18 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You think that's bad? At least the B got badass new pilot abilities

Arcs got a nerfed Norra ability, an (admittedly cool) new Norra ability, ******* Garven (the LEAST cool xwing ability by a country mile), AND we still somehow kept braylens rng bull

Then Braylen himself faffed off to the B to get a badass ability (and ditto Thane to the X). Don't think they're coming back

anyway, B's fine long as it costs the same as the X. Not as manueverable but a comparable statline and a very relevant linked action

Ten Numb is now just a rebranded Keyan, who can spend stress for his 1 agility (<insert vulgar hand gesture here>). And B-Wing Braylen is just v1 Ibtisim, but with 1 more die reroll. There is literally nothing new about the B-Wing pilot abilities, other than including defense roll, and adding a 2nd reroll die. But they did lose Ten Numb’s original abilty, and Nera Dantels has apparently been given the hatchet.

Again, I was hoping for a bit more love to the B-Wing. If they’re just “X-Wing price, spam BBBB again, durr...”, then I’m going to be sorely dissapointed. It should have gotten a red Reload along with the Y.

The Arc-170 is it’s own topic, and not relevant to concerns about the B-Wing other than being a comparison for survivability and dial.

35 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

You think that's bad? At least the B got badass new pilot abilities

Arcs got a nerfed Norra ability, an (admittedly cool) new Norra ability, ******* Garven (the LEAST cool xwing ability by a country mile), AND we still somehow kept braylens rng bull

Then Braylen himself faffed off to the B to get a badass ability (and ditto Thane to the X). Don't think they're coming back

anyway, B's fine long as it costs the same as the X. Not as manueverable but a comparable statline and a very relevant linked action

Shara has Norra’s Ability now

3 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Ten Numb is now just a rebranded Keyan, who can spend stress for his 1 agility (<insert vulgar hand gesture here>). And B-Wing Braylen is just v1 Ibtisim, but with 1 more die reroll. There is literally nothing new about the B-Wing pilot abilities, other than including defense roll, and adding a 2nd reroll die. But they did lose Ten Numb’s original abilty, and Nera Dantels has apparently been given the hatchet.

Again, I was hoping for a bit more love to the B-Wing. If they’re just “X-Wing price, spam BBBB again, durr...”, then I’m going to be sorely dissapointed. It should have gotten a red Reload along with the Y.

The Arc-170 is it’s own topic, and not relevant to concerns about the B-Wing other than being a comparison for survivability and dial.

v1 Ibs and Keyan had worse abilities relative to these superior 2.0 versions and, more importantly, the Bs can trigger these abilities without investing in any upgrades thanks to the linked actions. They're a lot better now, just gotta hope they aren't as ridiculously overpriced as 1.0 ibs and ten were.

They seem not so different on the surface, but in practice I'm sure they'll prove to be far superior.

3 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Shara has Norra’s Ability now

yes, hence "nerfed norra"

Less I relative to PS scaling (Dash was a ps 7, is I 8 ) and in a game where it is FAR more difficult to get a self-sufficient focus + TL (needing outside help is not a good thing).

2.0 Norra's ability is pretty neat

4 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Shara has Norra’s Ability now

Which is highly nerfed with out something like PLT or an ept like expertise which doesn't seem to exist for 2.0. I was really thinking we would see something like expertise but have it limited to the bullseye firing arc, but it seems it's just gone. So Shara's ability is very hard to use to the full extent.

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

v1 Ibs and Keyan had worse abilities relative to these superior 2.0 versions and, more importantly, the Bs can trigger these abilities without investing in any upgrades thanks to the linked actions. They're a lot better now, just gotta hope they aren't as ridiculously overpriced as 1.0 ibs and ten were.

They seem not so different on the surface, but in practice I'm sure they'll prove to be far superior.

First, there is only one linked action. And it’s to barre roll after a focus which Ten Numblander doesn’t even need. Second, Braylibtism’s ability was never really any good due to needing to be stressed on one of the reddest dials in the game. It doesn’t matter if you T-Roll or Focus-Roll to trigger Bralybtism’s ability, when your next maneuver has been telegraphed to your opponent so readily. B-Wings are terrible at shedding stress unless it’s Ten Farlander, in which case you’re still “just a B-Wing...” 8 hit points of ship with no regen/repair, and 1 agility to hide behind. At least the 9-hp Arc can load up an R2 or R5 and give them just a little bit more survivability.

5 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Ten Numb is now just a rebranded Keyan, who can spend stress for his 1 agility (<insert vulgar hand gesture here>). And B-Wing Braylen is just v1 Ibtisim, but with 1 more die reroll. There is literally nothing new about the B-Wing pilot abilities, other than including defense roll, and adding a 2nd reroll die. But they did lose Ten Numb’s original abilty, and Nera Dantels has apparently been given the hatchet.

