ships like the B or the Y-wing. Or for a certain supportipede shuttle. Of these, just the B caps out at 4 while the others don’t, and thus it can’t be about faction identity imho.

And it makes no sense at all for the A-Wing

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

In the maneuver-matters 2.0, the humble A-wing blocker just got a new lease on life.

And if Nathan could have it take him to 2nd place at a 1.0 Worlds, none of us have any excuse.

Prockets may be bullseye only, but it's r 1-2. If they're cheap enough, they're going to be devastating at any I if flown properly.

The only actual nerf was that prototype pilot got renamed to the butt of every joke: Phoenix Squadron

And if maneuver matters, all the other A-Wing pilots get totally shafted by higher PS maneuvrable ships.

If you want the only use of this ship to be a bumpcar, okay, but that’s a real waste of the A-Wing

It should be more versatile than that, and it was even in 1.0

16 minutes ago, ForceM said:

And if maneuver matters, all the other A-Wing pilots get totally shafted by higher PS maneuvrable ships.

If you want the only use of this ship to be a bumpcar, okay, but that’s a real waste of the A-Wing

It should be more versatile than that, and it was even in 1.0

Your problem isn't that the A-Wing isn't good, the new A-Wing looks very good, your problem is that you want the A-Wing to be something that it is not. The A-Wing is a cheap, disposable, pain in the *** fighter that serves to be a thorn in your side. It is NOT a superiority fighter.

I've never seen the A be anything either than a blocker or an over-priced one-hit wonder strictly inferior to anything the imperials could field for the same cost.

Now it's a better, more relevant blocker, Arvel's unique ability, and Jake doubling up as arc-dodger and support

All while probably not overpaying for missiles.

Variety buff

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I've never seen the A be anything either than a blocker or an over-priced one-hit wonder strictly inferior to anything the imperials could field for the same cost.

Now it's a better, more relevant blocker, Arvel's unique ability, and Jake doubling up as arc-dodger and support

All while probably not overpaying for missiles.

Variety buff

exactly

40 minutes ago, ForceM said:

And if maneuver matters, all the other A-Wing pilots get totally shafted by higher PS maneuvrable ships.

If you want the only use of this ship to be a bumpcar, okay, but that’s a real waste of the A-Wing

It should be more versatile than that, and it was even in 1.0

ummm... aside from Jake/Han the A-Wing was always a bumper car or to be used as a decoy or interference piece.

I always flew a-wings under the theory that they should not be the most dangerous thing in the list, that they should be a compliment to the list meant to harass the enemy and get in the way of their plans. If they decide to ignore them while going for the "bigger target" I can nibble at them until they fall. If they decide to chase the A-wings I can punish them with my heavy hitter. They should not be flown under the idea that they are the Rebel's Tie Interceptor.

28 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Your problem isn't that the A-Wing isn't good, the new A-Wing looks very good, your problem is that you want the A-Wing to be something that it is not. The A-Wing is a cheap, disposable, pain in the *** fighter that serves to be a thorn in your side. It is NOT a superiority fighter.

If the PS1s are good at blocking, fine.

But Jake has no role to play at all at PS4. And Arvel has a freak ability that falls under the category « fun but meh ». The kind of thing you play once to try it and then never consider it again.

This Role or that Role, it doesn’t matter for the named pilots in this case.

If a ship like Jake can not Arc-Dodge, he will be utterly useless. Action efficiency or not. There is no more big token stacking and no more Autothrusters. 3 green dice are worth less than ever. Offense got a bit weaker, but defense probably more. The only way to survive long enough for him to earn back points in a useful way is surviving, which he will not if so many pilots move after him. And lining up a Bullseye for Prockets is also nigh impossible with lower PS.

So you can categorize it however you want, if it’s not good, categories won’t change it!

If Jake cannot arcdodge, he can support

Support != Utterly useless

Action efficiency != Utterly useless

We're also assuming we won't see I < 4 very commonly, though that could easily be the case if FFG truly makes you pay more for higher I

2 minutes ago, ForceM said:

If the PS1s are good at blocking, fine.

But Jake has no role to play at all at PS4. And Arvel has a freak ability that falls under the category « fun but meh ». The kind of thing you play once to try it and then never consider it again.

This Role or not Role, it doesn’t matter for the named pilots in this case.

