Contents of rebel conversion kit is upon us, and as one can guess generic stuff will be the same in all of kits we already know all the bang for the buck we will have to use in first few waves. I need more info on explosion effects to say anything about bombs, but rockets and torpedoes are open for investigation. (Following opinion has no info on points costs, so is 80% worthless, but stay with me :D)

Most solid and reliable options for sending heat seeking gifts seems humble Proton Torpedoes, they kept their dice and bit of modification, but gained a extra charge, and if my X-wing experience made me realize something its hard to launch TL required ordnance once, twice is a miracle. Other winner is clusters, as they became missile of choice for use vs swarms (don't get me started on new concussion missile, I'm trying to unsee that horror). Also they get whooping 4 charges for combo with saturation salvo and chopper Astro (now trying to remember ship with astro and missiles in rebels).

Protons and APT are also interesting,but range and arc limits make them slightly worse choices (again, if ATP costs same or less as regular TP it whole new ballgame. New homings are kinda sad, if it was 2 damage, or simply a single crit... now choice is too easy, making them only useful vs Interceptor or like. Imagine shooting homing missile at Ghost or decimator.... Too much dead machups to live.

With all the stuff in rebels kit you can create pretty decent alpha strike lists, with so many ways to dive out actions, but it will be Humble proton torps for now.

I think it's interesting we don't see more torpedoes. We seem to only have the Generic, which is the PT which has good accuracy and strong damage potential with a built-in mod but not good up close. We have the Ion variation, which is literally just PT but now you do 1 hit and turn the rest into Ion Tokens, though it can ion large ships with it's dice pool. And then you have the "big damage" option with APT, which is quite range limited but has more dice, and modification options. Also unlike say, HLC or Prockets, is your full Primary Arc, not bullseye only. Probably why it's just R1.

Missiles tend to be more flexible - they generally have smaller dice pools but more charges. They all have a bonus effect as opposed to inherent mods such as AoE, Bonus Attack, Ion or the weird bluff damage effect of Homing Missiles. The only exception is their big punch option, Prockets. On the other hand, this means you probably need to think about what you're doing with Missiles more. You can't snap off Concs willy nilly.

I wouldn't be surprised to see less upgrade quantity in conversion kits than in 1.0 as a whole, and I mean beyond 'poons not existing.

Even as a conversion kit, we're going to have less options at the start of the game than at the end of its lifecycle (plus it fits into streamlining the game a bit by not overwhelming people with tons of ordnance options)

So far, I'm actually really liking how Torps are largely just big "no nonsense" wads of dice while missiles are incredibly fiddly bastards with all their unique effects and restrictions.

Just hope all the ion stuff is significantly cheaper than the wads of damage, or they'll never get used (esp with this annoying "first hit/crit does damage, everything else does ion").

We can compare torps vs missiles now:

Pure Damage Long range: Proton torps and conc missiles have the same range, torps do more damage, while missiles have more charges. Also The hit->crit mod for missiles is better that the PT for it has the posibility to affect other ships. They seem fairly equal

a) PT: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, hit->crit

b) ConcussionM: 3 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, expose crit on ships at 0-1 from target (so is like a hit->crit for the primary target).

Pure Damage Short range: Both have the same damage potential, yet PR needs only focus instead of TL (easier to shoot) and has better range that APT. Here rockets look better than torps.

a) APT: 1 charge, R 1, 5 dice, TL, hit -> crit

b) PR: 1 charge, R 1-2, 5 dice, focus

Ion Torp dealers : Again torps have more raw power, while missiles have more charges, in this case however there is no extra benefit for the missile to compensate for the lower dice, so my money is on the torps.

a) IonT: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, 1 damge + ion tokens

b) IonM: 3 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, 1 damage +ion tokens

Other missiles: cluster missiles offer and anty swarm tech while HM feels useful against high agility targets (not that much I guess). Anyway torps do not have any comparable card.

ClusterM: 4 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, attacks twice (second target without TL).

Hm: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, 1 damage or gamble.

OverallI feel like torps are strong hitters against low agi targets and more alpha strike oriented. While missiles feel like an option to improve a bad primary attack against difficult to hir targets (like an a-wing o z-95 attacking an interceptor at range 3). In both cases ordenance feels more like something you spend some points to fill a list than building an squadron around it

57 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

We can compare torps vs missiles now:

Pure Damage Long range: Proton torps and conc missiles have the same range, torps do more damage, while missiles have more charges. Also The hit->crit mod for missiles is better that the PT for it has the posibility to affect other ships. They seem fairly equal

a) PT: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, hit->crit

b) ConcussionM: 3 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, expose crit on ships at 0-1 from target (so is like a hit->crit for the primary target).

