Just now, GLEXOR said:

Huh, so it is. It seems I just misinterpreted the interaction.

I had to go back and read them. First glance over them, I was kinda unsure.

Heavy Laser Cannon is bullseye arc only, did we know this already?

7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Leebo: After you defend or attack, if you spent a calculate token, gain 1 calculate token.

C-3PO: Before you roll defense dice, you may spend 1 calculate token to guess aloud a number 1 or higher. If do and roll exactly that many evade results, add 1 evade result.

If that's 1E timing, I'd totally say you get to gain a calculate token from Leebo if you spend one for C-3PO. It's still "you spending a calculate token" in both cases. Is there a source for why this timing specifically doesn't work?

Also note, it is not "Once per round ..."

Deleted ... Double post

59 minutes ago, kraedin said:

That's pretty scary analysis. If *two* kits isn't enough to run 8 bandit squadron pilots, then two imperial kits probably isn't enough to run 8 academy pilots. I'd probably be out if I need to buy 3 kits.

What if two kits ends up being enough to run 4 Academy pilots and 4 Obsidians, or 4 and 4 of Talas and Bandits?

3 hours ago, papy72 said:

...and there is the English version of gunner Luke...

Oh boo-hoo.

Look at someone like Bistan -- this really helps to show just how high the opportunity cost of Luke is (not even knowing the point-costs). Sure, you could take Luke to rotate your arc as insurance against High PS arc-dodgers... but then you're not making two attacks per round, which will be possible with other Gunners who are likely also much cheaper than Luke (e.g. Han or Bistan). Which means a Luke Falcon (or YT-2400, maybe) is maxing out at only 50% of the offensive potential of a Bistan or Han ship...

That is a huge opportunity cost.

It’s not boding well though that while you can field X copies of a ship it’s not necessarily the pilots you want copies of. IE I really feel what they have done here is count the plates. 4 Z’s=4 plates not 4 full converts. This is seriously going to piss people off and make the value of conversion kits drop sharply. I am hands down getting a starter but I may hard pass on the conversion kits. They are looking more and more like the scam people knee jerked them to be.

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Boushh said:

Heavy Laser Cannon is bullseye arc only, did we know this already?

High PS barrel rolling required to use then.

Just now, Jadotch said:

If the YT-2400 has a crew slot ...

Yeah. I kinda hope it has a crew (or a crew or gunner option)... I find the gunner slot kinda boring. The more I think about it, the more I dislike it. Gunner slots are just dull. I want to do things other than make my ships shoot better.

4 minutes ago, Squark said:

I'd say wait for the timing chart before calling it, but I lean toward it working like you say. That being said, Leebo pretty clearly only refunds one calculate token each opportunity even of you spend two, so you can't have 3p0+regular calculate everytime.

Which is good, because that would be dumh, frankly.

Yup. And with a 4-red primary, it seems like you might want to spend two on an attack sometimes. But still, having at least one token for every attack is really nice.

Just played some with an online dice calc. Spending a Calculate on C-3PO to guess 1 is better than saving it on 2 defense dice, but with 3 defense dice, the calculate token looks better used to convert a focus. That makes sense. The chance of rolling exactly 1 evade on three dice {3*(3/8)*(5/8)*(5/8)} is smaller than the chance of rolling at least one focus {1-(6/8)^3}, but it's not too different.

Anyone do that math on Nuevo 3PO versus just saving the calculate token? Even on a 2-dice ship aren’t you more likely to just be able to use the token? Obviously you can still call it when you need max +1 evades to survive, but... that seems not great.

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Oh boo-hoo.

Look at someone like Bistan -- this really helps to show just how high the opportunity cost of Luke is (not even knowing the point-costs). Sure, you could take Luke to rotate your arc as insurance against High PS arc-dodgers... but then you're not making two attacks per round, which will be possible with other Gunners who are likely also much cheaper than Luke (e.g. Han or Bistan). Which means a Luke Falcon (or YT-2400, maybe) is maxing out at only 50% of the offensive potential of a Bistan or Han ship...

That is a huge opportunity cost.

If you have two targets on opposite sides of you. Which also means splitting fire, which is significantly less efficient.

In other news, it looks like Han and Lando are going to be friends again. Lando (crew) received a buff- now no matter what you get something for using him- no chance of missing out completely- and Han (pilot)’s ability works on Lando’s rolls, giving you two shots at getting double paint for Lando.

3 minutes ago, Squark said:

If you have two targets on opposite sides of you. Which also means splitting fire, which is significantly less efficient.

It will most likely work better on the HWK-290 or the Ghost.

2 minutes ago, Squark said:

If you have two targets on opposite sides of you. Which also means splitting fire, which is significantly less efficient.

I thought I heard them say somewhere they wanted to minimize double taps so most of these 2 attack ships have to use different arcs. As Squark said, that is nowhere near as good as a double tap on one target. It’s swarm insurance but with clever flying an easy to dodge ability in 2 ship teams. A 360 turrent would serve you better.

3 minutes ago, Squark said:

If you have two targets on opposite sides of you. Which also means splitting fire, which is significantly less efficient.

Less efficient than double-tapping the same target, absolutely. But still almost twice as good as only firing at one target a round with a ship that's half your points. Gotta kill everything eventually....

