IF they were to a Scum Falcon, which I think is far from necessary, it'd have to be worse than the Rebel version. We know that the Falcon we see in Episode IV and onward has benefited from over a decade of custom upgrades and modifications from Han and Chewbacca. For instance, the quad laser turrets Han puts on are almost certainly more powerful and potent than the single-barrel laser cannons that were on the 'stock,' model. So what does that mean in game? Only 2 Attack? Would the Scum Falcon be closer to the classic 1.0 Outer Rim Smuggler pilot (2 Attack, 4 Shields, 6 Hull)? Probably. Does this encroach much too closely to the Jumpmaster? Probably.

I suppose the Scum Falcon title could add an emergency escape shuttle to the ship, not unlike the Ghost adds a Phantom shuttle. But... it doesn't seem like the emergency escape shuttle is armed for combat or likely even combat maneuverable, nor is it likely fitted with enough sensors and arrays to be a 'support ship,' so... what in-game benefit for that beak-docked shuttle provide?

4 hours ago, BVRCH said:

I see no need in another falcon. Its not different enough from the other 2 and I can't see it being a Scum ship so I doubt we'll see it in game.

It's more different than the resistance version is from the rebel one. Seems pretty scummy to me too. I mean, it starts off as Lando's ship and he had worked for Crimson Dawn and as a smuggler well before the movie even starts. Then Han worked for Crimson Dawn. Then Han left the movie to go find Jabba. So not only did the Falcon spend an entire feature film working for scum, but before and after it too lol

28 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

IF they were to a Scum Falcon, which I think is far from necessary, it'd have to be worse than the Rebel version. We know that the Falcon we see in Episode IV and onward has benefited from over a decade of custom upgrades and modifications from Han and Chewbacca. For instance, the quad laser turrets Han puts on are almost certainly more powerful and potent than the single-barrel laser cannons that were on the 'stock,' model. So what does that mean in game? Only 2 Attack? Would the Scum Falcon be closer to the classic 1.0 Outer Rim Smuggler pilot (2 Attack, 4 Shields, 6 Hull)? Probably. Does this encroach much too closely to the Jumpmaster? Probably.

I suppose the Scum Falcon title could add an emergency escape shuttle to the ship, not unlike the Ghost adds a Phantom shuttle. But... it doesn't seem like the emergency escape shuttle is armed for combat or likely even combat maneuverable, nor is it likely fitted with enough sensors and arrays to be a 'support ship,' so... what in-game benefit for that beak-docked shuttle provide?

We all want to see the bog standard YT1300 that was the Outer Rim Smuggler without all the modifications, but I think the pilot card is more connected to the ship with the title and everything. But yeah a low firepower one shoudl be in the Scum, Lando can have the Falcon.

2 minutes ago, Ambigatos said:

It's more different than the resistance version is from the rebel one. Seems pretty scummy to me too. I mean, it starts off as Lando's ship and he had worked for Crimson Dawn and as a smuggler well before the movie even starts. Then Han worked for Crimson Dawn. Then Han left the movie to go find Jabba. So not only did the Falcon spend an entire feature film working for scum, but before and after it too lol

Yeah but it still seems liek they changed the design for the sake of change like a lot of things done in that movie.

Me personally, If scum gets their YT-1300 I would prefer for them to get the beakless one.

The Falcon card we have seen in 2.0 specifically called it a "Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter" and the Falcon title also specifically states "Rebel. Modified YT-1300." We know the 2.0 designers done that to future proof the game.

With that being said, I think it is VERY possible for them to release a "YT-1300 Light Freighter" with a Falcon title of the same name, adding the escape pod ala Ghost mechanic.

It would likely have 2 attack but maybe a native white boost or maybe even link actions to represent the fact it is in better condition. Could even add back in the Smuggling Compartment to allow access to illicit once more, albeit at a discount to what the Rebel one would be able to purchase. ****, you could even give it a slightly different dial in that it can do Talon rolls as opposed to K-turns to simulate the drift move Han does.

You could then have L3, Lando and Han in the scum faction. Add Qira, Beckett, L3, Han, Chewbacca and Lando as Scum crew, throw in a new EPT or two and you have a movie tie in box set.

9 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Good and evil are points of perspective of course. The empire would argue all rebels are terrorists, but to get back to the point Han is inherently good, and inherently good characters don't fit the brand of Scum simply because they are a smuggler or the like.

I disagree. Scum is a faction of mercenary, criminals and individualists, not necessarily of cold hearted assassins. Han is both a criminal (smuggler, robber) and individualist. His is very Scum to me.

