I have a player that wants to be "the guy in the chair". The one that stays in a speeder/ship/bunker somewhere and slices enemy systems, takes control of turrets, unlocks doors, etc.
I'm thinking that not everything can be sliced remotely and it may be more difficult than he thinks. Thoughts/suggestions?
Remember that Star Wars is an analog future. Few wireless connections exist, and most of them could be considered read-only. If you want to get access to something, you'll need to find the physical access point and slice in there.
Yep, analog. Sure, some of the new fiction showed remote slicing, but it’s limited. The most blatant example is probably the Rebels episode “Double Agent Droid.” Even in that, there are a few special circumstances:
- The Listener ship was designed by the Empire, in part, to facilitate such activity. (So it’s rare, specialized equipment that would draw attention in civilian hands.)
- Chopper had to physically connect to a port that the Listener ship had accessed legitimately in order to be sliced and controlled remotely.
- Hera sent a feedback signal along the already-established wireless data channel..she didn’t create a new one.
Compare that to Rogue One, in which Bodhi had to make a physical connection to the citadel’s communications system just to boost his signal.
So, unless there’s some very specialized equipment involved, a Star Wars “guy in the chair” (thank you, Spider-Man: Homecoming, for giving us a fun term for what has become a stock character type ? ) would be more of a “guy following the group with a datapad.” Or at least be in his chair on site where he can access the appropriate systems.
Ultimately it's up to you to decide how these things work. The original trilogy clearly depicted needing a hard connection to do much of anything, but the EotE books list "slicing enemy systems" as something that you can do in space combat. I myself am in the 'hard connection' camp.
Maybe if the PC had access to a large group of minions they could boss around? A fleet of mouse droids, or disgruntled utility personnel (and gathering the group could be a plot hook in itself). Maybe more the beginning part of mission impossible one, though hopefully without the crew getting wiped out one by one...
It's a starting group for an upcoming AoR session. The selection was a base of operations for that big boost of credits.
My thought is that if it functions remotely, like a remote, then you may be able to slice it remotely. But anything attached to a larger grid/structure is going to need direct access. Installing a backdoor for remote access may be possible, but is not a guarantee and is not permanent.
The problem is that we have a rotating GM seat and we all feel different about it.
That last part makes it tricky. Whatever the conclusion, all of the GMs need to reach some common ground first. Otherwise, one of you will inevitably get, “But the other GM let me do it! I hate you! You’re not my real GM!” from your slicer.
4 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:Otherwise, one of you will inevitably get, “But the other GM let me do it! I hate you! You’re not my real GM!” from your slicer.
Story of my GM life.
I say No to this when ever it comes up because the HoloNet functioning as an internet is problematic to maintaining the feel of the setting. I think wireless connections into main computers would have gone the way of the dodo after a few historical catastrophes brought on by remote hacks hitting hardened and necessary-for-survival-of-the-people targets.
14 hours ago, Archlyte said:I say No to this when ever it comes up because the HoloNet functioning as an internet is problematic to maintaining the feel of the setting. I think wireless connections into main computers would have gone the way of the dodo after a few historical catastrophes brought on by remote hacks hitting hardened and necessary-for-survival-of-the-people targets.
I agree with Archlyte, i would say that remote access is absolutely a thing but any computer system that takes security even half seriously will not have a remote access point. Slicing technology is far to advanced to be blocked in the Star Wars universe so system isolation is the best form of defence against unauthorized intrusion. Well at least that's how I explain away a movie conceived and filmed in a time before Wi-Fi.
One possible solution would be for the rest of the team to carry remote access widgets. Basically a wireless connection linked to a physical interface. They place them on the ports and the guy in the chair can start his hacks. But it wouldn't be a matter of one and done. They would have to carry a couple around to connect as needed.
Best way to do guy in a chair is remote controlling people to slice for you. He could hook up a cyborg to a remote control or he could do the same things with droids. (This works even better if he’s a Verpine)
57 minutes ago, Ahrimon said:One possible solution would be for the rest of the team to carry remote access widgets. Basically a wireless connection linked to a physical interface. They place them on the ports and the guy in the chair can start his hacks. But it wouldn't be a matter of one and done. They would have to carry a couple around to connect as needed.
With a nod to the reality that you can run Star Wars however you want, I would say that in the movies and shows what you see is stuff a lot like fantasy storylines: storming the castle, rescuing the princess, encountering the dragon in his lair. If you can make the "magic" of slicing work in a Fantasy way that feels like it would belong in a story about magic and kings and dragons then I think it can work. Merlin scrying and seeing Arthur heading for trouble, etc. I think that the more sci-fi it feels though the weaker the story is as compared to what I would call AAA Star Wars. Some of the pulp novelists for instance regard it simply as a sci-fi setting and I think it shows in their work, which is often pretty tepid and starts to feel like it has a tenuous relationship with archetypal Star Wars at best.
18 hours ago, Archlyte said:I think wireless connections into main computers would have gone the way of the dodo after a few historical catastrophes brought on by remote hacks hitting hardened and necessary-for-survival-of-the-people targets.
