Kayn Somos is really fun, and becomes better at higher point value games, when he has more nearby troopers. I won a small Game Night tournament with him right when he came out, but he's obviously not any good now. Kayn Somos would pair perfectly with the E-Web, but that's not a good unit either. Advanced Com System helps, but if a fix assumes taking Somos, that means he can't take another attachment.

He needs another Surge ability, or increase his existing Surges to +2 Damage/Pierce 2.

A points decrease wouldn't hurt either. He should probably be costed similar to Sorin and Terro at 7-8 points.

1 hour ago, 1728maxfirepower said:

A points decrease wouldn't hurt either. He should probably be costed similar to Sorin and Terro at 7-8 points.

8 points with Adv Com Sys included in the fix and a flat +1 DMG should be good enough.

I’d really like a point decrease for Somos to 7. I think he should escape any possible activation shenanigans with Death troopers

3 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

I’d really like a point decrease for Somos to 7. I think he should escape any possible activation shenanigans with Death troopers

If it is on a fix card, he'll still have a figure cost of 10 so we can go as low as we need without worrying about that.

35 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

If it is on a fix card, he'll still have a figure cost of 10 so we can go as low as we need without worrying about that.

That’s... a really good point. 7 points, with the option of advanced coms for 8 would be a really solid cost point.

You know me: deployment cost reductions are fine BUT I like doing a bit more tweaking.

I think Kayn shouldn't be less than 8 points because he's one of the few Imperials that can give Focus to Troopers. But if he's going to be put at 8 points, he should have the benefits of Advanced Coms baked into his attachment.

Additionally one of the things I heard the last time we discussed Kayn on the board was concern over his survivability. Even with 12 health he will get melted by the heavy hitters of this new meta. From my playtesting w/ Kayn -- my son played *a lot* of Kayn when we first started playing IA -- Kayn should have a bit harder of a punch to help set up his Troopers for the kill.

Thus, my current skirmish fix:

Quote

Unique Skirmish Attachment Card: Squad Leader (Kayn Somos only)

Cost: -2

+1 EVADE. You lose "SURGE: +1 DMG" and gain "SURGE: +2 DMG".

Firing Squad and Squad Command now affect figures within 3 spaces of you.

With the surge for +2 DMG, Kayn now has a 63% chance vs. one black die and a 60% chance vs. one white die of doing at least 4 DMG. With his dice pool, you'll have an 80% chance vs. one black die and 66% chance vs. one white die of at least doing 1 DMG on a target 7 spaces away. Without rerolls, Kayn has only a 29% chance vs. one black die and a 14% chance vs. one white die to roll at least 2 surges. Given Concentrated Fire and a Droid with Trusted Ally, Kayn can bring the pain.... at the expense of using his surges for attacking instead of Focusing.

This version of Kayn pairs up nicely with the Emperor and just about any Trooper combo you want to use.

I do like that your fix both allows him to Firing Squad with himself and actually gives him the possibility to do damage and make that a worthwhile play.

I do think he can be cheaper than 8, since his focus is limited to Troopers only. IMO Vader is the primary reason Imps should never get Focus. Sentries are great with Focus, but you have only conditional access to one focus do I don't think that's a major problem.

Seeing the above, I think that fix could be dropped to -3, or give him a reroll and +1 health at -2.

Dunno. Health-wise, at 8 points, he's comparable to Emperor. He gives additional attacks like Emperor and can boost friends like Emperor (all in slightly different ways). I think he'd be very comparable to Emperor in a trooper build (where he can use Trooper cards too). Especially if he can Firing Squad himself.

10 hours ago, cnemmick said:

You know me: deployment cost reductions are fine BUT I like doing a bit more tweaking.

I think Kayn shouldn't be less than 8 points because he's one of the few Imperials that can give Focus to Troopers. But if he's going to be put at 8 points, he should have the benefits of Advanced Coms baked into his attachment.

Additionally one of the things I heard the last time we discussed Kayn on the board was concern over his survivability. Even with 12 health he will get melted by the heavy hitters of this new meta. From my playtesting w/ Kayn -- my son played *a lot* of Kayn when we first started playing IA -- Kayn should have a bit harder of a punch to help set up his Troopers for the kill.

Thus, my current skirmish fix:

With the surge for +2 DMG, Kayn now has a 63% chance vs. one black die and a 60% chance vs. one white die of doing at least 4 DMG. With his dice pool, you'll have an 80% chance vs. one black die and 66% chance vs. one white die of at least doing 1 DMG on a target 7 spaces away. Without rerolls, Kayn has only a 29% chance vs. one black die and a 14% chance vs. one white die to roll at least 2 surges. Given Concentrated Fire and a Droid with Trusted Ally, Kayn can bring the pain.... at the expense of using his surges for attacking instead of Focusing.

