15 minutes ago, JadinED said:Not to be cynical, but...
That's not a useless card, but a straighforward way to make sure your opponent with big ships doesn't conveniently and surprisingly has the perfect command every single round...
Agreed, with no range limit you can use it turn one to see what's in that big ol' stack of dials on the enemy ship and, then, know what they're planning a bit better. And it works every turn
How has no one mentioned Cluster Bombs? 5 points for a discard to hit one squad with 4 blue dice is trash in any slot, but in the life-saving defensive retrofit? Comically bad.
11 minutes ago, JacobBodmer said:How has no one mentioned Cluster Bombs? 5 points for a discard to hit one squad with 4 blue dice is trash in any slot, but in the life-saving defensive retrofit? Comically bad.
waiting for Gink to link some obscure list from 3 years ago that might have won a game once.
Edited by dominosfleet3 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:waiting for Gink to link some obscure list from 3 years ago that might have won a game once.
Not me. JJ
Thread name updated to better reflect the tread.
I feel like someone brought a wet blanket to the fun "Hate on Armada Cards" game. How are we supposed to get all worked up about the badness of cards if people keep pointing out how great they are?
I might as well just say I hate APTs. They're easier to remember and it will get the same response 
Also, the thread says "worst" cards not "useless" cards. So it's all about ranking them. In the group of cards we have, something has to be the worst even if it's useful sometimes.
1 minute ago, durandal343 said:I might as well just say I hate APTs. They're easier to remember and it will get the same response
APTs cost 5pts for 1 bonus damage. ACMs cost 7pts for 2 bonus damage. Expanded Racks cost 3pts for average 2 bonus damage once.
I know how I see that scale balancing.
1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:APTs cost 5pts for 1 bonus damage. ACMs cost 7pts for 2 bonus damage. Expanded Racks cost 3pts for average 2 bonus damage once.
I know how I see that scale balancing.
I will always be on the APT boat. I love dealing faceup cards. Though I don't like black dice ships for the most part so as much as i like them I don't use them often.
3 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:APTs cost 5pts for 1 bonus damage. ACMs cost 7pts for 2 bonus damage. Expanded Racks cost 3pts for average 2 bonus damage once.
I know how I see that scale balancing.
Why am I falling into your trap....... APTs get you a crit
Edited by durandal3433 minutes ago, durandal343 said:Also, the thread says "worst" cards not "useless" cards. So it's all about ranking them. In the group of cards we have, something has to be the worst even if it's useful sometimes.
40 minutes ago, durandal343 said:Of course, that did not take into account a double arc where the ST would not be used twice. Or shooting with both sides (Ackbar)
If you read a few posts down in that thread, I explain why I didn't give or take credit for that. Not better than OE, just different. OE is much better in most scenarios, particularly if you're fishing for crits. In the particular build under comparison, ST is better.
Just now, Ardaedhel said:If you read a few posts down in that thread, I explain why I didn't give or take credit for that. Not better than OE, just different. OE is much better in most scenarios, particularly if you're fishing for crits. In the particular build under comparison, ST is better.
Very specific parameters then
36 minutes ago, JacobBodmer said:How has no one mentioned Cluster Bombs? 5 points for a discard to hit one squad with 4 blue dice is trash in any slot, but in the life-saving defensive retrofit? Comically bad.
Becayse it saves 3 damage over the course of a game on average... Like EVERY defensive that’s not ECM or EWS?
Edited by Drasnighta1 minute ago, durandal343 said:Very specific parameters then
That's the point. Worst? Why? It is not in that fleet. Do we have to count every possible build and check how many times an upgrade beats another to be able to say one is worse than the other?
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:Becayse it saves 3 damage over the course of a game... Like EVERY defensive that’s not ECM or EWS?
Just curious on the calculation there.. not doubting.. curious
1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:That's the point. Worst? Why? It is not in that fleet. Do we have to count every possible build and check how many times an upgrade beats another to be able to say one is worse than the other?
I'm going to have to update the name of the thread again to "generally bad upgrades in every slot..." to appease people.
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:Becayse it saves 3 damage over the course of a game... Like EVERY defensive that’s not ECM or EWS?
May I ask how is it? Completely serious question. I am wondering how to calculate that.
3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:Becayse it saves 3 damage over the course of a game... Like EVERY defensive that’s not ECM or EWS?
The question is whether you’ll kill that squadron (And whether they’re planning to target you with squadrons anyway.) Unlike the other retros, it’s a very conditional 3 damage.
Edited by The JabbawookieJust now, ovinomanc3r said:That's the point. Worst? Why? It is not in that fleet. Do we have to count every possible build and check how many times an upgrade beats another to be able to say one is worse than the other?
Well this is much deeper than I thought this thread would get. I suppose, in something like this, you'd have to go on general perceived usefulness. You'd have to take into account the cost, slot it uses, effect it has, etc. Mostly I thought it would just be shoot from the hip opinion but alas, here we are.
1 minute ago, dominosfleet said:I'm going to have to update the name of the thread again to "generally bad upgrades in every slot..." to appease people.
Highly scientific ranking of upgrade cards based on infinite parameters that are hard to compare to each other.
5 minutes ago, durandal343 said:Just curious on the calculation there.. not doubting.. curious
Assuming a single black die bomber, it either allows you to kill the target 3 rounds early (thus subjecting you to 3 less black die bombs of average of 1.0 damage) with your flak, or outright discourages your opponent to shoot you, doing the same.
duscorage for 3 rounds = saves 3 damage.
AP = saves you the damage that you normally wouldn’t be taking on your non target side... which is 2 or 3 shields.
RBD = 3 damage heaked.
Redundant shields triggers in the end phase, so it generally won’t trigger in round 1, and any triggering in round 6 is irrelevant...
Onky ECM and EWS have, respectively, the ability to save you more than 3 points if danage in a game- against large dice pools and bombing runs respectively.
Edited by DrasnightaJust now, dominosfleet said:I'm going to have to update the name of the thread again to "generally bad upgrades in every slot..." to appease people.
I am fine. I understand both, Gink and you. I agree with his point but I also get what you are trying here. To contribute to the OP I will say those 6 points command officers and I wonder if @Ginkapo knows a fleet where they are the best possible officer to choose, even better than just bid.
1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:I am fine. I understand both, Gink and you. I agree with his point but I also get what you are trying here. To contribute to the OP I will say those 6 points command officers and I wonder if @Ginkapo knows a fleet where they are the best possible officer to choose, even better than just bid.
I honestly view those officers as training wheels. I do view the 3 point variants as viable in Leia or, to a lesser extent, tarkin fleets.
2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:Assuming a single black die bomber, it either allows you to kill the target 3 rounds early (thus subjecting you to 3 less black die bombs of average of 1.0 damage) with your flak, or outright discourages your opponent to shoot you, doing the same.
duscorage for 3 rounds = saves 3 damage.
AP = saves you the damage that you normally wouldn’t be taking on your non target side... which is 2 or 3 shields.
RBD = 3 damage heaked.
Tedundant shields triggers in the end phase, so it generally won’t trugger in round 1, and any triggering in round 6 is irrelevant...
I see. The good news are that enemy BCC make them better ?