I'm an impatient guy. I could just wait for FFG to release their app with all the prices, but instead I'm going to make my own SWAG's at their costs. I understand that the card costs can vary by platform, even by pilot. But here I'm trying to chip away at the unknowns just by coming up with a generic 2.0 cost.

In the following write-up, when referring to a 1.0 card cost it'll be listed in the 1.0 scale of 100 points. When I give a 2.0 card cost it'll be listed in the 2.0 scale of 200 points.

TALENTS

Crack Shot: While you perform a primary attack, if the defender is in your [bullseye arc], before the Neutralize Results step, you may spend 1 [charge] to cancel 1 [evade] result. [1 charge]. Analysis: 1.0 Crack Shot was 1 point, but the 2.0 version is restricted to bullseye arc so I'm knocking down the cost. Estimate: 1 pt (on 200 pt scale)

Elusive: While you defend, you may spend 1 [charge] to reroll 1 defense die. After you fully execute a red maneuver, recover 1 [charge]. [1 charge, small or medium ship]. Analysis: 1.0 Flight Instructor allowed a reroll of an [eyeball] result for 4 points, and it was NEVER used. A reroll of a green die isn't as good as a reroll of a red on average, so it seems it should be cheaper than, say, Predator. Lone Wolf allowed red and green rerolls for 2 points, and Elusive could be said to be "half" of Lone Wolf. Estimate: 2 pts

Expert Handling: [adds white barrel roll, red barrel roll required]. Analysis: adding the barrel roll action in 1.0 costs 2 points. Here, you already have to have the red version on your bar. Changing a single action from red to white seems less valuable than 1.0 Vectored Thrusters. Estimate: 2 pts

Fearless: While you perform a [front arc] primary attack, if the attack range is 1 and you are in the defender's [front arc], you may change 1 of your results to a [hit] result. Analysis: This is nearly identical to 1.0 Fearlessness, except it is limited to primary attacks and it changes a result instead of adding one. But I don't think they'd make it cheaper since those adjustments will not often affect the ships most likely using Fearless. Estimate: 2 pts

Marksmanship: While you perform an attack, if the defender is in your [bullseye arc], you may change 1 [hit] result to a [crit] result. Analysis: Changing a hit to a crit and only in your bullseye is not as good as a reroll in your bullseye. So this should be less costly than 2.0 Predator. Should this be the same cost as Elusive, which rerolls a green? I'm initially going to value this slightly higher since in 2.0, a lot of shields have been traded out for hull and the damage deck seems pretty potent. Estimate: 2 pts (down from 3)

Outmaneuver: While you perform a [front arc] attack, if you are not in the defender's firing arc, the defender rolls 1 fewer defense die. Analysis: This is nearly unchanged from 1.0, except now it has to be a front arc (making this mostly useless on turrets... whew!). Also, I think that "defender's firing arc" includes mobile arcs, so a defender can neutralize this effect with a mobile arc on the attacker. In 1.0 this nearly identical card was costed at 3 points but rarely saw play, so I'm going to assume that's too high a cost. Estimate: 4 pts

Predator: While you perform a primary attack, if the defender is in your [bullseye arc], you may reroll 1 attack die. Analysis: 1.0 Predator was one of the most often used cards at 3 points. 2.0 Predator is significantly nerfed, since it is now primary only, bullseye arc only, and doesn't get a second reroll against low PS targets. But it still is a passive attack mod, which is still a powerful thing. Is it more or less valuable than 2.0 Outmaneuver? My going-in position is... Estimate: 4 pts

Ruthless: While you perform an attack, you may choose another friendly ship at range 0-1 of the defender. If you do, that ship suffers 1 [hit] damage and you may change 1 of your die results to a [hit] result. Analysis: Passively changing a red die to a hit is great. Damaging your own friendly ship to do so isn't. Although different in key ways, 1.0 Ruthlessness is 3 points and when used wisely gave you an extra damage against your opponent without hurting yourself. So on that basis, I'm going to estimate that 2.0 Ruthless is less valuable since it has a more complicated trigger that necessitates damaging your own ship in order to get one die modded to a hit (which is not guaranteed to get past the green dice). Estimate: 3 pts

