And so overnight, our understanding of gas in the Star Was universe goes from something handwaved and abstract (the most we ever had up until now was the leaking hyperdrive on the Queens ship) to something much more concrete. Lets figure this stuff out, shall we?

* Only found on Kessel? Unlikely - if that were the case, the Empire would have blockaded the crap out of the planet. It would have been the most hotly contested planet in the Clone Wars. And, more importantly, it probably would have been mined out ages and ages ago. So a source for coaxium, but not THE source for coaxium. Probably just the closest source to where Han was at the time.

* It's crazy explosive. Even in it's stable form - and I use that term very loosely - a train car is enough to blow up an entire mountain. According to the internet, your average terrestrial CSX 50’ railroad boxcar can carry from 70 to 100 tons. That maglev boxcar wasn't packed to overflowing, so lets call it 30 tons of coaxium. Not a bad return on your bang for a buck, even being crazy expensive as it is. Its only the rarity and price that keeps folks like Saw loading up a U-Haul with the stuff and blowing up Imperial office blocks. Well, and the "Hit a speed bump and go kablewie" factor too.

* Speaking of crazy expensive, that stuff is CRAZY expensive. Those two suitcases Chewie was hauling around, that was what - probably a couple hundred kilograms of coaxium - and that was worth a million credits? (My number might be off, as I was still geeking out over Maul to pay close attention) So that means the 30 tons estimate aboard the train works out to about 27215 kilos. Divide that by the hundred and multiply by the million credits = goddamn! Now, the million credits was an off the cuff estimation from Solo and not an actual market appraisal, but it gives us a rough ballpark.

(Also, a tangential observation on price - that little sample of coaxium that Han had on Coreliia was - they said it was 600 credits worth, didnt they? Enough to buy a starship? That is an interesting wrinkle on the economy of the universe. Sure it would have been a 1978 Gremlin with four bald tires that they were buying, but we still have a ballpark price range for a low end ship now).

* So if just one squirt was enough to supercharge the Falcon's engines and a train car was enough to run an entire fleet, just what were those big ol' hoses pumping into the X-Wings on Yavin. I always assumed those were fuel lines, but clearly hoses that big pumping that much coaxium would be unacceptably explosive and prohibitively expensive for the credit strapped Rebels. So the X-Wings run on diesel while coaxium is gasoline?

* And those Field Secured Container Vessels (from the WEG module Black Ice), that haul one billion metric tons of starship grade fuel in each transport? That shipment just became worth a billion, billion credits and could blow a chunk out of a small moon. Since that doesn't make sense, they have to be carrying diesel, too.

Anything else?

So, here’s what the Official Guide says about coaxium—

Coaxium is a form of hypermatter - a precious substance that bridges the dimensions of “realspace” and hyperspace. It is an essential fuel for lightspeed travel. A thin coating of coaxium lines a ship’s hyperdrive reaction chamber, and when energized allows for transit into the dimension of hyperspace.

also

Refined coaxium is a far cry from the natural form of the substance. Ancient spacefarers discovered coaxium in the organs of purrgil - huge space-traveling creatures. The purrgil inhale space gases containing traces of the gas Clouzon-36, which they metabolize into a hypermatter fuel. This enables them to jump to hyperspace.

Diesel carries more energy than gasoline Desslok. Plus, the hoses were probably fuel for the realspace engines not the hyperdrive. Thats also why a drop so overcharged the Falcon's realspace drives, it was like a super nitrous boost. The reason you dont see it done much is that it could blow up the ship, and that one drop may have cost more than the Falcon itself.

Plus were not primitives here. 30 tons is 30000 kg.

Just in case you missed it, Qi'ra specifically calls out that the job was for 100 kg of coaxium. It stuck out in my mind because what she actually said was, "100 k grams," which was a weird way to say it.

For Kessel, I think it was less a factor of "nearby" and more a factor of "not a heavy Imperial presence," at least at that point in the timeline; per the Spark of Rebellion episode of Rebels Season 1 that's definitely changed, perhaps due in part to L3-37's droid-lead slave revolt. And it could have just been a storehouse that the Pyke Syndicate was using for unrefined coaxium they'd collected not only from Kessel (be it the planet/system itself or even nearby systems) until it could be sold to a proper refinery.

