Brawn 7: Fambaa

Agility 6: Kybuck

(Stay on Target page 86)

Let’s do Anakin/Vader.

Brawn: Anakin 4 Vader 5

Vader’s cybernetics likely enhanced his prior physical strength.

Agility: Anakin 5 Vader 4

The wounds sustained on Mustafar limited his physical mobility and cybernetics couldn’t make up for it.

Intelligence: Anakin 3 Vader 6

Vader is a lot more reserved and thoughtful than Anakin was. His near death experience gave him a reality check.

Presence: Anakin 5 Vader 5

Both are about as equally charismatic, though in different ways.

Willpower: Anakin 4 Vader 6

Vader was a lot more forceful and mentally strong after RotS. He probably also picked up the ability to use Willpower for his lightsaber skill.

Cunning: Anakin 5 Vader 6

similar to intelligence. Vader gains a more calculating and patient personality after his injuries.

Vader is typically considered to be primarily Djem So with a bit of Makashi and dabbling in some other forms.

I've come to the conclusion that the Characteristics are actually useless as descriptors and are strictly some sort of abstract measurement of all the native variables for the character. I don't even use them Narratively now and the description of things like Brawn is purely a separate thing from the number used to get the dice pool. To be clear I would not now actually describe Brawn but would instead simply have the player describe overall Strength and use that for anything purely narrative. If the task would seem out of their possibility Narratively no roll will occur.

On 5/28/2018 at 2:33 AM, Yaccarus said:

Chewie is fairly small, I’d give him Brawn 3 (maybe 4 max)

Here's the thing, though...

He literally pulls the arms off people...

So if that's what you can do with a brawn 3 or 4, why isn't everyone in the world doing that? At least most player characters would have a brawn of 3, so they should be able to just rip peoples arms out of their sockets at will...

So no, I'd say that even if Chewie is "small" (really?), he'd still have a quite high Brawn.

15 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I've come to the conclusion that the Characteristics are actually useless as descriptors and are strictly some sort of abstract measurement of all the native variables for the character. I don't even use them Narratively now and the description of things like Brawn is purely a separate thing from the number used to get the dice pool.  To be clear I would not now actually describe Brawn but would instead simply have the player describe overall Strength and use that for anything purely narrative.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this right. Are you saying that you would let a character with a low Brawn score describe their character as strong and treat the character as such? Or is it just that you like to leave the resolution of the action to storytelling rather than dice rolls?

22 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

I'm not sure I'm understanding this right. Are you saying that you would let a character with a low Brawn score describe their character as strong and treat the character as such? Or is it just that you like to leave the resolution of the action to storytelling rather than dice rolls?

Yeah I think that the mechanic they went with in designing the game was to keep skills in check by counterweighting with Characteristics. The characteristics are just there to keep you from getting 9 yellow in a pool. The fact that a low integer had to be used precluded a range that would have been more representative, something like Brawn - Humans 1-6, Wookiees 7-15, Chadra Fan 1-2, Protocol Droids 2-4, Krayt Dragon 55. Because the scale is so compressed, each step in it is a massive change in description given the range is between tiny races and giant monsters.

To further compound the problem these Characteristics after creation mainly only improve with experience in a Specialization. I adventure and get to the bottom of my Social Specialization and take a point of Brawn. If the Characteristics represent actual Narrative Strength the character just got a pretty good increase in muscular ability. You can go into some mental gymnastics like saying he has been working out, but now he is at the same range as an average Wookiee.

So to me there is no way it can possibly be tied to the character's description of the Characteristic, and it's an abstract that represents luck, conditions of the test, story needs, and game progression probability toward success.

I think a little perspective is important when looking at Characteristics. After all, a Brawn 4 Ewok can't possibly lift the same as a Brawn 4 Wookie. I don't see the numbers as universal on a single scale, but rather an additional element in providing detail for the overall character. My Brawn 3 Droid is much stronger & more resilient than my Brawn 3 Human, simply because he is considerably larger & made of metal even though statistically they seem equals. Physics has to override math in this instance. This is where intelligent narrative plays into the overall storytelling of a TTRPG.