This version of Kayn pairs up nicely with the Emperor and just about any Trooper combo you want to use.

I agree with this fix, the evade is likely a good addition. I wouldn't make him more surge dependent with 1SRG for 2DMG, I would rather add a flat +1 DMG to encourage people using his attack more often rather than using his abilities only like we do with Gideon.

38 minutes ago, Golan Trevize said:

I agree with this fix, the evade is likely a good addition. I wouldn't make him more surge dependent with 1SRG for 2DMG, I would rather add a flat +1 DMG to encourage people using his attack more often rather than using his abilities only like we do with Gideon.

I playtested a version where he had a static +1 damage. His damage output was incredible -- around 40% chance of doing at least 5 dmg if one surge is spent on the +1 dmg. I felt like that would have been fine if Kayn was kept at cost 10 (like Han), but was very overpowered if he was dropped down to 8.

4 hours ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

I do like that your fix both allows him to Firing Squad with himself and actually gives him the possibility to do damage and make that a worthwhile play.

I just realized my wording unintentionally allows him to Squad Command himself as well. I'll need to reword the card to prevent that.

Ok, let's try this again:

Quote

Unique Skirmish Attachment Card: Squad Leader (Kayn Somos only)

Cost: -2

+1 EVADE. You lose "SURGE: +1 DMG" and gain "SURGE: +2 DMG".

Firing Squad now affect figures within 3 spaces of you. Squad Command now affect other friendly Troopers within 3 spaces of you.

Kayn Somos has other problems than points cost. Usually, a figure steps into LoS, shoots and goes back out of LoS, or it dies fast.

Kayn Somos has two key abilities, that make him shine: Hand out focus and hand out extra attacks. Both key abilities need an action. Therefore, he can't move and use both of them. As long as Firing Squad is a special action he will either not shoot (and therefore not hand out focus) or he will not move (and die fast), when he uses Firing Squad.

Furthermore, when he uses Firing Squad, his underlings have to have LoS to worthy targets in the first place. Therefore, they have to be out in the open and die fast. Actually, if you have Kayn ready and leave two troopers in LoS, then I will kill those troopers at all cost before Kayn is able to use Firing Squad on them. Or I will move every figure out of LoS of these troopers, so Firing Squad cannot be used, and then I will take my time killing those troopers.

And that Firing Squad includes "the same target" makes it even harder to set up.

Kayna Somos would be playable if:

- his health to points cost ratio would be better.

- Firing Squad and Squad Command would be within three spaces instead of adjacent.

- Firing Squad would include an attack for Kayn himself, just like Leia's Battlefield Leadership.

- Firing Squad would not include the "the same target" stuff.

- his surges would be better.

- he would be cheaper.

3 hours ago, DerBaer said:

Kayna Somos would be playable if:

- his health to points cost ratio would be better.

- Firing Squad and Squad Command would be within three spaces instead of adjacent.

- Firing Squad would include an attack for Kayn himself, just like Leia's Battlefield Leadership.

- Firing Squad would not include the "the same target" stuff.

- his surges would be better.

- he would be cheaper.

Except for the"same figure" stuff, that's exactly what we talked about in the episode.

With Emperor Palpatine, Elite Imperial Officers, Jabba the Hutt or any other figure that grants out-of-activation attacks, the risk of having that attacking figure potentially being in the target's line-of-sight is part of the cost of the ability. It's also not always a risk if the attacking figure is positioned where line-of-sight cannot be drawn back to it. Its our job as players to weigh the risk with the reward and to manipulate positioning on the board so that the risk is limited.

I think having Firing Squad limited to the same target is fair. Being able to pull off two attacks in one activation is very powerful. To offset this power, the player needs to have the skill necessary to position his/her figures. The Emperor may not have to attack the same target hit when he uses his Emperor ability, but the Emperor also cannot Focus other figures and can't hit figures from 4 or more spaces away.

Edit: @ThatJakeGuy I am just now getting around to listening to the podcast. Thanks for the shoutout! If you want me to join y'all for a "Let's Fix Everything!" episode, I'd love to.

1 hour ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

Except for the"same figure" stuff, that's exactly what we talked about in the episode.

Sorry, I didn't have the time to listen to the whole cast yet. I just replied to the others in this thread.