To be fair, you say that like Keyan wasn't easily the best B-Wing pilot. He had a great ability in 1e. Seriously, one of my absolute favourites in the game. Ten now has that ability but better. I'm super buzzed about flying him.

Even buffing Ibtisam's ability, it's a weird one to keep. She never saw much table time because she just wasn't that good.

I feel like Ten's original ability just might not mesh with the new design philosophy. With the new emphasis on crit effects being important, and automatic dice mods largely gone, an unblockable crit might just have been seen to be too powerful, or simply too unfair.

Don't lose hope on Nera just yet. It's pretty clear there's going to be another two new named pilots when the B-Wing expansion re-releases. I reckon chances are good Nera's ability might reappear, though it might be on a pilot with a different name. Gina Moonsong would be a decent shout, but I also imagine she's going to be the new I5 B-Wing pilot.

There's got to be more upgrades in the pipeline too. I'm wondering if 'Extra Munitions' might eventually reappear as a torpedo upgrade that gives you a red reload action. I know it's not the same as the B-Wing having it natively, but still it might be an option. Either that, or something they're working on for the B-Wing expansion is going to make it obvious why there's no reload action (Nera's ability, for example, would be pretty broken with reload).

Also don't forget we won't know the full picture until we see the slots. B-Wings might get two cannon slots with a discount on cannon upgrades. I'd be down with a super versatile generic packing the option of ion or an HLC shot at a premium.

6 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

First, there is only one linked action. And it’s to barre roll after a focus which Ten Numblander doesn’t even need.

Stress spend for attack, focus for defence. What's not to love?

Alternatively, Jyn Erso crew to make that focus token an evade.

Also, for B-wings, there might be a modification that allows a ship to gain reload in some capacity.

So is it safe to say there is only one pilot card and cardboard of each pilot? So to run 4 Initiative 2 B Wings when you already own the plastic for 4 B wings, you need to buy 4 conversion kits or 1 conversion kit and 3 more 2.0 bwing blisters?

5 minutes ago, TBot said:

So is it safe to say there is only one pilot card and cardboard of each pilot? So to run 4 Initiative 2 B Wings when you already own the plastic for 4 B wings, you need to buy 4 conversion kits or 1 conversion kit and 3 more 2.0 bwing blisters?

I really hope not!

The whole point of a conversion kit is to convert the number if ships they state to 2.0 which surely means being able to run equal PS generics for all the ships stated as well as running the single unique pilots.

21 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

First, there is only one linked action. And it’s to barre roll after a focus which Ten Numblander doesn’t even need. Second, Braylibtism’s ability was never really any good due to needing to be stressed on one of the reddest dials in the game. It doesn’t matter if you T-Roll or Focus-Roll to trigger Bralybtism’s ability, when your next maneuver has been telegraphed to your opponent so readily. B-Wings are terrible at shedding stress unless it’s Ten Farlander, in which case you’re still “just a B-Wing...” 8 hit points of ship with no regen/repair, and 1 agility to hide behind. At least the 9-hp Arc can load up an R2 or R5 and give them just a little bit more survivability.

it's two actions that are linked, though that'll result in some confusing tenses. One pair of linked actions?

Ten is slightly redundant, but with only 1 stress to spend a focus is fine esp at range 3/obstruction, while Braylen is one of VERY few pilots that can target + lock (effectively) with no further investment

Braylen is really good, especially because he doesn't actually need actions for his re-rolls (as opposed to someone like Lando, who gets TL only after fully executing a blue maneuver and only as a free action etc.)

What I wouldn't given to get him back in an ARC

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

You think that's bad? At least the B got badass new pilot abilities

Arcs got a nerfed Norra ability, an (admittedly cool) new Norra ability, ******* Garven (the LEAST cool xwing ability by a country mile), AND we still somehow kept braylens rng bull

Then Braylen himself faffed off to the B to get a badass ability (and ditto Thane to the X). Don't think they're coming back

anyway, B's fine long as it costs the same as the X. Not as manueverable but a comparable statline and a very relevant linked action

I've got to be honest, I don't really give a **** about the ARCs.

Sorry. It's a beautiful model, but between its prequel origins and the awkward way they squeezed in pilots from other ships, it's always felt out of place to me.

Beyond that, you're bang on about Garven on an X-Wing; but I think he's the most exciting looking ARC pilot of the lot. Give him Perceptive co-pilot, run him with Dutch and Shara with R3 Astromech and I feel like you've got the makings of one **** of a list.

