38 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

SFO is just one point

I was going to reply but i was ninja'ed

31 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

SFO is a discard, so is a one time use...

SFO only allows you to jump to the next dial... what happens if the next dial is also the 'wrong' one for the situation?

Lol.

Sfo, sure cheap and allows you to mitigate slicers slightly, but it doesnt offer the high flexibility of choosing one dial from 2 different dials a round, the one you have an officer for and the one you chose.

Plus sfo wont help with cham syndulla.

Not saying SFO isnt good or useful, i often shove it onto ships with the officer space free, but i still prefer the 6pt officers on medium or large ships if i have the points. (Small ships often dont care, exception=yavaris, pelta)

1 hour ago, slasher956 said:

SFO is a discard, so is a one time use...

SFO only allows you to jump to the next dial... what happens if the next dial is also the 'wrong' one for the situation?

29 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

I was going to reply but i was ninja'ed

Lol.

Sfo, sure cheap and allows you to mitigate slicers slightly, but it doesnt offer the high flexibility of choosing one dial from 2 different dials a round, the one you have an officer for and the one you chose.

Plus sfo wont help with cham syndulla.

Not saying SFO isnt good or useful, i often shove it onto ships with the officer space free, but i still prefer the 6pt officers on medium or large ships if i have the points. (Small ships often dont care, exception=yavaris, pelta)

We are talking about wing commander who only allows you to choose one command. SFO works on every situation wing commander does but Charm Syndulla (very meta reason) and slicer on subsequent rounds (very bad played for you again). So he is 5 points cheaper allowing to do exactly the same 99% time. Being able to command engineer knowing you are wanting squadron is not a true advantage, you just need to command squadron and being able to have the other command in the right time. SFO does that by less.

This thread is the biggest **** measuring contest I've seen in a while.

"Oh no, this upgrade is good cuz I played it back in wave 2 and it worked!"

"This upgrade is good cuz it lets me counter X!"

Just because some old, obscure, very niche, nonmeta fleet ran that upgrade and won some games does not make it a "good" upgrade. Probably not back in the wave it released in, and certainly not now. Where are the masses of fleets winning tournaments with HTT/ST/command officers or any other of the upgrades mentioned in this thread?

If anyone thinks those upgrades are worth running, then they should show us how effective they are in the current meta.

3 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

This thread is the biggest **** measuring contest I've seen in a while.

"Oh no, this upgrade is good cuz I played it back in wave 2 and it worked!"

"This upgrade is good cuz it lets me counter X!"

Just because some old, obscure, very niche, nonmeta fleet ran that upgrade and won some games does not make it a "good" upgrade. Probably not back in the wave it released in, and certainly not now. Where are the masses of fleets winning tournaments with HTT/ST/command officers or any other of the upgrades mentioned in this thread?

If anyone thinks those upgrades are worth running, then they should show us how effective they are in the current meta.

SOMEBODY Needs a hug....jeez....

I had a kitten cuddle with me once, and it was a good experience. But you are right, I should punch all cats now.....

5 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

This thread is the biggest **** measuring contest I've seen in a while.

"Oh no, this upgrade is good cuz I played it back in wave 2 and it worked!"

"This upgrade is good cuz it lets me counter X!"

Just because some old, obscure, very niche, nonmeta fleet ran that upgrade and won some games does not make it a "good" upgrade. Probably not back in the wave it released in, and certainly not now. Where are the masses of fleets winning tournaments with HTT/ST/command officers or any other of the upgrades mentioned in this thread?

If anyone thinks those upgrades are worth running, then they should show us how effective they are in the current meta.

point 1 - just because it is in a winning tournament doesnt mean its 'good' nor does not being there make it 'bad'

point 2 - meta a is not the same as meta b

point 3 - yes I do run command officers hence why I said it

point 4 - my earlier comments about SFO where in regards to the counter argument against command officers NOT an argument against SFOs as a seperate choice

point 5 - main one - surely the fact that everyone is in disagreement about what is a bad card means that they are all playable (even if only in limited scope) therefore making an inclusive system?

1 hour ago, moodswing5537 said:

SOMEBODY Needs a hug....jeez....

I had a kitten cuddle with me once, and it was a good experience. But you are right, I should punch all cats now.....

Can we compare cats while we are at it? I need to know which cat is the best at cuddling, and but all I have is anecdotal evidence that cannot be supported, nor refuted. Therefore, both my cats are the best at cuddling.

1 hour ago, slasher956 said:

point 1 - just because it is in a winning tournament doesnt mean its 'good' nor does not being there make it 'bad'

point 2 - meta a is not the same as meta b

point 3 - yes I do run command officers hence why I said it

point 4 - my earlier comments about SFO where in regards to the counter argument against command officers NOT an argument against SFOs as a seperate choice

point 5 - main one - surely the fact that everyone is in disagreement about what is a bad card means that they are all playable (even if only in limited scope) therefore making an inclusive system?

