It was clear that FFG wave-smothered X-Wing 1.0 into the ground over the years causing the need for a serious fix or reboot. Whether 2.0 is going to solve everything is yet to be seen, but the premises looks good. However, what is going to keep FFG from ruining 2.0? The X-Wing App is not going to be a fix-all or cure-all? Sure they can just make it impossible to afford a specific card, but that is a cheesy approach. So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

Building in the ability to adjust point costs ongoing is a great step forward in KEEPING a game healthy as it grows. It will all depend on FFGs use of this ability. The fact that FFG came up with the idea and spent resources to develop the app are promising signs to me.

Not to mention, leaving upgrade slots off the pilot cards allows them to add or remove upgrades as needed. So, let's say a ship became way too much of a threat with 3 modifications and torpedoes and a specific pilot ability. They now have options! They can boost the costing of the individual upgrades for the combo on this pilot specifically or just reduce the amount of modifications the ship can take on a pilot to pilot basis.

I don't think that "wave smothering" was the problem. Certain choices were made in the design process that caused problems as more and more ships were added. One example is the movements allocated to ships. No 1 straight for Ties and no native barrel roll for the X-wing are two examples. Not a problem early on but the desire to make ships unique by giving them unique movements highlighted the problem later in the game. That's why the "patches" for the X-wing.

The cost of ships and upgrades was another source of problems as the game progressed. No big deal early on but became more noticeable as the game aged.

Hopefully with this new edition they corrected these problems.

An example of fixes the app can do is making that terrible Expose card cost only 1 or even 0 points! Or, original Palpatine would not have been a problem at 12 points.

A lot of what they're doing with 2.0 helps to provide longevity, as others have mentioned.

That said, edition revisions of ongoing miniature games are basically inevitable. Some go longer between, some have shorter periods before a change but eventually it happens (unless support for the game is stopped, doesn't have ongoing releases, etc).

I'm not sure I mind a v3.0 in 6-8 years if there's enough design evolution to warrant it.

3 hours ago, spacesound said:

So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

Destroy the entire world right now. No game lasts forever without revision.

I came here looking for someone saying "maybe wait until 2.0 actually comes out before worrying about a 3.0"

I'm genuinely surprised that hasn't happened.....

Even video games, which allow for absolutely complete remakes without a whole new version will often nerf a component into the ground until they can spend the time on a remake: look at League of Legends. The devs there have publicly admitted leaving certain champions competitively unplayable for long lengths of time because their abilities were too hard to balance properly. Pricing something out of the competitive meta is a totally viable way to correct mistakes. I'm sure some users would be pleased if Gunner Luke were completely priced out of tournament play.

If the game keeps being succesful, i can see 3.0 (and 4.0 later on) coming out in 6-7 years. That's miniature games for you, sometimes you need to hit that reset button. I don't mind.

Effect.

Have pilots, ship stats, and all upgrade cards be app only. That way everything is adjustable.

37 minutes ago, dtenchi said:

Have pilots, ship stats, and all upgrade cards be app only. That way everything is adjustable.

Why not have the whole game be app only then so the models, base sizes, templates and dice can be adjusted at will too ?

The most important thing we can do is play. Play 1.0. 1.x, house rules. Then.... when 2.0 arrives, play that, too. And My Little X Wing. And X Wing: Rising Tide.

Play more. Worry less. Enjoy the drive, or you'll miss out on the best part....

16 hours ago, spacesound said:

So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

No such thing. If there needs to be a reboot, then so be it.

2.0 is essentially my 5th Star Wars game in 23 years. Star Wars games come and go.

2.0 is expressly set up to give the design team needed tools to adjust the game on the fly to changes in the meta. That inherently improves longevity. The mechanical changes address basically every issue that had come up since 1.0 was released. And to top it off a LOT of the ships and upgrades have been rebalanced - I look forward to using the new T-65 X-Wing which looks to be a first class citizen again.

17 hours ago, spacesound said:

It was clear that FFG wave-smothered X-Wing 1.0 into the ground over the years causing the need for a serious fix or reboot. Whether 2.0 is going to solve everything is yet to be seen, but the premises looks good. However, what is going to keep FFG from ruining 2.0? The X-Wing App is not going to be a fix-all or cure-all? Sure they can just make it impossible to afford a specific card, but that is a cheesy approach. So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

There are two possibilities: either 2.0 dies after a period of time, or is rebooted after a period of time.