For a Wookie, Chewbacca may be small/average in size but he towers over the humans and is considerably stronger than them. So, even though they all may have a Brawn 3, Chewie does all the heavy lifting. The developers most likely created this system in the interest of keeping the mechanics simple and easy to apply. Building one scale that would cover all the races & possibilities in the galaxy would get huge and confusing quickly. It is up to the GM's & players to apply a little brainpower in the actual application in order to create their own balance.

26 minutes ago, crashnburninc said:

I think a little perspective is important when looking at Characteristics. After all, a Brawn 4 Ewok can't possibly lift the same as a Brawn 4 Wookie. I don't see the numbers as universal on a single scale, but rather an additional element in providing detail for the overall character. My Brawn 3 Droid is much stronger & more resilient than my Brawn 3 Human, simply because he is considerably larger & made of metal even though statistically they seem equals. Physics has to override math in this instance. This is where intelligent narrative plays into the overall storytelling of a TTRPG.

For a Wookie, Chewbacca may be small/average in size but he towers over the humans and is considerably stronger than them. So, even though they all may have a Brawn 3, Chewie does all the heavy lifting. The developers most likely created this system in the interest of keeping the mechanics simple and easy to apply. Building one scale that would cover all the races & possibilities in the galaxy would get huge and confusing quickly. It is up to the GM's & players to apply a little brainpower in the actual application in order to create their own balance.

I totally agree but there are systems that try to model this stuff through stats, and I think it's natural for people to want to use this as a measure of the Narrative abilities of the physical body/character. I was pretty unhappy when I realized that for me the system they had devised (which is elegant and great) could not be used to describe the characters but only their chance to do something.

On 5/29/2018 at 11:19 AM, Archlyte said:

I feel like a Wookiee with 6 is gonna be stronger than a Chadra Fan with 6. So for me those 6's are not static among all characters and are dependent on things. Like for instance if you got to 6 because of the Force, or drugs, or something.

Are a lot of you guys having characters get to 6? I would like to know what the probs of success are for a character with a 6 Characteristic and like 5 in the skill against Hard difficulty.

Funny that you use Chadra Fan as an example. Few years ago, on this forum actually iirc, there was a thread on that exact topic, re: how do we explain a character whose species starts at Brawn 1 but manages to get it to 6 when you've got wookiees running around.

Someone commented to the effect that, the Brawn 6 Chadra Fan? That's not simply a Chadra Fan. That's Tiki the Headripper, notorious all around the Outer Rim for, well, popping off heads like bottle caps, and even your average Wookiee has a good long think before taking on the little monster. Maybe Tiki's really buff. Maybe Tiki is just really good at applying force to the necks of sentient beings at exactly the right angle to enable headripping. Point is that the character went down a very specific path, and that probably gets noticed (and notorious).

I mentioned Tiki the Headripper during Age character creation once, as an example to encourage a player who was feeling pigeonholed by starting characteristics. That's how I ended up having to build threats that could actually cause harm to and survive more than two seconds against the vibroaxe of the Chadra Fan Commando known only as The Wookiee.

ANYWAYS, as a GM I've run into a handful of Characteristic 6 folk. With the exception of one Slicer and The Wookiee, the other 3-4 were all Agility addicts (some piloting in there, but mostly for the shooting). Success isn't guaranteed, but it's pretty close. Player satisfaction was . . . okay, to be honest. People tended to start to diversify after too long because being too good at their one thing started to be boring for them, changed up gear in an attempt to spice things up a bit, or shuffled the character off this mortal coil.

2 hours ago, Cannibal Halfling said:

Someone commented to the effect that, the Brawn 6 Chadra Fan? That's not simply a Chadra Fan. That's Tiki the Headripper, notorious all around the Outer Rim for, well, popping off heads like bottle caps, and even your average Wookiee has a good long think before taking on the little monster. Maybe Tiki's really buff. Maybe Tiki is just really good at applying force to the necks of sentient beings at exactly the right angle to enable headripping. Point is that the character went down a very specific path, and that probably gets noticed (and notorious).

I'm reminded of a simple homebrew, setting-neutral system I enjoy. In it, each of the characteristics (of which Brawn is one) is abstracted. A character with maxed Brawn might be physically really strong, or they might just be really good at applying the force they have, or maybe they just have enough willpower that they push themselves past most other people when it comes to strength. It's the results that matter, and how they get there is a matter of imagination. In a similar vein, that same system suggested a character who's generally very dumb, but has a high Knowledge stat, simply because they've read so much and a good ability to retain and recall that information.