Selfless: While another friendly ship at range 0-1 defends, before the Neutralize Results step, if you are in the attack arc, you may suffer 1 [crit] damage to cancel 1 [crit] result. Analysis: This is fairly similar to 1.0 Draw Their Fire, which only cost 1 point. I'm sticking with that. Estimate: 2 pts

Squad Leader: While you coordinate, the ship you choose can perform an action only if that action is also on your action bar. [adds red coordinate.] Analysis: 1.0 Squad Leader is actually very similar to 2.0 Squad Leader, assuming the Coordinate action has a built in 0-2 range limit. Coordinate is a dandy of an action, but being red makes it less powerful. Since 1.0 Squad Leader was 2 points and this one stresses the leader AND limits actions to the coordinating ship's bar, I'm going to remove a couple points. Estimate: 2 pts

FORCE POWERS

Heightened Perception: At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may spend 1 [force token]. If yo udo, engage at initiative 7 instead of your standard initiative value this phase. Analysis: This is Roark Garnet's pilot ability, except on yourself using your Force Power slot. Roark isn't considered the most OP HWK pilot ability, and assigning it to another ship allows you to boost an Academy up to 7. Acting only on yourself and therefore only working on likely a higher initiative ship that has a Force Power slot, this has a higher opportunity cost. Estimate: 2 pts

Instinctive Aim: While you perform a special attack, you may spend 1 [force token] to ignore the [focus] or [lock] requirement. Analysis: Deadeye from 1.0, which was 1 point. Estimate: 2 pts

Sense: During the System Phase, you may choose 1 ship at range 0-1 and look at its dial. If you spend 1 [force token], you may choose a ship at range 0-3 instead. Analysis: Intelligence Agent cost 1 point in 1.0 but only went out to range 2. Adding the larger bubble of range 3 makes it stronger and is worth... one quarter portion! Estimate: 3 pts

Supernatural Reflexes: Before you activate, you may spend 1 [force token] to perform a [barrel roll] or [boost] action. Then, if you performed an action you do not have on your action bar, suffer 1 [hit] damage. Analysis: Now we're talking! This is similar to 1.0 Advanced Sensors with Push the Limit. You get two actions and end up with no stress. AS+PTL doesn't limit you to just boost/barrel roll for the first action, but SR doesn't limit you to green/blue maneuvers to end your activation with no stress. AS+PTL was 6 points in 1.0. I don't think SR is 12 points in part because the first action can only be boost/barrel roll and also because triggering SR costs a Force token. I'm going to go with 8 points for now, while acknowledging it could be a little more... This seems like a strong force power. This is Advanced Sensors, except limited to boost or barrel roll. It adds these two positioning actions to your bar if you don't have them, but at a steep cost of a damage. But if you can get a force using pilot on a large ship... Anyways, based on it being Advanced Sensors but limited to boost/barrel roll, I'm going to start at a cost just a bit lower than 1.0 Sensors. Estimate: 8 pts (up from 5)

ASTROMECHS

R2 Astromech: After you reveal your dial, you may spend 1 [charge] and gain 1 disarm token to recover 1 shield. [2 charges] Analysis: you can recover two shields and a 1.0 Shield Upgrade costs 4 points. If you took an R2 Astromech as being worth two Shield Upgrades, you’d have a 2.0 cost starting point of 16 points. That seems high. R2 isn’t as good as two Shield Upgrades because: 1) you have to lose shields before you can recover them, 2) it’ll cost you the ability to attack when you recover them, and 3) your ship could explode without a chance to use the mech’s charges. In the 2.0 announcement article, a mock-up of the official app showed R2-D2 as costing 10 points. We can take this with a grain of salt, but I’m just going to take it as gospel instead. If R2-D2 is worth 10 points, what is one less charge worth? I’m going to go with... Estimate: 6 pts

R2-D2: After you reveal your dial, you may spend 1 [charge] to recover 1 shield and gain 1 disarm token. [3 charges, Rebel] Analysis: I’m letting the app mock-up set the cost. Estimate: 10 pts

R5-D8: Action: Spend 1 [charge] to repair 1 facedown damage card. Action: Repair 1 Ship damage card. [3 charges, Rebel] Analysis: Going with mock-up app cost. Estimate: 7 pts