I think Han mentioned that those two cases were worth several million credits, but I could have heard wrong. The tiny vial that Han had was easily used to buy a stake in what was probably a fairly-high stacks sabacc game at the end.

As for the fueling scene in ANH, it was probably just regular fuel for the ion engines, of which starfighters would need a fair bit I suspect. As I understand it, and from what Nytwing posted, coaxium is generally used to provide the boost to get a ship into hyperspace, and that using the droplet they did in the Falcon's engines was more of a desperation tactic and not something they'd have ever considered doing on a routine basis.

Also it seemed like they were making a note of the Empire hoarding it. All kinds of economic and supply control there, and then the black market of course becomes the only other place to get it. The crime syndicates and anyone else who were looking to operate needed it so it's a very cool addition in my opinion.

Actually... the Millennium Falcon did the Kessel ESCAPE in less than 12 parsecs.. to me, the Kessel RUN is the 'in' journey... just saying, like ?

Thats in the next movie when Han shows Jabba why he's the best pilot ever.

Because of the droid brain hooked up to his ship.....

Ok so in the rebels show they also had some fuel based episodes which i suspect is for sublight fuel. Shall we add that info to the discussion. Oh dont remember the specifics...

I agree. It seems that coaxium is seemingly more important to create hyperdrives, notfuel them. But I also guess you might to renew it after a while. And the hifgh price is simply because at that time the empire is building star destroyers like crazy, plus the DS-1. So they probably need a huge amont, thus the hoarding, thus the inflated cost.

I love it when fiction makes economic sense!

It seems odd for the stuff to be that expensive, if it's required for all ships to travel in FTL, though. The Rebels never seemed to have problems keeping their Xwings fueled, unless I missed something in Rebels as I didn't watch it, which would seem to imply that whatever fuels hyperdrives is easily obtainable and not exorbitantly expensive.

Might it be a simply higher grade hyperspace fuel that gives better efficiency than other fuels?

My impression, opinions, and headcanon:

On 5/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, Desslok said:

Only found on Kessel? Unlikely - if that were the case, the Empire would have blockaded the crap out of the planet. It would have been the most hotly contested planet in the Clone Wars. And, more importantly, it probably would have been mined out ages and ages ago. So a source for coaxium, but not THE source for coaxium. Probably just the closest source to where Han was at the time.

They mention other locations, so Kessel is a source, not the source.

On 5/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, Desslok said:

It's crazy explosive. Even in it's stable form - and I use that term very loosely - a train car is enough to blow up an entire mountain. According to the internet, your average terrestrial CSX 50’ railroad boxcar can carry from 70 to 100 tons. That maglev boxcar wasn't packed to overflowing, so lets call it 30 tons of coaxium. Not a bad return on your bang for a buck, even being crazy expensive as it is. Its only the rarity and price that keeps folks like Saw loading up a U-Haul with the stuff and blowing up Imperial office blocks. Well, and the "Hit a speed bump and go kablewie" factor too.

* Speaking of crazy expensive, that stuff is CRAZY expensive. Those two suitcases Chewie was hauling around, that was what - probably a couple hundred kilograms of coaxium - and that was worth a million credits? (My number might be off, as I was still geeking out over Maul to pay close attention) So that means the 30 tons estimate aboard the train works out to about 27215 kilos. Divide that by the hundred and multiply by the million credits = goddamn! Now, the million credits was an off the cuff estimation from Solo and not an actual market appraisal, but it gives us a rough ballpark. 

Indeed. More to come in the following.

On 5/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, Desslok said:

(Also, a tangential observation on price - that little sample of coaxium that Han had on Coreliia was - they said it was 600 credits worth, didnt they? Enough to buy a starship? That is an interesting wrinkle on the economy of the universe. Sure it would have been a 1978 Gremlin with four bald tires that they were buying, but we still have a ballpark price range for a low end ship now).

500-800

Now... not sure I can correct it, but some talking points:

- Luke sells his Speeder for around 2,000 (or so we can assume).