Pure Damage Short range: Both have the same damage potential, yet PR needs only focus instead of TL (easier to shoot) and has better range that APT. Here rockets look better than torps.

a) APT: 1 charge, R 1, 5 dice, TL, hit -> crit

b) PR: 1 charge, R 1-2, 5 dice, focus

Ion Torp dealers : Again torps have more raw power, while missiles have more charges, in this case however there is no extra benefit for the missile to compensate for the lower dice, so my money is on the torps.

a) IonT: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, 1 damge + ion tokens

b) IonM: 3 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, 1 damage +ion tokens

Other missiles: cluster missiles offer and anty swarm tech while HM feels useful against high agility targets (not that much I guess). Anyway torps do not have any comparable card.

ClusterM: 4 charges, R 2-3, 3 dice, TL, attacks twice (second target without TL).

Hm: 2 charges, R 2-3, 4 dice, TL, 1 damage or gamble.

OverallI feel like torps are strong hitters against low agi targets and more alpha strike oriented. While missiles feel like an option to improve a bad primary attack against difficult to hir targets (like an a-wing o z-95 attacking an interceptor at range 3). In both cases ordenance feels more like something you spend some points to fill a list than building an squadron around it

Prockets only work in the bullseye arc, so they are not exactly easier to fire.

Also... Saturation Salvo looks amazing. 2 re-rolled dice? pretty cool. If any of the heavy ordnance carriers catch you in sight, you might be in big trouble. A single volley of Saturation Salvo + Cluster missiles has good chances of clearing 2 TIEs. It costs all your charges, sure, but it is still pretty incredible.

A bomber ace, preferably one with some offensive ability, we hopefully get one or two, can bring serious pain down on anyone. You better dodge that arc...

And then the Punisher. Saturation salvo, FCS, the new, better dial, boost --> lock... It's scary. With a medium base, it could become a serious alpha striker, and it is the most mobile of any heavy ordnance carrier. (as it should be). + Whatever Redline's ability is, at Initiative 5.

Ordnance will be scary for sure, and for the first time in forever... maybe all ordnance carriers will be relevant.

A-Wings can zip around with an excellent dial and concussion or cluster missiles giving them an extra dice for a fair number of attacks. It's not like they are going to live much longer.

TAP-s will have generic inquisitors with Instinctive aim, basically firing missiles for free, and a pretty great dial as well.

Bombers have barrel-roll lock, and reload, allowing them to get saturation salvo as well. They are like mini Punishers ( I know it's the other way around. Shutup ).

Y-s also get reload, and a GREAT dial with their special astromechs, or regeneration. They probably won't be a high priority target, and their added survivability will benefit them greatly. Not many ordnance carriers will be able to regen, and getting off one more shot can mean the difference between a win and a loss. After an attack run, Y-s can reload, regenerate, and prepare for a second attack run, protecting their escape with their cannons. Pretty cool.

Advanceds, X-Wings, B-Wings, and other jouster type ships benefit the least, but if you have the points to spare, ordnance seems like a valid option to diversify your offense, or grant you some control tools. (Remember, Ion also restricts actions now!)

The Kimogilla is a beefy ordnance carrier, and if you do manage the bullseye arc (Expert handling is your friend), you will surely cause some pain to large and medium ships. Alternatively, saturation salvo is still an option. Also, astromechs.

Gunboats pretty much need no explanation. They will become more spammy, since their offense is capped, but saturation salvo is still pretty great on them.

The K-Wing and the Scurrg can burn in a pit of cobras. But they will be probably fine too. The K-Wing will most likely keep its impressive array of upgrades, and native (now balanced) regen, while the scurrg also has probably some nice slots. ANd turrets.

Well, for Xs, Bs and Es, the standard torp lets you get an equivalent to how say an A-Wing can just benefit from concs, you get 4 dice at range 2-3. With Xs and Es especially the lock requirement isn't too bad with like, R3s. And with inherent mods! Bs and Us will want help from crew or gunners maybe? Assuming the U even has a torpedo slot in 2E that's basically future proofing+faction theming in 1.0.

TIE/x1 I am less sure on, because it has the new ATC for pseudo 3 dice - you probably pick a missile to flavor. Like Procket Vader. Or use Homing, since that would give you more dice but I think has a very specific use generally.

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Prockets only work in the bullseye arc, so they are not exactly easier to fire.

Well, for Jake Farrell they'll always be super easy to trigger, with the perpetual caveat that he can only use them once.