Winning tournaments is the standard that is accepted by the majority of the forums to demonstrate something as being "good". It's also generally accepted that each tournament scene has it's own meta. Therefore, if you want to prove to the community a upgrade you use is "good", you should win MULTIPLE tournaments with it, with at least 1 being a regional. If you win 1 tournament, the forums will not accept that as adequate evidence to support your claim.

Let me stress these are not my own guidelines, but rather the guidelines that are used by the majority of people. They evolved over many months of discussion. Hence my comment about this thread being "who's got the biggest **** and the best upgrade". But hey, ya'll enjoy discussing you're crazy niche fleets so whatever.

19 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Can we compare cats while we are at it? I need to know which cat is the best at cuddling, and but all I have is anecdotal evidence that cannot be supported, nor refuted. Therefore, both my cats are the best at cuddling.

Ill buy this. Cats are GREAT cuddlers. Except that one cat that didn't want to cuddle once. He should always be punched....(and I think most of the thread gave reasons for their likes of cards, so not sure what evidence qualifies, honestly. )

Can we all just cuddle some cats, I mean really?

8 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

Ill buy this. Cats are GREAT cuddlers. Except that one cat that didn't want to cuddle once. He should always be punched....(and I think most of the thread gave reasons for their likes of cards, so not sure what evidence qualifies, honestly. )

Can we all just cuddle some cats, I mean really?

That's my point. There is no working definition, that I saw, that says what is "good". It is "I always want to have X" or "I want to win tournaments by being counter meta" or something else. With no definition, this thread is what you get. A bunch of people talking past each other because they all have their own idea of what is good. Cuz honestly, if it's not something I made, it's not good. That means everything everyone else plays is bad, and I'm the best cuz I've never lost a world championship. And my cats support me on this, because they love me thanks to Stockholm Syndrome.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

That's my point. There is no working definition, that I saw, that says what is "good". It is "I always want to have X" or "I want to win tournaments by being counter meta" or something else. With no definition, this thread is what you get. A bunch of people talking past each other because they all have their own idea of what is good. Cuz honestly, if it's not something I made, it's not good. That means everything everyone else plays is bad, and I'm the best cuz I've never lost a world championship. And my cats support me on this, because they love me thanks to Stockholm Syndrome.

**** you, you countered me with CUTENESS! ?

But I see where you are coming from. Honestly, with no guidelines, this kind of conversation can stray. I mean, look at just our part. The OP was what BAD cards.....This is why I day drink....

damit... pictures too big

was just going to add a picture of my pair being too busy hugging each other to give out hugs

:(

5 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

**** you, you countered me with CUTENESS! ?

But I see where you are coming from. Honestly, with no guidelines, this kind of conversation can stray. I mean, look at just our part. The OP was what BAD cards.....This is why I day drink....

Is not what are the worst?

I mean cause Yavaris is the worst neb title. It literally does nothing if you go 0 squadrons. You can always consider putting Salvation or Redemption. Yavaris is crap ?

53 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Can we compare cats while we are at it? I need to know which cat is the best at cuddling, and but all I have is anecdotal evidence that cannot be supported, nor refuted. Therefore, both my cats are the best at cuddling.

I saw a guy at PetSmart the other day cuddling with a cat, but I don’t know if it was cuddling him back. It also might be a regional thing that doesn’t hold true nationally or in bigger cities.

6 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Is not what are the worst?

I mean cause Yavaris is the worst neb title. It literally does nothing if you go 0 squadrons. You can always consider putting Salvation or Redemption. Yavaris is crap ?

Sloane’s pretty bad too. Heard of a list where the guy had only bounty hunter rogues (Boba, Bossk, and IG-88). Just did nothing for him. Therefore Tagge is better than Sloane and must therefore be good.

Getting back to the discussion... I think my contenders for the worst/useless cards in the game are Director Isard or Heavy Turbolaser Turrets. Part of the reason why is because they're effect is rather redundant.

You have Slicer tools? It doesn't matter which ship you hit- it's going to be devastating for any un-activated ship to suddenly be deprived of the command it has banked... Unless it's a ship that can make use of any command, such as fighter-pushing Speed 2 ISDs that are starting to exchange shots. You don't need Isard to tell you what ships to hit with your Slicer tools- if you're a good player you already know what ship(s) you want to mess with.

There is literally nothing you can do with the information that Isard provides you. Slicer tools will always take off the top dial- it's not like you can use her to find which dial in the stack to affect. In X-Wing, knowing the maneuver of your opponent is pretty deterministic. That's not the case here in Armada with the command dials.

Heavy Turbolasers are a bad card because Brace is the most often used defense token when absorbing battery damage, so an opponent hit with this will shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I won't get the 1-2 shields I needed from the side arc, but at least I've cut 6 damage down to 3". XI7s will meanwhile force an opponent to use their Brace anyway, but they might use a redirect to get that 1 point of damage of the side arc. That's 2 exhausted defense tokens wheras HTLs only exhaust one.

Besides, this card does nothing when targeting ships that don't have brace tokens, wheras XI7s do.