- Ok, so it's hard to say as it fluxtuated in appraisal... so it was clearly a guess and Han and Kaleesi clearly didn't actually know exactly how much it was worth. To an extent I kinda got the feeling Kaleesi had a better idea of it's value than Han.

- So... later they dump the whole thing as a bribe to get offworld. So either they A) were improvising given the situation, planning to get offworld and figure it out from there... or B) They had other resources available not mentioned, and it was just their ticket off, or C) They planned to fence it, buy their way off, and use the change to get a ship, or D) They were gonna buy a ship and just fly away or E) They were going to buy a departure pass and steal a ship...

- Han was an Imperial Cadet on Carida... so guessing that as a Cadet he got food and basic supplies, but probably not much spending money. However....

-Han was then a Soldier... which one would assume included a paycheck. If he thought he could buy a ship for 500ish credits, then either he was totally wrong about ship values, or Imperial soldier pay is such garbage he couldn't buy a ship, or He was planning to tough out his term of service and go back to Corellia with ample funds to buy a decent ship, cover any debts Kaleesi had, and still have plenty of spending money left over.

- Ship types and value fluctuate wildly. A Junk shuttle on Corellia can be bought in the hundreds of credits, but the same craft might cost around 10,000 on Tatooine where anything high tech is harder to come by...

My personal headcanon: Han didn't really know the value. Kaleesi did. Her plan was to fence it fast, get offworld and sort it out from there. There's also at least a 50% probability she was going to ditch him. When things went sideways with Proxima they decided to dump it all to ensure the ability to leave, and hope for the best. Even so, the original plan was to steal a ship, and spend/trade the material for a departure pass and falsified ownership docs.

I suspect this will all be sorted in the novelization or something and this may have been an issue of the transition from the previous directors.

On 5/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, Desslok said:

So if just one squirt was enough to supercharge the Falcon's engines and a train car was enough to run an entire fleet, just what were those big ol' hoses pumping into the X-Wings on Yavin. I always assumed those were fuel lines, but clearly hoses that big pumping that much coaxium would be unacceptably explosive and prohibitively expensive for the credit strapped Rebels. So the X-Wings run on diesel while coaxium is gasoline?

Ok, so this one's easier to guess.

Coaxium isn't exactly fuel, it's just the best part of fuel. To get actual fuel, you mix coaxium with enspeesium and stabilizorum, and whateverelsium. This stabilizes the stuff and turns it into something you can burn at a controlled pace that also won't blow out your engines or vaporize everything within 1000m when your wookiee copilot farts too loud. Of course this mix also means an increase in total mass.

This would explain a bit, not just in relation to the X-wings, but also the Ghost. The canisters in Solo don't match what they got from the fuel/mining facility in Rebels either.

On 5/25/2018 at 1:08 PM, Desslok said:

And those Field Secured Container Vessels (from the WEG module Black Ice), that haul one billion metric tons of starship grade fuel in each transport? That shipment just became worth a billion, billion credits and could blow a chunk out of a small moon. Since that doesn't make sense, they have to be carrying diesel, too.

If you use my preceding assumption, this also sorts out this. Essentially the Black Ice carried roughly the same amount of Coaxium as the train, just fully processed into actual usable stabilized engine ready fuel.

1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

My impression, opinions, and headcanon:

They mention other locations, so Kessel is a source, not the source.

Indeed. More to come in the following.

500-800

Now... not sure I can correct it, but some talking points:

- Luke sells his Speeder for around 2,000 (or so we can assume).

- Ok, so it's hard to say as it fluxtuated in appraisal... so it was clearly a guess and Han and Kaleesi clearly didn't actually know exactly how much it was worth. To an extent I kinda got the feeling Kaleesi had a better idea of it's value than Han.

- So... later they dump the whole thing as a bribe to get offworld. So either they A) were improvising given the situation, planning to get offworld and figure it out from there... or B) They had other resources available not mentioned, and it was just their ticket off, or C) They planned to fence it, buy their way off, and use the change to get a ship, or D) They were gonna buy a ship and just fly away or E) They were going to buy a departure pass and steal a ship...

- Han was an Imperial Cadet on Carida... so guessing that as a Cadet he got food and basic supplies, but probably not much spending money. However....

