Started my SoB campaign today with me as the OL. A question came up that I didn't really have an answer for.

During island levels (and possibly outdoor encounters) Is it possible for the heroes to jump from the Revenge onto land, or at least as far away from the ship as possible to avoid the loss of fatigue/wounds when entering the water?

Also, could the heroes use a rope to swing out from the ship and just land in the water?

Jonny WS said:

Jumping? Maybe. Probably in fact.
Strictly speaking jumping is only allowed over certain obstacles that explicitly say that you may jump over them. However it is fairly reasonable to extend that to all non-impassable obstacles, which would include deep water. A number of faq answers have implications that this is the case (actually, usually the questions have such an implication and they are treated as normal by the answer-er, implying that the question is ok).
You would still have to pay the fatigue cost of any water space you landed in though. This is explicit in the FAQ, Pg4 although I think this is a badly worded question that simply creates more questions.

Swing on a rope? Yes.
SoB pg25
The ropes are used to swing across the water to board another ship. When a figure mans a rope, he rolls one red die and one yellow die. He then moves directly out from the ship’s side (as shown in “Example: Swinging on a Rope” below) a number of spaces equal to the rolled range. The swinging figure may pass through figures and ignores any effects from terrain passed through. However, the effects of any terrain the figure ends his swing in still takes effect.

The boarding another ship part is descriptive text rather than mechanical text. The mechanics of using a rope do not require landing on another ship and implicitly include the possibility of not landing on another ship (if your range is not enough to reach).

Would using a rope ever really be worth it if you could jump over? I mean it's possible to roll only 1 range with the rope and move LESS than you would by jumping. I've wondered this point to, but it then made me wonder if it would ever be worth swinging on a rope if you could jump instead, especially if you aren't standing on top of the rope to begin with since you have to spend MPs to get to it. Still, the rules do seem to imply that you can jump over deep or shallow water, they even state that figures in the water may not jump (and what else would there be to jump over if you were already in the water other than more water?).

Kartigan said:

Yes, definitely worth it.

It costs 3 MP per space you jump over. So to jump over just 1 space (ie, move 2 spaces) costs 3 MP and another 3MP for each extra space.

Manning a rope costs 3 MP. Sure it is possible to roll only 1 space - 1/18! But the average range is 3+ (costing 6MP to jump that far) and you have a 1/9 chance of range 5 (12MP to jump).

Hmmm, okay I do see your point about using the rope. That one is easy.

But jumping from the ship is a little more vague. In theory, you could stand on the edge of the Revenge, and declare a RUN action and just jump as far as possible spending all your fatigue and even a vitality potion. With the Revenge starting (usually) pretty close to a sandbar the heroes could never need to get their feet wet.

This seems a little too strong IMO. I will submit my question to FFG and see what comes of it.

Jonny WS said:

This is just my gut reaction, but I say "no" to the idea of drinking a vitality potion mid-jump. Jumping is a movement action, drinking is a movement action. You can do either at any point during your turn, but you can't interrupt one to do the other. Of course, drinking a vitality potion before or after the jump would be fine, but it also wouldn't help you jump farther than your normal full fatigue would allow.

None of this invalidates the main point you were making, of course. I'm just saying the most a hero could jump is slightly less than this implies. In my opinion.

You can convert all your fatigue to MP (not spend it; converting fat. to MP is not a movement action and can be done anytime during a hero´s turn) then drink a vit.potion with 1 MP and convert the replenished fatigue to MP as well.

So, a running Silhouette (5 speed / 5 fatigue) with a vit. potion would have 19 MP available to jump across 6 spaces in one go.

But in my book you are not allowed to jump any obtacles besides the ones mentioned in the rules.

Parathion said:

While this is technically the way the rule is worded, I'd never considered interpreting it this way. I can't decide if I like this interpretation or not.

I had read somewhere that players used this mechanic to avoid spending fatigue on Corrupted terrain.

Jonny WS said:

No, stop, wait!

One of the possible reasons that FFg are so bad at answering questions is that they get a lot of a) stupid (meaning there is already a fairly clear answer in the rules) and b)vague or badly worded (meaning that the question itself is unclear and therefore so is the answer) questions.
Consequently it is a much better idea to put questions here 9meaning the forum) and get them discussed. First, you might get a clear answer that you have missed in the rules anyway. Second, a discussion can end up with a carefully crafted question that is clear in intent and doesn't contain basic rules errors. Ideally, we can also provide various carefully crafted answers that FFG can easily choose from, thus reducing the effort required for them to a) research the question and b) make sure their answer makes sense.