Not really. This is a common myth, kind of irritating to keep hearing about because I'm in the biz, as it were. Nobody remote hacks today, with a few minor exceptions, like someone forgot to turn on their wifi authentication. All the major hacks happen because someone is on the ground, or has inside information. Or they cold call you, pretending to be from "Windows Service Center, your machine is acting up and can you please let me log in to fix it?" These days, "hacking" is very much more about social manipulation than technical expertise. The servers that have the valuables are walled off from the public face, with strict protocols for data transfer between them, so you have to have a way in granted from the inside.
In the end, yes, you have to be on site (or have a mole), but not because "it's Star Wars and not RL". It's because that's the way it works in both.
But this:
18 hours ago, Archlyte said:I say No to this when ever it comes up because the HoloNet functioning as an internet is problematic to maintaining the feel of the setting.
Can't agree. There are many examples to the contrary in TCW and Rebels, it seems clear the HoloNet is pretty much the internet (under the Empire being more like the Chinese version), but adding in the difficulties and expense of interstellar data transmission.
20 minutes ago, whafrog said:Not really. This is a common myth, kind of irritating to keep hearing about because I'm in the biz, as it were. Nobody remote hacks today, with a few minor exceptions, like someone forgot to turn on their wifi authentication. All the major hacks happen because someone is on the ground, or has inside information. Or they cold call you, pretending to be from "Windows Service Center, your machine is acting up and can you please let me log in to fix it?" These days, "hacking" is very much more about social manipulation than technical expertise. The servers that have the valuables are walled off from the public face, with strict protocols for data transfer between them, so you have to have a way in granted from the inside.
In the end, yes, you have to be on site (or have a mole), but not because "it's Star Wars and not RL". It's because that's the way it works in both.
But this:
Can't agree. There are many examples to the contrary in TCW and Rebels, it seems clear the HoloNet is pretty much the internet (under the Empire being more like the Chinese version), but adding in the difficulties and expense of interstellar data transmission.
I guess it depends on if you are going for 1977 Star Wars or 2017 Star Wars. I did't make that important distinction. Thanks for the skinny on the real deal cause that is good info and it's appreciated. As for the remote hacker thing to use the example from Rebels the connection is made from a mole in the form of a droid, but what I am saying is that the target cannot defend itself using a physical Army, so the heart of the civilization could be attacked asymmetrically, not using physical assaults etc. Seems to me this is the same thing as a bio/chemical attack in its scope and methodology. A technological attack that produces massive death and destruction through cascade failure of the technology that allows for massive cities (or some whole planets) to function, and the resulting horror that would come from that situation occurring. The refugee situation alone from something like that would have been enough to deter them I think, but I like to think of it having happened a few times throughout the history of the Republic because it would seem like complacency would occur.
Edited by Archlyte5 hours ago, Archlyte said:With a nod to the reality that you can run Star Wars however you want, I would say that in the movies and shows what you see is stuff a lot like fantasy storylines: storming the castle, rescuing the princess, encountering the dragon in his lair. If you can make the "magic" of slicing work in a Fantasy way that feels like it would belong in a story about magic and kings and dragons then I think it can work. Merlin s crying and seeing Arthur heading for trouble, etc. I think that the more sci-fi it feels though the weaker the story is as compared to what I would call AAA St ar Wars. Some of the pulp novelists for instance rega rd it simply as a sci-fi setting and I think it shows in their work, which is o ften pretty t epid and starts to feel like it has a tenuous relation sh ip wit h archetypal Star Wars at best.
I agree with you on what the movies were. But if everyone were required to play a character that fit what the movies were then probably half or more of the specializations wouldn't fit. My idea was just a suggested solution. A way to keep the 1977 analog feel while partially allowing for the player to play the type of character they wanted. Like Dar carrying around the magic ring but with allies on the other end rather than witches.
I really prefer the analog feel to the movies so if a character wanted to play a slicer I would show them the guy in the last jedi rather than someone from hackers. But that's me.
16 minutes ago, Ahrimon said:I agree with you on what the movies were. But if everyone were required to play a character that fit what the movies were then probably half or more of the specializations wouldn't fit. My idea was just a suggested solution. A way to keep the 1977 analog feel while partially allowing for the player to play the type of character they wanted. Like Dar carrying around the magic ring but with allies on the other end rather than witches.
I really prefer the analog feel to the movies so if a character wanted to play a slicer I would show them the guy in the last jedi rather than someone from hackers. But that's me.
I think it was a good solution too, I just forgot to type that even though I meant to
There's very little stopping this player from making a basic droid chassis that can fit in another PC's backpack. Paging Dr. Theopolis!
7 hours ago, Archlyte said:I guess it depends on if you are going for 1977 Star Wars or 2017 Star Wars.
To be devil's advocate, that's just confusing the writer's imagination and the audience expectations from 1977, and the difference from 2017. But that's external to the universe in the movies and shows. There's really nothing in the movies, and therefore inherent in the SW universe, that is married to a particular point of view. The original is pretty agnostic about just about everything, including "light speed". Even the term "data tapes" can be chalked up to a colloquialism, like "lightsaber" vs "laser sword".