R5 Astromech: identical to R5-D8, except addition of “faceup” in second action... likely a late add clarification. [2 charges] Analysis: What’s one less charge worth? Estimate: 4 pts

R3 Astromech: You can maintain up to 2 locks. Each lock must be on a different object. After you perform a [lock] action, you may acquire a lock. Analysis: Functionally identical to 1.0 Weapons Engineer, which was 3 points. Estimate: 6 pts

R4 Astromech: Decrease the difficulty of your speed 1-2 basic maneuvers ([left turn], [left bank], [straight], [right bank], [right turn]). [Small Ship] Analysis: Nearly identical to 1.0 R2 Astromech, at least at the time R2 came out in 1.0. When it first came out, there were no special speed 1-2 maneuvers and all speed 1-2 maneuvers on ships with Astromech slots were white or green. On that basis, pricing 2.0 R4 identical to 1.0 R2. Estimate: 2 pts

R5-TK: You can perform attacks against friendly ships. [Scum] Analysis: Only good for stunts, just like 1.0 R5-TK. Estimate: 0

Please feel free to bring up any reasons you feel these estimates are too high or low. I am basing these estimates on the assumption that an upgrade in 2.0 with identical power as in 1.0 will simply double in cost going from the 100 point scale to the 200 point scale. If FFG decides otherwise, then of course these estimates will be off. But with that said, I'm interested to see what the forum consensus might be.

I think you're overcosting Elusive. It only having one charge that's diifficult to recharge is hugely limiting. COmpared to LW which works every time you're attacked, it's hugely limited, so I'd put it at 1 at best.

guessing expert handling will cost more or maybe just cost more for the outrider, since for only 2 pts it seems almost pointless they gave the big ship a red barrel roll

You’re analyzing all of these on a 1.0 power scale. I’m not really sure that’s the right way to go about it. Crackshot, for example, is less powerful in 2nd Edition, but if you put 1.0 Crackshot in 2.0 it would be overpowered at 2 points (out of 200). I’d easily except 2E Crackshot to be the same 2 points as a result.

Part of the reason for that is the gradual power creep in 1E. Elusiveness was sorta decent around Wave 3 for two points; but it was crap after that. This makes it very difficult to compare cards to their 1E counterparts, since those counterparts were often not comparable with each other.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I think you're overcosting Elusive. It only having one charge that's diifficult to recharge is hugely limiting. COmpared to LW which works every time you're attacked, it's hugely limited, so I'd put it at 1 at best.

You may be correct, but I find this interesting: you can do a red maneuver, which gives you a charge, enabling a defensive reroll while stressed. Let’s see how other forumites weigh in..

8 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

You’re analyzing all of these on a 1.0 power scale. I’m not really sure that’s the right way to go about it. Crackshot, for example, is less powerful in 2nd Edition, but if you put 1.0 Crackshot in 2.0 it would be overpowered at 2 points (out of 200). I’d easily except 2E Crackshot to be the same 2 points as a result.

Yes, I am analyzing on a 1.0 scale as stated in my OP. I would be delighted if in 2.0 all upgrades get costed at a premium, pushing the game toward more ships and fewer upgrades. But at this point, I went with the safe assumption of equivalence.

46 minutes ago, Skandranon said:

guessing expert handling will cost more or maybe just cost more for the outrider, since for only 2 pts it seems almost pointless they gave the big ship a red barrel roll

But if Dash needs to use up his EPT to do that, I think I'm ok with that.

Looks good! Thanks for the speculating! My one critique is that I think new Marksmanship is horrible, regardless of cost. Changing a hit to a crit was never, I repeat, never good. In a vacuum, it seems ok, but it will always be outbid by cards that straight up help you. I feel its stiffest competition is Crack shot, which also works in bullseye, but gets a guaranteed damage through. If Crack shot is cheaper than Marksmanship, it will never see play. My hypothesis is that Marksmanship is 1 point, and Crack is 2. 1.0 Crack should be 1.5 points, so limiting it to bullseye knocks off 1 point, down to 2. If they make Crack and Marksmanship both cost 1, you still will never see Marksmanship.