His faction in each film:

• Solo: Scum
• ANH: Scum
• ESB: Rebel
• ROTJ: Rebel
• TFA: starts Scum and become Resistance

I do hope to see Lando's pristine Falcon in the game, with 2 attack, more illicits and some mechanic with the escape shuttle. It would probably be more a support ship, instead of a moving fortress.

2 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

The Falcon card we have seen in 2.0 specifically called it a "Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter" and the Falcon title also specifically states "Rebel. Modified YT-1300." We know the 2.0 designers done that to future proof the game.

With that being said, I think it is VERY possible for them to release a "YT-1300 Light Freighter" with a Falcon title of the same name, adding the escape pod ala Ghost mechanic.

It would likely have 2 attack but maybe a native white boost or maybe even link actions to represent the fact it is in better condition. Could even add back in the Smuggling Compartment to allow access to illicit once more, albeit at a discount to what the Rebel one would be able to purchase. ****, you could even give it a slightly different dial in that it can do Talon rolls as opposed to K-turns to simulate the drift move Han does.

You could then have L3, Lando and Han in the scum faction. Add Qira, Beckett, L3, Han, Chewbacca and Lando as Scum crew, throw in a new EPT or two and you have a movie tie in box set.

All of this. ^

10 hours ago, Odanan said:

I disagree. Scum is a faction of mercenary, criminals and individualists, not necessarily of cold hearted assassins. Han is both a criminal (smuggler, robber) and individualist. His is very Scum to me.

His faction in each film:

• Solo: Scum (Sure, but is a criminal first in order to survive [Ezra started like this too], and later in order to save his girlfriend, and ends up helping a rebel cell)
• ANH: Scum (for about 20mins, and comes back and saves Luke's *** because 'Good Guy Han')
• ESB: Rebel
• ROTJ: Rebel
• TFA: starts Scum and become Resistance (Goes back to what he knows after he lost his son, best friend, and his marriage [to the general of the resistance] fell apart)

I do hope to see Lando's pristine Falcon in the game, with 2 attack, more illicits and some mechanic with the escape shuttle. It would probably be more a support ship, instead of a moving fortress.

I don't think this movie to movie analysis of his faction affiliation is is a valid way to evaluate his character. Just because he's a criminal, doesn't mean he's not a Rebel. Lots of Rebels are criminals. Now there are less discernible characters like Lando that are more situational rebels, but I don't understand how you think Han is in that same boat.

Sabine is an Imperial traitor (and Mandalorian traitor in some eyes), a definite criminal and used to run with a crew of bounty hunters. Does that make her any less of a Rebel? No, her rebel identity is her most recognizable, and the truest representation of her character and that is why she is a Rebel in the game. Same goes for Han.

Regardless of what we think of Han's character, he has to be in 1 faction. This is evident in the Dev's pulling out Nym from Rebels and Boba from Imperials. Han is more Rebel than Scum and that is why I think he will most likely not have a Scum version in game.

22 hours ago, BVRCH said:

There is a particular conversation between Han and Qi'Ra in the film that epitomizes his character for me. I won't say which one for the sake of spoilers but if you remember it, you'll probably know the one I'm talking about.

To quote the man himself; "That's not how the force works"

The difference to me is; unlike someone like Boba Fett who will do anything for money (he literally helped the bad buys for a bit of cash, just like his Dad), Han has his own agenda; and whilst he seems selfish, his motives are usually benevolent.

Bossk for example; is a ruthless bounty hunter and mercenary that has no empathy for anyone and will literally kill any innocents that get in the way of the contract. His species are slavers and hunt sentient beings for sport. He is a very suitable Scum and Villainy character. That roughly sums up almost all of the characters a part of the faction so far.

Han does what he needs to survive; that includes his smuggling mind you. He doesn't put people in harms way (friends or strangers) unless he knows they're about to do the same to him. He is a good guy in a bad place, unlike the rest of Scum who might not be the 'bad guys' per se in regards to the story, but they are definitely bad guys in general.

Another example is Saw Gerrera (an better example in my eyes). Whilst he does some horrible things and is a borderline psycho, he is a zealot for a good cause. He fights for the common good and stands up for those who can't fight for themselves. He is a good guy with questionable methods. Saw rebels against the Empire itself whereas Han rebels against a life within the Empire.

Good and evil are points of perspective of course. The empire would argue all rebels are terrorists, but to get back to the point Han is inherently good, and inherently good characters don't fit the brand of Scum simply because they are a smuggler or the like.