...That being said, I'm not sure why you'd try to get to 6 Brawn with a species that starts at Brawn 1, unless it's specifically for the weirdness of such a creature having such physical might. I don't even know how one would do so...

On 6/15/2018 at 11:45 PM, Dusk Raven said:

.That being said, I'm not sure why you'd try to get to 6 Brawn    with a species that starts at Brawn 1, unless it's specifically for the weirdness of such a creature having such physical   might. I don't    even know how one would do so...      

90 XP at creation to get to Brawn 4, already impressive, then it's just two dedication talents to get to Brawn 6. If someone really wanted to focus on that to the exclusion of all other characteristics, it's possible. Technically you wouldn't have anything else that would be very weak, and you'd probably have at least a 3 somewhere else.

Personally I'd like to see a wookiee get to Willpower 6 myself. Not even a force user, just a big hairy guy who's been through enough and won't take it any more.

20 minutes ago, deraforia said:

90 XP at creation to get to Brawn 4, already impressive, then it's just two dedication talents to get to Brawn 6. If someone really wanted to focus on that to the exclusion of all other characteristics, it's possible. Technically you wouldn't have anything else that would be very weak, and you'd probably have at least a 3 somewhere else.

Personally I'd like to see a wookiee get to Willpower 6 myself. Not even a force user, just a big hairy guy who's been through enough and won't take it any more.

Dedication talents? Hmm, not familiar with those.

Just now, Dusk Raven said:

Dedication talents? Hmm, not familiar with those.

There's one in each specialization. EotE page 134: "Each rank permanently increases a single characteristic of the player's choice by one point. This cannot bring a characteristic above six."

3 minutes ago, deraforia said:

There's one in each specialization. EotE page 134: "Each rank permanently increases a single characteristic of the player's choice by one point. This cannot bring a characteristic above six."

I see, hadn't seen those before for some reason. It does look like they'd require quite a few talents as prerequisites, however. But still doable.

11 minutes ago, Dusk Raven said:

I see, hadn't seen those before for some reason. It does look like they'd require quite a few talents as prerequisites, however. But still doable.

Oh definitely. It's not the easiest road, but that just makes it all the more impressive when you get that six.

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:17 PM, Cannibal Halfling said:

Funny that you use Chadra Fan as an example. Few years ago, on this forum actually iirc, there was a thread on that exact topic, re: how do we explain a character whose species starts at Brawn 1 but manages to get it to 6 when you've got wookiees running around.

Someone commented to the effect that, the Brawn 6 Chadra Fan? That's not simply a Chadra Fan. That's Tiki the Headripper, notorious all around the Outer Rim for, well, popping off heads like bottle caps, and even your average Wookiee has a good long think before taking on the little monster. Maybe Tiki's really buff. Maybe Tiki is just really good at applying force to the necks of sentient beings at exactly the right angle to enable headripping. Point is that the character went down a very specific path, and that probably gets noticed (and notorious).

I mentioned Tiki the Headripper during Age character creation once, as an example to encourage a player who was feeling pigeonholed by starting characteristics. That's how I ended up having to build threats that could actually cause harm to and survive more than two seconds against the vibroaxe of the Chadra Fan Commando known only as The Wookiee.

ANYWAYS, as a GM I've run into a handful of Characteristic 6 folk. With the exception of one Slicer and The Wookiee, the other 3-4 were all Agility addicts (some piloting in there, but mostly for the shooting). Success isn't guaranteed, but it's pretty close. Player satisfaction was . . . okay, to be honest. People tended to start to diversify after too long because being too good at their one thing started to be boring for them, changed up gear in an attempt to spice things up a bit, or shuffled the character off this mortal coil.

Thanks for replying to that question. Yeah that's what I figured and it confirms my sense of where the sweet spot is. I think the game has a fairly gentle progression compared to some games, but it still can result in some weird transformations that may be at odds with narrative explanations at the high end. Viewing the Characteristics as abstractions and being slow with the XP solves that issue for me though.

Why, I do, of course.

On 6/17/2018 at 6:27 PM, Dusk Raven said:

I see, hadn't seen those before for some reason. It does look like they'd require quite a few talents as prerequisites, however. But still doable.

Those are the only way to raise your base stats after character creation besides cybernetics.