-Han was then a Soldier... which one would assume included a paycheck. If he thought he could buy a ship for 500ish credits, then either he was totally wrong about ship values, or Imperial soldier pay is such garbage he couldn't buy a ship, or He was planning to tough out his term of service and go back to Corellia with ample funds to buy a decent ship, cover any debts Kaleesi had, and still have plenty of spending money left over.

- Ship types and value fluctuate wildly. A Junk shuttle on Corellia can be bought in the hundreds of credits, but the same craft might cost around 10,000 on Tatooine where anything high tech is harder to come by...

My personal headcanon: Han didn't really know the value. Kaleesi did. Her plan was to fence it fast, get offworld and sort it out from there. There's also at least a 50% probability she was going to ditch him. When things went sideways with Proxima they decided to dump it all to ensure the ability to leave, and hope for the best. Even so, the original plan was to steal a ship, and spend/trade the material for a departure pass and falsified ownership docs.

I suspect this will all be sorted in the novelization or something and this may have been an issue of the transition from the previous directors.

Ok, so this one's easier to guess.

Coaxium isn't exactly fuel, it's just the best part of fuel. To get actual fuel, you mix coaxium with enspeesium and stabilizorum, and whateverelsium. This stabilizes the stuff and turns it into something you can burn at a controlled pace that also won't blow out your engines or vaporize everything within 1000m when your wookiee copilot farts too loud. Of course this mix also means an increase in total mass.

This would explain a bit, not just in relation to the X-wings, but also the Ghost. The canisters in Solo don't match what they got from the fuel/mining facility in Rebels either.

If you use my preceding assumption, this also sorts out this. Essentially the Black Ice carried roughly the same amount of Coaxium as the train, just fully processed into actual usable stabilized engine ready fuel.

I get the impression coaxium is just for jumping to hyperspace. The fuel in rebels i think is for sublight engines. Smaller quantities for hyperspace jumping. Potentially a very small amount is needed to jump.

8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I get the impression coaxium is just for jumping to hyperspace. The fuel in rebels i think is for sublight engines. Smaller quantities for hyperspace jumping. Potentially a very small amount is needed to jump.

Also possible, but rebels throws a hydrospanner in that a bit with the space squids refueling to make a jump themselves....

The last jedi has the fuel be the same for both as well. They mention only enough for one jump then the ships would be out of fuel, or they can go along sublight as long as possible. If it were separate, they could have waited until the last minute then jumped the smaller ships away.

Blinding flash of the obvious:

Was thinking about this issue and realized something.

How many scenes REQUIRE the Macguffin to be explosive fuel? 2? 3?

What happens if you delete/replace/ modify those scenes, and make the Macguffin Spice?

Hmmmmm..... Feeling like it's an artifact of an early rewrite now...

On 5/25/2018 at 8:08 PM, Desslok said:

* Only found on Kessel? Unlikely - if that were the case, the Empire would have blockaded the crap out of the planet. It would have been the most hotly contested planet in the Clone Wars. And, more importantly, it probably would have been mined out ages and ages ago. So a source for coaxium, but not THE source for coaxium. Probably just the closest source to where Han was at the time.

It might be the only source of Coaxium, but coaxium is perhaps not the only useable HYPERFUEL (to quote the intro crawl-that-doesn't crawl), just a specific 'brand'.

I'm pretty sure Malastarre (where the Zillo Beast was?) was fighting over a fuel source.

Also, given that the falcon has a fusion reactor as well as hyperfuel systems, it still needs normal fusion material. The X-wings might have been bunkering up on liquid helium or some equivalent - after all, they weren't making a hyperspace jump, just flying around the planet to attack the death star.

16 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It might be the only source of Coaxium, but coaxium is perhaps not the only useable HYPERFUEL (to quote the intro crawl-that-doesn't crawl), just a specific 'brand'.

I'm pretty sure Malastarre (where the Zillo Beast was?) was fighting over a fuel source.

Also, given that the falcon has a fusion reactor as well as hyperfuel systems, it still needs normal fusion material. The X-wings might have been bunkering up on liquid helium or some equivalent - after all, they weren't making a hyperspace jump, just flying around the planet to attack the death star.