1 hour ago, Skandranon said:

guessing expert handling will cost more or maybe just cost more for the outrider, since for only 2 pts it seems almost pointless they gave the big ship a red barrel roll

I am concerned about the return of Super Dash and agree that Expert Handling might be more valuable on Dash. But what do you think EH is worth “generically”?

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

Looks good! Thanks for the speculating! 

You’re most welcome, and thank you for the response!

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

My one critique is that I think new Marksmanship is horrible, regardless of cost. Changing a hit to a crit was never, I repeat, never good. In a vacuum, it seems ok, but it will always be outbid by cards that straight up help you. I feel its stiffest competition is Crack shot, which also works in bullseye, but gets a guaranteed damage through. If Crack shot is cheaper than Marksmanship, it will never see play. My hypothesis is that Marksmanship is 1 point, and Crack is 2. 1.0 Crack should be 1.5 points, so limiting it to bullseye knocks off 1 point, down to 2. If they make Crack and Marksmanship both cost 1, you still will never see Marksmanship. 

You make very valid points. Putting Marksmanship at 1 point (on 200 point scale), would it compete with a 1 point Crack Shot? Crack Shot pushes the damage through, which is more important than hit-to-crit, but Crack Shot is one use only. Also, Marksmanship works on non-primary attacks.

Based on the points mentioned by the devs during some demo games, I do believe the 2.0 Crack Shot is at least starting at 1 point. They mentioned an 84 point Vader build with four Crack Blacks. Doing the math strongly suggests a 1 point Crack Shot.

4 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

I am concerned about the return of Super Dash and agree that Expert Handling might be more valuable on Dash. But what do you think EH is worth “generically”?

not sure, I dont see most ships wanting it and those that do probably have their barrel rolls red to balance the power level, so to turn them white needs to be costed accordingly.

Just now, Skandranon said:

not sure, I dont see most ships wanting it and those that do probably have their barrel rolls red to balance the power level, so to turn them white needs to be costed accordingly.

It does take up a Talent slot now instead of a mod, which means a higher Initiative ship with a Talent slot has to give it up to equip it...

2 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

It does take up a Talent slot now instead of a mod, which means a higher Initiative ship with a Talent slot has to give it up to equip it...

hard to say then as we dont know what would be competing for that slot, what would be the strongest upgrade for that slot for ships like the yt-2400? making that roll white just might be the strongest or in a point conscious list most affordable if you price it too low

3 minutes ago, Skandranon said:

hard to say then as we dont know what would be competing for that slot, what would be the strongest upgrade for that slot for ships like the yt-2400? making that roll white just might be the strongest or in a point conscious list most affordable if you price it too low

You’re right, none of the currently spoiled Talents look like a tight fit for a Dash build. Currently none of the offensive mods work well for a turret shooting anywhere but forward, except for Ruthless (which is Imperial only). That’s an interesting observation.

Ruthless is really really strong. Id expect it almost at 4pts.

Turning a blank to a hit while a lambda is by you to soak damage. I can see this being a popular card for alpha strike type lists that use it for a semi guidance chips to trade like 3 health on a lambda for an enemys ship blowing up.

4 hours ago, J1mBob said:

You’re right, none of the currently spoiled Talents look like a tight fit for a Dash build. Currently none of the offensive mods work well for a turret shooting anywhere but forward, except for Ruthless (which is Imperial only). That’s an interesting observation.

One suspects they're going to try really hard to make Turrets relatively difficult to obtain passive modifiers for.

We'll see if they slip up, but I guess if they do they can at least price the thing punitively instead...

Remember that upgrade costs can now be a function of the pilot / ship now too. So some of these upgrades will be more valuable on certain pilots, which hopefully FFG prices accordingly.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Ruthless is really really strong. Id expect it almost at 4pts.

Turning a blank to a hit while a lambda is by you to soak damage. I can see this being a popular card for alpha strike type lists that use it for a semi guidance chips to trade like 3 health on a lambda for an enemys ship blowing up.

So are you voting for Ruthless to be 4 points on 200 point scale? I see what you're saying with the alpha strike scenario. And Ruthless does work on special attacks (missiles, torps, cannons...). You'd need to get that Lambda within range 1 of the defender, which is still a difficult trigger. But you're right I may have started too low on Ruthless.