Good doesn't mean rebel. Evil doesn't mean empire/scum. Saw was basically no longer part of the rebellion because his methods were too brutal for the rest of the Rebels, he's not exactly a "good" guy. but he's still a rebel in x-wing. Fenn Rau isn't "evil", but is still in scum. Scum is basically the catch-all for stuff that isn't part of the empire or the rebellion (or FO/Resistance now). And Han fits perfectly in scum. He's literally a smuggler and lawbreaker with no ties to the rebellion until he's hired by luke and obi-wan, and the earliest I'd say you could classify him as "rebel" is when he comes back and saves luke at the death star.

28 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

I don't think this movie to movie analysis of his faction affiliation is is a valid way to evaluate his character. Just because he's a criminal, doesn't mean he's not a Rebel. Lots of Rebels are criminals. Now there are less discernible characters like Lando that are more situational rebels, but I don't understand how you think Han is in that same boat.

Sabine is an Imperial traitor (and Mandalorian traitor in some eyes), a definite criminal and used to run with a crew of bounty hunters. Does that make her any less of a Rebel? No, her rebel identity is her most recognizable, and the truest representation of her character and that is why she is a Rebel in the game. Same goes for Han.

Regardless of what we think of Han's character, he has to be in 1 faction. This is evident in the Dev's pulling out Nym from Rebels and Boba from Imperials. Han is more Rebel than Scum and that is why I think he will most likely not have a Scum version in game.

Sabine is *literally* a part of the rebellion (or a rebel cell before the official rebellion) from before we first see her in Rebels. Of course she's rebel in game. She's ALSO scum in game (at least in 1e, which is easy for people to forget since no one flies her. We don't know about 2e yet) as a nod to her bounty hunter days.

Having a rebel Han is fine. He WAS part of the rebellion. He just wasn't ALWAYS that. Solo era Han absolutely would belong in scum, despite being a "good guy". And before TFA he was back to being on the scum end as well, not the rebel/resistance end. Fell right back into old habits. And if we get Old New Han in resistance in wave 2 he'll be in more than 1 faction anyway.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Sabine is *literally* a part of the rebellion (or a rebel cell before the official rebellion) from before we first see her in Rebels. Of course she's rebel in game. She's ALSO scum in game (at least in 1e, which is easy for people to forget since no one flies her. We don't know about 2e yet) as a nod to her bounty hunter days. [Nym and Boba are now single faction, its pretty safe to assume she will be too]

Having a rebel Han is fine. He WAS part of the rebellion. He just wasn't ALWAYS that. Solo era Han absolutely would belong in scum, despite being a "good guy". And before TFA he was back to being on the scum end as well, not the rebel/resistance end. Fell right back into old habits. And if we get Old New Han in resistance in wave 2 he'll be in more than 1 faction anyway.

You literally just contradicted your own argument.. I give up.

58 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

You literally just contradicted your own argument.. I give up.

Where did I contradict myself? Sabine was part of the rebellion in the media we have for her. So we have her as a rebel pilot. She was also a bounty hunter in the past. So we have her as a scum pilot.

Boba is no longer imperial because he never should have been in the first place he only went imperial because scum didn’t exist at the time. boba fett was never part of the empire. For nym, I don’t know/remember his background well enough to speak to how well he belongs in each faction. But my guess is he was removed less for thematic reasons of where he fits and more because he was the ONLY rebel pilot in an otherwise scum ship. Compared to ships like the ywing, hwk and z95 that are cross faction with a full suite of pilots

Han was part of the rebellion for most of the time we saw him in the OT. So we have him as a rebel pilot. He was also a smuggler and scoundrel and NOT part of the rebellion when we first saw him in ANH, as well as now an entire movie in Solo. So he fits perfectly in scum as well.

Nowhere have the devs actually said a pilot can’t be in more than one faction, despite seeing boba and nym go that way. As I already said, I can’t imagine we won’t get resistance Han back, so that already puts him in more than one faction when wave 2 hits.

On 5/28/2018 at 5:34 PM, Commander Kaine said:

I have. I'm not saying he is evil.

But faction wise, he should belong to Scum until ep 5, and back again to Scum after ep 6.

By the time of TFA, he is back at smuggling.

I disagree.

While he is in the Cantina, a “hive of scum and villainy”, he is neither scum or a villain. After all, Luke and Ben Kenobi are in that same Cantina, and they are certainly not scum. Yeah, Han’s a criminal, but not because he’s cruel or without a sense of ethics...he commits crimes to live free.

Yes, he kills Greedo, a scummy bounty hunter who has a gun pointed at him. This is not murder.