In the end we arrive at the same place wrt what a slicer needs to do, but how we get there informs other decisions at the gaming table. I suspect I end up spending less time rationalizing and policing "the feel", and more time rolling with whatever clever plan the players come up with, because it just works anyway.
1 hour ago, whafrog said:To be devil's advocate, that's just confusing the writer's imagination and the audience expectations from 1977, and the difference from 2017. But that's external to the universe in the movies and shows. There's really nothing in the movies, and therefore inherent in the SW universe, that is married to a particular point of view. The original is pretty agnostic about just about everything, including "light speed". Even the term "data tapes" can be chalked up to a colloquialism, like "lightsaber" vs "laser sword".
In the end we arrive at the same place wrt what a slicer needs to do, but how we get there informs other decisions at the gaming table. I suspect I end up spending less time rationalizing and policing "the feel", and more time rolling with whatever clever plan the players come up with, because it just works anyway.
Yeah my point there was that it's about what you like and what I like, and the various choices that make up the two. It sounds like you wouldn't be simulating pre-digital age views on technology in a far future science fantasy setting. The whole thing being called slicing because there was no hacking yet and I guess Phreaking sounded wrong somehow. But the shows and the books and the games all incrementally seem to lose more and more of the original feel. At some point it will be gone completely I guess.
Edited by Archlyteadding in some player feedback- I'm getting your point more, and I think the wireless widgets thing was a good middle ground.
However, I just can't ignore the fact that the databases are wireless. For example, how do Star Destroyers talk to each other? Holonet. How does Imp data get instantly updated? Holonet. How did Agent Fulcrum send messages from inside Imperial installations to the rebel base on another planet? Holonet. And how did Cad Bane/Chopper/Mako hack the systems of the Republic/Empire? Holonet. While I get your point, how do we throw all that away?q
2 hours ago, Lukey84 said:adding in some player feedback- I'm getting your point more, and I think the wireless widgets thing was a good middle ground.
However, I just can't ignore the fact that the databases are wireless. For example, how do Star Destroyers talk to each other? Holonet. How does Imp data get instantly updated? Holonet. How did Agent Fulcrum send messages from inside Imperial installations to the rebel base on another planet? Holonet. And how did Cad Bane/Chopper/Mako hack the systems of the Republic/Empire? Holonet. While I get your point, how do we throw all that away?q
You can possibly use remote slicing to do things like intercept transmissions, possibly access and alter information, etc, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can use it to do things like shut down the weapons systems in a star destroyer. I like the caution Adama had regarding the systems on the Galactica: nothing was networked for the purpose of security against hacking and viruses. At my table, that's the same approach the Empire takes.
I do admit I'm not familiar with your Bane/Chopper/Mako example because I haven't seen any of the animated shows.
Edited by panpolyqueergeek16 hours ago, Lukey84 said:adding in some player feedback- I'm getting your point more, and I think the wireless widgets thing was a good middle ground.
However, I just can't ignore the fact that the databases are wireless. For example, how do Star Destroyers talk to each other? Holonet. How does Imp data get instantly updated? Holonet. How did Agent Fulcrum send messages from inside Imperial installations to the rebel base on another planet? Holonet. And how did Cad Bane/Chopper/Mako hack the systems of the Republic/Empire? Holonet. While I get your point, how do we throw all that away?q
Well real naval vessels don't use the Internet to talk to each other, and as a matter of fact they have to make sure they aren't connected with unauthorized networks. I imagine Star Destroyers would communicate on encoded hardened band transmissions. Civilian data crackers would be up against a wall there because it would not only be a thinking problem, but an equipment problem.
I don't have any problem with throwing away a lot of stuff from the cartoons, but I understand if you want to keep it. For the most part I love the cartoons.
To me it's like WWII stuff, the German Navy has a super code and cracking it is a super secret technology that you really can't give out to anyone else and that if overused would result in the system being changed. I can imagine spies using the HoloNet because it would be easier for them to use than official comm channels and equipment.
Also I think that the writers for the cartoons were in a big job and if I were them I wouldn't worry too much about the precedent I was setting either. But because we live in virtual worlds where those ripples actually matter the onus to be more exacting is on us as GM's and Players.
For my games I reject the idea of the HoloNet as the internet, and the Galaxy as an Information Society. I let the players use the HoloNet in place of the Newspaper, Movies, and a Paper Library.
All hacking has to be done mechanically, so I don't even like the missile spoofing thing and make it require ECM/ECCM type equipment for the Computers check. If the character has a Military background I would allow them to repurpose the comm system for this but I don't let just anyone do that. For civilian ships Missiles are ****
So would anyone here disagree on my PC's being able to pick up Imperial communications from their ship's standard equipment? The example being trying to monitor an Imperial ship's whereabouts while trying to remain hidden at the same time. I was going to let them intercept and listen to their ship-to-ground party's conversation if they had enough left over success and/or advantage. Is this kosher or a no no?
So the novel Han Solo: Last Shot describes a situation in which a slicer would work over a wireless connection as distinctly different than a hardwire connection. I don't want to spoil anything but the time period is Sequels. It's a setting where one might expect hardened network protocols, but hey, who am I to judge?