3 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Remember that upgrade costs can now be a function of the pilot / ship now too. So some of these upgrades will be more valuable on certain pilots, which hopefully FFG prices accordingly.

Duly noted, thanks. But I suspect FFG will still start with a 'generic' cost for upgrades and change them on certain ships or pilots on an exception basis.

1 hour ago, Reiver said:

One suspects they're going to try really hard to make Turrets relatively difficult to obtain passive modifiers for.

We'll see if they slip up, but I guess if they do they can at least price the thing punitively instead...

I'm glad Han doesn't yet seem able to get some blank-to-hit passive mod to fix any blanks after his rerolls. Maybe Luke gunner and most turrets will hit less hard because they will have few if any passive mods for non-front arc shots.

12 minutes ago, J1mBob said:

Duly noted, thanks. But I suspect FFG will still start with a 'generic' cost for upgrades and change them on certain ships or pilots on an exception basis.

Yeah I have zero insight there.

For some things like crackshot a flat cost makes sense. For something like elusiveness, a variable cost makes more sense.

2 minutes ago, MajorJuggler said:

Yeah I have zero insight there.

For some things like crackshot a flat cost makes sense. For something like elusiveness, a variable cost makes more sense.

Are you thinking Elusive would be a function of a ship's agility, or more dependent on how good the ship's red maneuvers are?

I'm glad Elusive cannot be used on Large ships.

I suspect Predator will be 5 points at least. Actionless mods are something FFG seems to be trying to get away from as much as possible so I wouldn't be surprised if Predator and FCS were both pretty expensive as a result. Abilities that work in the Bullseye arc are going to be interesting because we'll see fewer ships able to double reposition in the new edition, which means dodging those arcs will be more difficult. In addition, even if you can reposition to dodge the Bullseye, you'll likely not have any mods for your own shots either.

I agree about Marksmanship being fairly poor so it should be quite cheap: 2 at the most. Ruthless looks even worse than it is now, IMO. Not sure if even 1 point for that makes sense given the opportunity cost. Also worth noting that, as you're changing a dice result, you have no guarantee you'll even push damage through. So you can damage your own, already fragile, ships for potentially no benefit at all.

There have been a couple people suggesting Marksmanship is over-costed at my original 3 point guess. I’ll be editing the OP to reflect an updated estimate of 2 points... and valid reasons have been provided for it to maybe drop to one point.

Ruthless has had one response reasoning for 4 points, another suggesting 1 might be too high. I’m going to wait that one out.

Elusive might legitimately be a one point card instead of my original guess of 2, but I’m still thinking that for a generic dodgy ship with several red maneuvers (like mid-initiative A-Wing), being able to flip around, recharge Elusive, and get a green die reroll is still pretty nifty.

12 hours ago, Jike said:

I suspect Predator will be 5 points at least. Actionless mods are something FFG seems to be trying to get away from as much as possible so I wouldn't be surprised if Predator and FCS were both pretty expensive as a result. Abilities that work in the Bullseye arc are going to be interesting because we'll see fewer ships able to double reposition in the new edition, which means dodging those arcs will be more difficult. In addition, even if you can reposition to dodge the Bullseye, you'll likely not have any mods for your own shots either.

I agree about Marksmanship being fairly poor so it should be quite cheap: 2 at the most. Ruthless looks even worse than it is now, IMO. Not sure if even 1 point for that makes sense given the opportunity cost. Also worth noting that, as you're changing a dice result, you have no guarantee you'll even push damage through. So you can damage your own, already fragile, ships for potentially no benefit at all.

Don't forget that 5 points is still a point cheaper than the upgrade would have been in 1.0.

It really comes down to what level of premium they want to place on passive modifiers - they've already tightened the upgrade's usability, but is that enough? Or are they straight up pricing dice mods higher still as part of the no-stacks token gameplay?

We don't know, but I'm certainly going to be interested to find out.

Yes, FFG might cost passive mods at a premium, or they may eventually do so as usage data flows back to them.

But in the relative vacuum we find ourselves in, we can still pose a question like this:

My initial estimate puts Outmaneuver and Predator both at 4 points. Do these two passive attack mods seem equally valuable?