I'm just bummed we no longer seem to have R5-K6 as an option for Garven. It wasn't the best card in the world, but he liked that he had the chance to bring his astro with him. Why is Jek Porkins of all people getting so much love in 2e? Promoted from Epic extra all the way to core set, still has his own unique astro

21 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

To be fair, you say that like Keyan wasn't easily the best B-Wing pilot. He had a great ability in 1e. Seriously, one of my absolute favourites in the game. Ten now has that ability but better. I'm super buzzed about flying him.

...

Keyan was the best, although not in pilot skill. But Adv Sensors + Stay on Target Keyan was still an absolute monster. The problem with Ten Numb having his ability isn’t that the ability is somehoe bad... It’s an awesome ability! The problem is still the same one Keyan had in v1... B-Wings can’t dodge for crap. Taking out Farlander was muh easier than something like Jess, Snaps Wexley, or even Wedge. Tycho and Jake live and die by their green dice, sure. But B-Wings have never had access to astromechs, regen, autothrusters with 2+ green dice, or even a forgiving dial. Keeping them cheap just makes them expendable...

Even now they’re a hard-sell over the Auzituck, K-Wing, and Arc-170. Anything they bring to the rebels, is better on somet other platform right now. All three of those ships are more survivable, more maneuverable. Even Y-Wings have a reload, making them better ordanance carriers. The exception is the B-Wing’s cannon and system slots... HLCs are toned down, while control cannons have been bumped up, but still sacrifice raw damage output. System remains useful, but Fire Control has been nerfed.

So yeah, my concern is that the ship hasn’t really changed much beyond getting T-Rolls. If it’s “balanced” by bringing it down in cost, then that just cheapens it and makes it spammier.

6 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I've got to be honest, I don't really give a **** about the ARCs.

you soulless, soulless man

anyway, even if you're immune to the charms of the most beautiful model in the game (due to lack of soul, most likely), the ARC occupies a unique position in rebels as the only rebel aux arc ship in the game.

no not counting the VCX. ***** uses padding

The ARC deserves to be special and cool, especially because the firespray is now exactly that. The Rebel faction would benefit greatly from it being such as well.

Maybe they'll give it a system slot and turn it into some ungodly hybrid of B and Y, which is apparently canonical as it is "Aggressive Reconnaissance"

I just noticed, the skilled bombardier is a gunner, not a crew. Not sure what all that portends, but I thought it was interesting.

I wonder if that means the Striker will get a gunner/bombadier slot over a crew slot...

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

The ARC deserves to be special and cool, especially because the firespray is now exactly that. The Rebel faction would benefit greatly from it being such as well.

Maybe they'll give it a system slot and turn it into some ungodly hybrid of B and Y, which is apparently canonical as it is "Aggressive Reconnaissance"

If it makes you feel any better, Fickle, I love the Arc. I hate the Auzituck and K-Wing on principle, mostly because of how un-fun they are to fly against. But the Arc has been a favorite of mine. I would just really like there to be a reason to fly a B-Wing over the other “rebel heavies” beyond “I can spam 4 Bs in a list!”

1 hour ago, Tbetts94 said:

Outrider will have a Gunner slot except for Dash, Dash builds will be so fat, Dash will be taking up multiple seats on the ship.

The alternate art will be canon, lol.

1 hour ago, Tbetts94 said:

double post, derp.

3 hours ago, Khyros said:

So adding all of the data acquired from this leak, we have now learned 2 things. First, we either have a discrepancy between the count of Pilot Cards we're supposed to be getting, and the pilot cards that we should be getting. Now, the source of the total are from the Spanish and French FFG page, which describes kit contents, for the Rebels it says 84 pilot cards. Knowing what we know now, we should have 94 pilot cards. So either the FFG-esp description is wrong, or it means that we're not getting enough generics for every dial. The second thing we've learned is that you will not be able to run every combination of pilot of a single ship due to the double-sided nature of the ship tokens. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DMqgr3MQPStvLtLQRCLr0b_hcvNz53Sow7IGB7gXN_U/edit?usp=sharing)