If a ship like Jake can not Arc-Dodge, he will be utterly useless. Action efficiency or not. There is no more big token stacking and no more Autothrusters. 3 green dice are worth less than ever. Offense got a bit weaker, but defense probably more. The only way to survive long enough for him to earn back points in a useful way is surviving, which he will not if so many pilots move after him. And lining up a Bullseye for Prockets is also nigh impossible with lower PS.

So you can categorize it however you want, if it’s not good, categories won’t change it!

Why do you think Jake is unusable at PS 4? That's higher than most pilots in the game, and with his killer new ability he and an ally can get free focus tokens and still reposition or lock. Jake and a Wingman can both barrel roll and boost and still have a focus to fire their prockets.

Arvel has seen a nice buff as well, as now he can block higher PS ships and boost into lower PS ships, allowing him a range 0 shot without return fire. He won't fail a boost either, making him a bit more slippery in those tight spaces.

Jake doesn't need to arc dodge to be effective, he can pass off two focus actions a turn to his allies. Not only is this a powerful ability, but it fits very well with his "Sage Instructor" title. If you want to fly an Interceptor then go fly Fel, the A-Wing is NOT that kind of ship. We already have that kind of ship, why should there be another?

I think that he's right in the sense that if a player can only block with I1 ships, and can only dodge arcs with I6 ships, and don't value support pieces, then Jake is indeed useless to that player. However, if you are capable of adjusting to the tactical situation in front of you and you value action economy in your list, well then let me introduce you to my good friend Jake

A now can barrel roll, so they are better blockers than before.

Jake is not going to be an arcdodger ace, because arcdodging two get 2 dice attack is not worth it.

My take on the A is as a cheap ordenance carrier, that can survive just enough to hit once hard and buy time for your heavy fighters to finish the job

An A-Wing as a support ship? Well okay if it doesn’t cost more than a vanilla sheathipede that can coordinate you... Or take Fenn in said shuttle, who can also support you better.

No indeed i don’t see a lot of value in that because Rebels have many other support pilots and ships that are much more versatile.

I can’t see them lower the price enough for a mid PS A-Wing to justify him as a support ship.

And when I hear Prockets...

Guys you pretty much need to move last in order to get them into the Bullseye arc, unless they’re really epic bad players.

So there’s versatility lost, not gained on the A-Wing.

If you’re okay with just having a PS1 blocker in the A-Wing, well then fair enough.

In my eyes that’s a total waste of this ship if it’s only going to be bumping at PS1 all day long

It could have done more tasks than that pretty well with more than 2 named pilots, and at least I5.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Your problem isn't that the A-Wing isn't good, the new A-Wing looks very good, your problem is that you want the A-Wing to be something that it is not. The A-Wing is a cheap, disposable, pain in the *** fighter that serves to be a thorn in your side. It is NOT a superiority fighter.

Por que no los dos?

Now that the A-Wing isn't paying a 2 point tax on all their missiles and gets multiple missile shots, it's similar to the M3-A in being able to fill either roll depending on how you kit it out and which pilots you take.

Being able to barrel roll finally means they actually get better at both blocking and arc-dodging, again depending on your build and the matchup. Jake can be a decent blocker if he's outmatched on initative, blocking the opponent and giving a free focus to his friend that's shooting at the blocked ship is nice flexibility.

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

And lining up a Bullseye for Prockets is also nigh impossible with lower PS.

This will depend on the target.

High-PS small ships, sure. You will have trouble getting them in arc. As it should be.

Low-PS ships, and large/medium base ships? Much easier to line up in that bullseye arc, especially now that they can't boost and barrel roll like they're Soontir Fel. Bullseye secondaries are tailor-made to hunt down the larger prey.

Also, why are you assuming they won't keep the extra EPTs? We know absolutely nothing about their upgrade bar.

6 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Also, why are you assuming they won't keep the extra EPTs? We know absolutely nothing about their upgrade bar.

That's a good point, although so far the Talents revealed aren't nearly as impressive or essential as they were in 1st edition.

5 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

That's a good point, although so far the Talents revealed aren't nearly as impressive or essential as they were in 1st edition.

Yeah, which would be nice... But the crew upgrades are frankly insane.

System on the other hand got neutered.

10 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

That's a good point, although so far the Talents revealed aren't nearly as impressive or essential as they were in 1st edition.

There's a lot of redundancy in the talents. Predator and Crack Shot are both basically, "You have an easier time shooting things in your bullseye arc." Marksmanship is similar, but you hit things in your bullseye arc harder. Juke is probably the best of the lot for ships with an evade action, as it works with your entire arc. Considering how similar these talents are, it'll be interesting to see how they get priced.