Also, note that Bistan double-taps different targets in his same arc, which is a lot easier to set up than Han (though Han's primary benefit is PS-Killing targets before they can shoot, of course, which is a different kind of efficiency in that it potentially reduces damage suffered).


I think people are over-reacting about Luke. Swarms are likely to be far better and more prevalent in 2.0, ranging from Howl-TIE-Swarms to XXXX Swarms and the like. In these match-ups, it's never gonna be surprising or unpredictable where the enemy goes, and making more than an attack each round (even spread across targets) is gonna be important for a big point-sink like the Falcon, which has always struggled against swarms.

5 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

In other news, it looks like Han and Lando are going to be friends again. Lando (crew) received a buff- now no matter what you get something for using him- no chance of missing out completely- and Han (pilot)’s ability works on Lando’s rolls, giving you two shots at getting double paint for Lando.

Whoa, nice catch -- didn't think about Han rerolling Lando's action... sweet! SOLO: A STAR WARS List. Now we just need Bracket as a Gunner ...

Got to say, i’m digging the new Lando crew. You are gaurteeded a token, unlike his old crew card. I may throw him on more ships.

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

.... big point-sink like the Falcon, which has always struggled against swarms.

It actually hasn't in my experience when the Falcon (or Dash) was flown by a competent player , but that was largely dependent on the mobility of those ships which has gone away a bit. So now, it will be contingent on the type of wing mates you can bring.

24 minutes ago, Squark said:

If you have two targets on opposite sides of you. Which also means splitting fire, which is significantly less efficient.

Gotta say, I really don't get why people don't understand this distinction.

If there's no primary arc, these types of upgrades can't double tap. We don't even know if you CAN double tap, though I think the fact that arcs have separate weapon profiles on even primary weapon mobile arc ships like the HWK.

For stuff like the yts, which can only fire one out of each opposite facing arc, Gunner Luke is the default choice by an insurmountable margin.

Bistan at least allows the same arc shot, but still splitting fire AND you need to have a specific token that DOES NOT regenerate automatically at the end of the round.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

For stuff like the yts, which can only fire one out of each opposite facing arc, Gunner Luke is the default choice by an insurmountable margin.

So, you didn't look at Bistan here, who allows for firing twice out of the same mobile arc? In a lot of match-ups, that seems a lot better than Luke. Luke only has an edge over Bistan against High PS Arc-Dodgers. Against low PS or Swarm style lists, Bistan is a heck of lot more utility.

Also, Bistan may cost 4 points while Luke costs 20 points, like we have no idea what the "choice" really will be, but when it comes to the printed ability (what we do know at this moment), Bistan offers more utility in certain kinds of match-ups than Luke. So I reject this notion of "insurmountable default choice."

3 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So, you didn't look at Bistan here, who allows for firing twice out of the same mobile arc? In a lot of match-ups, that seems a lot better than Luke. Luke only has an edge over Bistan against High PS Arc-Dodgers. Against low PS or Swarm style lists, Bistan is a heck of lot more utility.

mentioned Bistan

you need a focus token, which doesn't come back at the end of the round and means you're either bringing along dedicated support or not boosting, rotating etc (unless you're lando, and fully executed a blue maneuver). Infinetly more counter-play opportunities than action-indepedent rotate that regenerates at the end of the round regardless of what you do (unless the core rules stress otherwise).

It's also inefficiently splitting fire and doesn't give you a free token when not in use.

ito ease of use, Luke is infinitely more reliable and flexible.

26 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

In other news, it looks like Han and Lando are going to be friends again. Lando (crew) received a buff- now no matter what you get something for using him- no chance of missing out completely- and Han (pilot)’s ability works on Lando’s rolls, giving you two shots at getting double paint for Lando.

Put C3P0 on there and guess 1.

Just now, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So, you didn't look at Bistan here, who allows for firing twice out of the same mobile arc? In a lot of match-ups, that seems a lot better than Luke. Luke only has an edge over Bistan against High PS Arc-Dodgers. Against low PS or Swarm style lists, Bistan is a heck of lot more utility.

... Except you need to keep a focus token through your first attack if you want to use him. Bistan+Perceptive Co-pilot might work, but the traditional anti-swarm tactics for turrets rely heavily on mobility, so getting Bistan to work leaves you pretty action starved. Which is a good design decision, mind you, but Luke on the other hand improves your action economy and leaves the rest of your build open for other things.

Bistan with Leebo is a thing of BEAUTY

...oh wait, that's calculate

whomp whomp

Generic yt-2400s with perceptive + bistan (assuming it gets a gunner slot) could be cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't see it being nearly as relevant as Han/Lando/Dash or even Leebo with gunner Luke. It's just a vastly easier build to play.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

mentioned Bistan

you need a focus token, which doesn't come back at the end of the round and means you're either bringing along dedicated support or not boosting, rotating etc (unless you're lando, and fully executed a blue maneuver).

It's also inefficiently splitting fire and doesn't give you a free token when not in use.

ito ease of use, Luke is infinitely more reliable and flexible.

Oh gosh, if only there was some way to ensure you get a Focus token when blocked or even a second Focus token...


Airen Craken, Garven, Kyle, Lando (crew or pilot), Perceptive Co-Pilot, Baze Malbus, Coordinate (U-Wing/Sheathipede), ...