Known Quantities	Qty	Size	Dials	Generics	Uniques	Bases	Cards Total	Dial Sq-mm
A Wing	3	S	3	2	2	3	8	10875
ARC 170	2	M	2	0	4	2	4	7250
Auzituck	2	S	2	1	2	2	4	7250
B Wing	2	S	2	2	2	2	6	7250
E Wing	2	S	2	2	2	2	6	7250
Ghost	2	L	2	1	3	2	5	7250
HWK	2	S	2	1	3	2	5	7250
K Wing	2	M	2	1	2	2	4	7250
Falcon	2	L	2	1	3	2	5	7250
Phantom 1	2	S	2	0	4	2	4	7250
Phantom 2	2	S	2	0	4	2	4	7250
Sabine's TIE	2	S	2	0	4	2	4	7250
U Wing	2	M	2	1	3	2	5	7250
X Wing	2	S	2	2	4	4	8	7250
Y Wing	2	S	2	2	4	4	8	7250
YT2400	2	L	2	1	2	2	4	7250
Z95	4	S	4	2	2	4	10	14500
			Accounted Ship Tokens			41	94	Accounted Pilot Cards
			Total Ship Tokens			43	84	Total Pilot Cards

What does this chart show? We won't be getting a full retinue of generic pilot cards. As in the B wing has two generics, a Blue Squadron Pilot, and a Blade Squadron Veteran, but we might end up only getting a single copy of each generic. Though note that my initial look at it and I can't come up with a clean reduction of 10 pilot cards. The two "logical" choices in my opinion are to limit the copies of those who have 2 generic pilots, but that would only eliminate 9 pilots (if we minimized the "ace" down to 1 copy) or 18 (if we minimized both down to 1). The other option would be that for "unique" ships they only include a single generic (Falcon, Ghost, Outrider, Moldy Crow), but that only eliminates 4 pilot cards. Even if we were to extend that to all "1 generic" ships, it would only eliminate 7 pilots.

And as I said for the second point, we won't be able to run every combination of pilot. There are only 2 extra bases to play with, and I would suspect they are probably for the B-Wing and E-Wing. But even with that, you won't be able to run every combination of: A Wing, ARC, Ghost, HWK, Falcon, Phantom I, Phantom II, Sabine's TIE, U Wing, and Z-95. In order to run everything, we would need 53 ship tokens (which is coincidentally 10 more than that's in it - the same as the pilot cards. Conspiracy??)

So I did this analysis this morning, but no fancy spreadsheet. I think your base count is off, though I'd have to review all the numbers. Here was my conclusion, though - if the Ghost, Falcon, U-wing, and Hwk only come with one generic, and the Z95 only come with enough pilot cards for 2 of each generic, the numbers match up with the previously spoiled pilot card and base numbers.

38 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you soulless, soulless man

anyway, even if you're immune to the charms of the most beautiful model in the game (due to lack of soul, most likely), the ARC occupies a unique position in rebels as the only rebel aux arc ship in the game.

no not counting the VCX. ***** uses padding

The ARC deserves to be special and cool, especially because the firespray is now exactly that. The Rebel faction would benefit greatly from it being such as well.

Maybe they'll give it a system slot and turn it into some ungodly hybrid of B and Y, which is apparently canonical as it is "Aggressive Reconnaissance"

I know, I'm sorry.

I did already say it's a beautiful model, though. It really is one of the best in the game. I might also change my mind about them once I've seen them on the medium base, they'll probably look a let less ungainly on the table perched on that little base they had in 1e.

More choice for everyone is obviously better, too. I may not have much of a desire to fly them myself in a world where Wedge has barrel roll, Horton has an EPT and Interceptors might be flyable, but I'd definitely rather the people who want to be able to fly them have the option.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that every faction should have an equivalent to all the ships of the other factions, but I take your point. Something properly decent to use with the rear arc to really set the ARC into its own niche would have been cool. And like I said, I can see great things coming from Garven and Shara.

System slot would be pretty insane. Can you imagine the mad interactions between system, astro, crew and gunner? It would be a nightmare to keep balanced.

6 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I did already say it's a beautiful model, though. It really is one of the best in the game.

Wait, I thought we were talking about that giant, ugly Arc Fighter from the prequels?

Bwings will all depend on their cost. The abilities are good, but like in 1.0, nobody wants 1/3 or more of their list being a bwing. If in 1.0 you can get Braylen for around 50-60pts, that would make him very playable. And if bwings get a crew slot, toss hera on him.

3 hours ago, StriderZessei said:

In all likelihood, the YT-2400 will have one crew and one gunner, tops. Dash's loss of Rey, Kyle/Kanan+PtL, and the nerf to Lone Wolf have made him much less scary. Yes, 5 dice are wicked, but it's highly likely they won't be modded much beyond a focus.

Well, the same is true of the defender. 5 dice modded attacks are going to be pretty darn strong in 2.0. Hopefully those kind of combos will be incredibly expensive, but I wouldn't be surprised if initially they're actually cheaper than previous versions.

7 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Yes, it does. The B-Wing should have been first in line for a Reload action, IMO.

The Punisher should have gotten a reinforce. Alas, that's not how it is.