Now I'm not saying that your question would be badly worded or anything and I don't have the right to stop anyone asking questions, but let me give you an example from exactly this question and see if you don't agree that it might be better to craft questions carefully as a group effort rather than send them in willy-nilly so to speak.

exQ1. Can heroes jump over water in SoB encounters?
exA1. Yes (or no, but just as an example).
Now this gets the answer but leaves us in the dark as to whether it is possible to jump over other non-impassable obstacles that aren't specifically jump-over-able. Which means that sooner or later FFG will get another question which is basiclaly the same. And another one. And another one.
It also leaves the possibility of a misunderstanding giving a completely wrong answer. Suppose the answer was 'No'. Now it could be that the intended answer was really yes but the answer-er was lazy and just read can you jump over water and so immediately said no. Sadly, we've had perverse rulings that seem to be due to this sort of factor before.

exQ2. Can heroes jump over non-impassable obstacles such as deep water (SoB), boneheaps(RtL) or ice(ToI)? Can heroes jump over empty spaces if they wish to avoid entering them?
exA2a. Heroes may jump over any space whether it contains non-impassable obstacle or is empty. They are not restricted to jumping only over obstacles that explicity allow jumping over. They may not jump over figures that they cannot pass through.
exA2b. Heroes may only jump over obstacles that they are specifically allowed to jump over. They may not jump over any other spaces.
exA2c. Heroes may jump over any non-impassable obstacle but may not jump over empty spaces.
By FFG choosing one of the three answers we get a much clearer 'answer' that we can trust a little more than a simple yes or no. The answer is more explicit, covers more things and is less likely to have been messed up by misunderstanding the question.

mahkra said:

It is not an 'interpretation', it is literally following the rules.

For some actions that require large MP expenditure it is the only possible way to do so - for example Thorn's teleport ability during a battle action.

Jonny WS said:

Why strong? The hero spent an entire action, all their fatigue and a fatigue pot to move 4-6 spaces. Ouch!

Corbon said:

Corbon, everything is interpretation. If we don't interpret the words, they're just words. When we read the words, we establish meaning for those words in our minds. That is interpretation. But this is just semantics.

The Descent rules have many ambiguities and inconsistencies, so it can be a dangerous practice to try to follow "the letter of the rules" in every instance. The game "works" a lot better if one reads all of the rules and tries to make sense of them as a whole. Thus, more often than not, we as readers / players are forced to interpret an implied meaning and make a determination on how to apply the rules to our own game.

Here's the text from the JitD rules:

Spending Fatigue for Movement
At any time during a hero’s turn, he may spend one fatigue to gain one movement point, even if he is currently taking the battle action. This may be done as often as the hero desires. Movement points gained in this manner are spent just like normal movement points.

This says they are spent like normal movement points, but it doesn't specifically state when they are spent. Are they spent immediately? (This would not prevent you from spending fatigue for multiple-MP-actions, such as to climb out of a pit; it would require that 2 fatigue points are converted to movement and spent simultaneously.) Can they be saved to be 'spent' later in the turn?

Also, if you want to be really anal about the rules, does the word "spent" mean that you cannot use fatigue to move? The movement rules say that players " use " one fatigue to move to an adjacent space, and they say that players "can also choose to spend their movement points on performing actions instead of moving". Movement points from fatigue can be spent , but who knows if they can be used ?

And if you want to read the rules very strictly, it gets even messier. Using something does not necessarily imply that you do not have it any more; "using" is not strictly the same as "using up". But I would interpret the statement that you "use one fatigue to move" as to mean you spend that fatigue and no longer have it.

He He He well im The one who Jumped off the boat -But was never told about any Rope shame shame JWS He He He Anywhooo i jumped off the Ship and still had to enter water tiles using Fatigue and i find it hard enough to set up properly in the Island map so any advantage the Heroes can get on the Island map aka abuse of the rules i find to be useful

Ah, sorry Corbin...I had already sent the question in after posting that. I forget what I wrote exactly, but it was along the lines of "Can heroes jump from the Revenge to land as far away as possible from the Revenge during island levels (and encounters)

Again, that is probably not it word for word...but it was 5:30ish in the morning when I wrote it. lol

I do agree with you though, that forming all the possible answers here first, and then submitting them is a good way of doing things. We really should implement the "Rules council" for this purpose.

I would also like to say that I have a fairly good understanding of how the rules in Descent work...and how to word a question with some skill. Years of gaming has made me this way.

I will wait for an answer, and get back to you as soon as I hear.

Thanks for input