Han actually fights in battle alongside the Rebels. This contrasts with (for example) Boba Fett, who works for the Empire, but doesn’t actually take his ship into battle beside them.

In the Battle of Yavin, Han saves Luke. Not because he wants to “get into Leia’s pants” or because he’s getting paid, but because Luke is his friend and it’s the right thing to do. He basically declares for the Rebellion right then and there, even if he doesn’t want to admit it. He’s certainly a Rebel in the Empire’s eyes.

Without Han, Luke dies in the trench, and the Rebellion probably dies with him. Han is one of the most important figures in the Rebellion at that point, along with Luke and Leia.

Starting with Ep IV, Han is a Rebel, not Scum. This is not a “Boba-Empire” thing.

Quote

Yeah, Han’s a criminal, but not because he’s cruel or without a sense of ethics...

But neither of those things are what defines the faction either. The S&V faction covers fringe operators who weren’t directly affiliated with either side of the GCW but were motivated more by profit and self interest

From the announcement of the scum faction

Quote

These Scum live outside the law, do their best to remain at the periphery of the ongoing Galactic Civil War, and allow no one – no one – to threaten their profits.

Quote

They may do their best to remain outside the conflicts of the Galactic Civil War,...

While certainly most of the faction are unpleasant persons, it covers anyone who is not a part of one of the warring factions but who might still end up in combat with them.

If they add the escape craft/escape pod to the Falcon title for the Scum version it could likely just be shot off either to do a small bit of damage along a bullseye or front arc, or could dump stress onto ships in that area instead. It was used as a distraction afterall. That or a single charge upgrade that lets the Falcon do a 1 bank or 1 turn boost maneuver at the start of the egagement phase.

As for the miniature I'd be fine with a Solo Falcon without a removable escape craft but it would be cooler if it could be removed just so that people had the option of keeping it there or not. As well as being able to display a Stock YT-1300 or Lando's sproofed up stock YT-1300.

59 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

But neither of those things are what defines the faction either. The S&V faction covers fringe operators who weren’t directly affiliated with either side of the GCW but were motivated more by profit and self interest

From the announcement of the scum faction

While certainly most of the faction are unpleasant persons, it covers anyone who is not a part of one of the warring factions but who might still end up in combat with them.

Han gets thrown out of The Scum faction due to that first quote. He CONSTANTLY puts people over profits.

That ventral one-gun turret has to be a serious downgrade in firepower from the dorsal and ventral quad-laser turrets of the ANH Falcon. Single arc 2 dice turret?

15 minutes ago, elfholme said:

Han gets thrown out of The Scum faction due to that first quote. He CONSTANTLY puts people over profits.

Being a good guy doesn't invalidate you from being part of the scum faction. Fenn Rau becomes a rebel eventually and is still in scum also.

8 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Sabine is an Imperial traitor (and Mandalorian traitor in some eyes), a definite criminal and used to run with a crew of bounty hunters. Does that make her any less of a Rebel? No, her rebel identity is her most recognizable, and the truest representation of her character and that is why she is a Rebel in the game. Same goes for Han.

In the nicest possible way this can be said... Worst point ever... Sabine is more a rebel then scum but she is scum and thus is a scum pilot. Han is more Rebel than scum but he is still scum!

2 hours ago, elfholme said:

Han gets thrown out of The Scum faction due to that first quote. He CONSTANTLY puts people over profits.

Let me ask you this, imagine you have never seen Star Wars before and don't know anything about it. Then you start to watch and read everything from the very beginning and the next thing you are about to watch is A new Hope . What Faction would you but Han Solo in:

Empire

Rebels

Scum

Obviously Scum, he may have a good heart but that's not enough to class him as a rebel. That's what we are going for. Look at other examples:

Sabine was once scum but now a rebel so she's in both.

Fenn Rau was once Scum but now a Rebel so he's I'm both

I think the point I'm trying to make is before A New Hope no one would even dream about putting him in rebels and after a new hope he's 50/50 as he did do a lot for credits

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

If they add the escape craft/escape pod to the Falcon title for the Scum version it could likely just be shot off either to do a small bit of damage along a bullseye or front arc, or could dump stress onto ships in that area instead. It was used as a distraction afterall. That or a single charge upgrade that lets the Falcon do a 1 bank or 1 turn boost maneuver at the start of the egagement phase.

As for the miniature I'd be fine with a Solo Falcon without a removable escape craft but it would be cooler if it could be removed just so that people had the option of keeping it there or not. As well as being able to display a Stock YT-1300 or Lando's sproofed up stock YT-1300.