Come to think of it, in Rogue One, when the squadrons are ordered to Scarif, while the pilots scramble to their ships, the techs connect the hoses, rather than disconnect them. Adding a hyperfuel to make the jump?

6 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Also possible, but rebels throws a hydrospanner in that a bit with the space squids refueling to make a jump themselves....

The Purrgil have Coaxium traces in their body. Coaxium is still "just" hypermatter, needed for hyperjumps.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/coaxium

Quote

Coaxium is a rare form of hypermatter that is essential for faster-than-light travel. Starships’ hyperdrive reaction chambers are coated with a thin layer of coaxium, which is energized to allow passage into hyperspace. Unrefined coaxium is mined on worlds such as Kessel, but is dangerous to transport. Highly volatile, it explodes if jostled or allowed to get too hot.

Sounds more like a catalyst.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/purrgil

Quote

PURRGIL
Massive, whale-like creatures, purrgil lived not on land or sea, but in space, and were the stuff of legend for the galaxy’s smugglers and pilots. They were often a bluish purple color and moved gracefully thanks to four large hind tentacles, along with two side fins and a dorsal fin. Purrgil required a specific green gas in order to breathe, which allowed them to travel great distances through the space. While very few have seen it, purrgil had the ability to travel through hyperspace.

From the official guide, repost from @Nytwyng

Quote

Coaxium is a form of hypermatter - a precious substance that bridges the dimensions of “realspace” and hyperspace. It is an essential fuel for lightspeed travel. A thin coating of coaxium lines a ship’s hyperdrive reaction chamber, and when energized allows for transit into the d imension of hyperspace.

Quote

Refined coaxium is a far cry from the natural form of the substance. Ancient spacefarers discovered coaxium in the organs of purrgil - huge space-traveling creatures. The purrgil inhale space gases containing traces of the gas Clouzon-36, which they metabolize into a hypermatter fuel. This enables them to jump to hyperspace.

14 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The Purrgil have Coaxium traces in their body. Coaxium is still "just" hypermatter, needed for hyperjumps.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/coaxium

Sounds more like a catalyst.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/purrgil

From the official guide, repost from @Nytwyng

Huh, always read the databank entry...

So yeah, those descriptions make it sound like the stuff isn't so much fuel as something you need to make the fuel work, especially or specifically when talking jumping to hyperspace.

This new lore might need some changes to FFGs Fully Operational. It seems like the hyperdrive is the most expensive part of ship, based on the coaxium requirements needed to build one and it seems like part of the fuel requirements is add new Coaxium coating to your reaction chamber.

This makes sense in context of hyper-drive fighters being rare expensive and carriers being king in star wars and as well how traveling itself is dirt cheap.

My take on it is that Coaxium (Koaxium? sp?) is hyperdrive fuel.
Whatever was being pumped into the X-wings on Yavin was sublight fuel.

Which is also why the falcon went nuts in the Maw, since they injected hyperdrive fuel into what is essentially the sublight drive. (or the "reactor").

EDIT: NEVERMIND, LOOK BELOW.

2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

This new lore might need some changes to FFGs Fully Operational. It seems like the hyperdrive is the most expensive part of ship, based on the coaxium requirements needed to build one and it seems like part of the fuel requirements is add new Coaxium coating to your reaction chamber.

This makes sense in context of hyper-drive fighters being rare expensive and carriers being king in star wars and as well how traveling itself is dirt cheap.

Huh, you're right.

It's not a fuel... it's an element needed in the creation of Hyperdrives...

Makes sense.

2 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

This new lore might need some changes to FFGs Fully Operational. It seems like the hyperdrive is the most expensive part of ship, based on the coaxium requirements needed to build one and it seems like part of the fuel requirements is add new Coaxium coating to your reaction chamber.

This makes sense in context of hyper-drive fighters being rare expensive and carriers being king in star wars and as well how traveling itself is dirt cheap.

Which explains how not making a TIE/ln sublight only is such a saving.

Keep in mind that it might be slowly consumed in the process as well, making it fuel again, but still a requirement in the build process and expensive to replace.