There are no other scenarios.

17 hours ago, spacesound said:

It was clear that FFG wave-smothered X-Wing 1.0 into the ground over the years causing the need for a serious fix or reboot. Whether 2.0 is going to solve everything is yet to be seen, but the premises looks good. However, what is going to keep FFG from ruining 2.0? The X-Wing App is not going to be a fix-all or cure-all? Sure they can just make it impossible to afford a specific card, but that is a cheesy approach. So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

Nothing. Exception-based rule sets always build toward a point where the rules get too bloated and things need to be reined in, cleaned up and consolidated. You see this in 2.0 with Reinforce going out to a lot of ships, Extra Muntions being stapled to missiles, and mobile arcs pushing out turrets.

They will have more new game ideas. Some of them will be amazing. Some of them will be amazingly bad. It will have to get cleaned up again at some point. 40K is on 8th Edition. D&D is officially on 5th Edition, but is at about 8 as well, depending on how you count. In 5 or 6 years, they’ll probably have to update it again if they still have the license. Set aside $300 for 2024 or so.

They'll do a 3.0, for sure.

The elephant in the room is the ship waves. They'll re-release all the existing ships, add in new ones from the new movies and TV shows, and then when they're pretty much milked dry, they'll do 3.0. Re-release everything with new cards, new looking dials, so on and so forth. Because what they REALLY want is us to keep buying more stuff, not to have a great game with longevity. It's the problem 40K ran into. Once you have a large army, then you stop buying stuff. Maybe a new unit once every six months or so, but you're not dropping $200+ a month like you were when you started the game.

Same thing here. People will buy like mad now in second edition. People are already looking at hundreds of dollars for the conversion kits, then there will be the 'alternative conversion path' that FFG mentioned (I'm thinking wave specific conversion kits) and they'll buy the new models because some of them will have cool resculpts or they'll have upgrade cards the players want, which will drive sales. But soon (well, in five or six years) all the ships will be re-released and the new content mined out and the sales will drop.

And then we'll see 3.0.

9 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

Same thing here. People will buy like mad now in second edition.

I'm buying like mad all the cheap ships from the rage-quitters

14 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Effect.

Perhaps this really all about the emotion that an edition has when it is rebooted.

The system needed a reboot, that was obvious. The power creep was getting out of hand.

The older ships just couldn't be flown. Playing HOTAC, I like being able to fly T-65s against Ties.

The great thing about v2 is they have all the ships for R/I/S factions in front of them.

They can now line them up from weakest to strongest and adjust each mod/ability with regard to the lot.

This should allow you to fly any combination of ships against each other. More weaker ships against less stronger ones, that is.

The focus will now shift to FO/Resistance ships for the next few waves. Cashing in on the SW movies and animated show.

They probably will insert reprints from v1 ships between new ship waves.

We will see a v3 in the future, it is a certainty. The FO/R waves will fall victim to the same fate as v1 ships.

The app will help and may put the revision off longer, but it will happen.

New gimmicks/talents/weapons will be introduced and they will try to retrofit older ships...

I personally like the idea of focusing on flying over card management and have invested in all three kits.

I think I am through though as the ships I have are varied enough for casual play. Not at all interested in FO/R factions/ships.

I doubt they will mesh properly with the I/R/S factions. I feel they will be shoe horned into the line-up if they try.

3 hours ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

Perhaps this really all about the emotion that an edition has when it is rebooted.

On 5/31/2018 at 7:54 AM, spacesound said:

It was clear that FFG wave-smothered X-Wing 1.0 into the ground over the years causing the need for a serious fix or reboot. Whether 2.0 is going to solve everything is yet to be seen, but the premises looks good. However, what is going to keep FFG from ruining 2.0? The X-Wing App is not going to be a fix-all or cure-all? Sure they can just make it impossible to afford a specific card, but that is a cheesy approach. So, my concern is how to prevent 2.0 from needing a reboot?

Outside of people not being interested in the game anymore there is nothing to suggest that the game won't see another reboot. As the game mechanics get more defined and evolve sometimes the base needs to be reexamined. So yes Virginia there will be a 3.0.