I see a few options for the Escape Pod:

1. A Biggs effect: You launch it out the front and if both the Falcon and the Escape Pod are in your arc, you either must target it. The Escape Pod would have two hull or something.

2. Selflessness: You launch it out the front and if both the Falcon and the Escape Pod are in your arc and within range 0 - 2 of each other, the defender may sacrifice the escape pod (removing it from the board) to cancel all attack dice results.

3. Hound's Tooth: When the Falcon receives it's last damage card, you can launch the Escape Pod out of the front. It has three Hull, two agility, the initiative and pilot ability of the Falcon pilot card and as long as its on the board, the Falcon doesn't forfeit the rest of its half points.

For me the falcon is maybe the most iconic ship of the franchise, I even bought one despite the fact that I love being a pirate and play scum almost exclusively.

But we really don't need a scum falcon. Let it stay on the rebel / resistance side

Han definitely fits in the Scum faction. Imagine he gets into it with some Imperials, even just the day before he meets Luke and Obi Wan. Who is he flying for? Jabba the Hutt.

To quote from Jedi an Imperial officer;

"You Rebel Scum!"

Just to give a twist to all this.

Also, Luke didn't join the Rebellion till he gets to Yavin. At the start of ANH he was looking to join the imperial academy.

Finally only the force is really black and white when it comes to good and evil in the Films, everything else quote Ben in Jedi;

"Luke, many of the truths we cling to are derived from our own point of view."

I think I got the quote right.

Anyway, Solo starts as Scum in ANH and he shot first, he has no problems with killing.

Also currently (1.0) rebels have 6 large base ships. Scum have 5 large base ships. Empire have 4 large base ships.

I just counted them, I currently have a complete collection. I'm not counting pilots, just the unique models.

I'd love to see a Scum Solo, and would also love to see a Scum Dash Rendar in a YT2000. And a rebel Lambda class shuttle with Han as a Pilot (Jedi).

In fact, if you really think about it, the rebels stole many imperial ships, and the very nature of Scum is to use what they can get their hands on. So regardless of who the pilot is, Scum should have access to a YT1300 since the rebel have a Pilot card Outer Rim Smuggler. That card alone should be moved to the Scum Faction.

Yes I know the Scum Faction did not exist when the game started, but that's also why the Imperials got Boba. And why they lose him in 2.0

Here's a thought, how about a card that allows the Rebels and Imperials to HIRE from the Scum faction?

And possible a card to allow Rebels and Scum to steal ships?

Yeah, I know, wrong thread for the questions.

Final thought,

Let there be a Solo Scum pilot.

10 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Being a good guy doesn't invalidate you from being part of the scum faction. Fenn Rau becomes a rebel eventually and is still in scum also.

Just for clarification, this is the quote I was referring to, which didn’t get included when I quoted his post:

“These Scum live outside the law, do their best to remain at the periphery of the ongoing Galactic Civil War, and allow no one – no one – to threaten their profits.“

If that’s the benchmark being used, Han doesn’t fit. He CONSTANTLY puts people over profits.

To be clear, I don’t disagree that there is some justification for Han being part of a “Fringe” faction. More justification than for the Rebel faction though? No, that just makes no sense if you are basing faction membership on the movies.

Even in the new movie, he helps the fledgling Alliance more than he helps Crimson Dawn. In EpIV, he is one of the most important members of the Rebel Alliance, from smuggling critical Alliance intel to his part in the Battle of Yavin.

I object to the idea that he deserves Scum membership as much or more than Rebel membership, and that his membership started with EpV. He’s a key member of the Rebellion from A New Hope on.

Just now, elfholme said:

Just for clarification, this is the quote I was referring to, which didn’t get included when I quoted his post:

“These Scum live outside the law, do their best to remain at the periphery of the ongoing Galactic Civil War, and allow no one – no one – to threaten their profits.“

If that’s the benchmark being used, Han doesn’t fit.

To be clear, I don’t disagree that there is some justification for Han being part of a “Fringe” faction. More justification than for the Rebel faction though? No, that just makes no sense if you are basing faction membership on the movies.

Even in the new movie, he helps the fledgling Alliance more than he helps Crimson Dawn. In EpIV, he is one of the most important members of the Rebel Alliance, from smuggling critical Alliance intel to his part in the Battle of Yavin.

I object to the idea that he deserves Scum membership as much or more than Rebel membership, and that his membership started with EpV. He’s a key member of the Rebellion from A New Hope on.

That's not a good benchmark though. The Mandalorians for instance aren't out for nothing but profit. And most (all?) of us aren't arguing Han should be scum and shouldn't be rebel. Just that he should be in both.