13 hours ago, All Shields Forward said:

But x7 was always a minus cost card. Using old numbers, base defender+X7+shield upgrade is 32 points and you can still fit three. Its dial is slightly better but not by much, and it has more actions, but without any linked actions that isn't so strong. If Defenders become too expensive to fit three than they have probably over costed them.

It was, but:

• As you noted, the Defender has also received Boost - and an Engine Upgrade would be another 4 points.
• As you noted, the Defender has also received a pair of green banks - probably only a fraction of a point.
• Most importantly, TIE/x7 was a negative cost card because it took away all your secondary weapon slots. The new defender has Full Throttle but likely still has cannons and missiles and has the ability to equip modifications.
• It's been noted that there's a significant increase in cost of anything capable of double-stacking defensive tokens; which is perfectly reasonable since offence has as a whole been toned down, and regen limited, which means that focus/evade/agility 3 (which even most TIE interceptors don't get) is probably the toughest defence going, and it's now sat on top of the second thickest shields of any small ship (after the B-wing)
• No-ones suggesting it should be 50 points for a generic, but 34 (or 68 in new money) isn't unreasonable.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• No-ones suggesting it should be 50 points for a generic, but 34 (or 68 in new money) isn't unreasonable.

Laid out like that, 34 looks very reasonable indeed. I can't begin to imagine fitting 3 of these beasts in a list. The sticking point with using 2 is how much do you have left after putting anything other light generics in?

One thing seems sure, a fully tooled up TIE/D will be a menace. Drawing fire away from it may not even be an issue

29 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

The sticking point with using 2 is how much do you have left after putting anything other light generics in?

Not a lot. I suspect you'll get 2 with a couple of light generics, or 2 with a support ship with one of the high-ranking officers (Krennic or Ciena Ree look good for defenders), or you can probably make a stab at a squad where two of them are your entire list if you take them with no expense spared - afterburners, ace pilots, elite talents, heavy laser cannons, lions, tigers and bears, oh my.

A fully equipped highest INI named Tie Defender will be surely near 100 pts , that's my bet. Doubt that you'll be able to squeeze in another ship in a 2 defender list, other than a academy Tie or similar.

It would be too crazy to be able to mod a Defender to 4 4 4 4 stats?

9 minutes ago, vtarin said:

It would be too crazy to be able to mod a Defender to 4 4 4 4 stats?

You'll be able to get close, I suspect. 4 shields already, heavy laser cannon or missiles for the 4 attack dice, hull upgrade for the 4 hull.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

You'll be able to get close, I suspect. 4 shields already, heavy laser cannon or missiles for the 4 attack dice, hull upgrade for the 4 hull.

And double mod slot because why not? ?

#imperialbias #fatrexler

Most looking forward to flying the new Defenders and the Phantom. In general, I'm looking forward to possibly being able to use more generics without feeling short-changed. The TAP, Phantom, Interceptor and Defender all look to have pretty good generics.

I'm a little worried about the Advanced and Aggressor, both of which look a little lacklustre right now but I think the right upgrades could easily change that. Speaking of upgrades, we really don't have much info yet about any of them, especially Mods, multiples of which seems to be part of the Imperial flavour.

Dark horse might be the Lambda. With double-mods being very hard to get now, a cheap, resilient co-ordinator might well be very, very useful and the Imperial crew are looking pretty good too. The rear fire arc should allow it to contribute a little bit more damage in the average game.

I dream an I.6 redline... considering that deathrain is I.5 it should be possible.

My bad , deathrain is I.4 SO redline could be max I.5. BUT still very good

11 hours ago, Shockley said:

What would you put Sloan on? I'm a casual crack swarm player in 1.0. But could see flying an academy swarm with Admiral Sloan on some kind of carrier (I have no idea what or if this would even be a good idea).

You know, I am not sure on this. I don't think there really is one answer here. Each option brings something to the table. OK....there is also the concept of points. We just don't know how much things will cost. We also don't even know if the Tie Bomber will have the shuttle title anymore. There is a balance of cheap, but vulnerable and costly and defensive. Finding what works might just depend on your play style. Maybe you are OK with baiting with Sloan if it means you can kill a lot of your enemy. Then again, maybe you want Sloan alive more.

• Tie Bomber Shuttle (if it exists) = It is cheap, which means you can bring more Tie Fighters, but it's also pretty fragile. It would make killing Sloan a priority....and not that hard.
• Tie Reaper = It is probably a middle cost option. It is beefier than the Bomber Shuttle. It will have the JAM action, which will help in stopping enemy aces. It will be mobile enough to get shots in, but that also means getting shot sometimes. I worry that it might be forced to zip out of range of some Tie Fighters (or maybe it's just my bad flying).
• Lambda = Price can be a big thing here, but I'm sure there are 2 Crew slots, which means other buffing crew. It is not as mobile as the Reaper, but might be better suited to kind of sticking in the middle of things and tanking it out. Will there be a defensive Systems like Sensor Jammer?
• Decimator = This might end up being a good option. It's probably expensive, but it does bring stuff to the table. It will be a tank that can get into it and still put on some serious fire power. You will have fewer Tie Fighters, but it still might be good. It kind of depends on points and how you want to play.

15 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I haven't seen anything from aces (exception Vader) that make me feel like they're worth a lot more than generics. As EPTs seem to be taking a big hit and mad action efficiency ceasing to be the norm, extra shots seem like a big deal. Fel is very interesting, but the way they've talked about I6 being super expensive makes me pretty dubious. You can only go so expensive on a ship with 3 HP and very limited defensive options.

I agree with this. I've always been drawn to having more Generics on the table (usually with one ace or a medium named), but the power creep really ran that out of the ground. I've also seen that people have really been drawn to having just a few super aces for a long time. We ran our Assault on Greyskull Base campaign at GenCon last year and stated that more cheap units would be better, but a lot of people (especially Imps) ended up going with beefed up big ships. They lost hard and I think it was list building that really did it for them.

I didn't catch the bit about if you like a few elites that maybe First Order is for you. I like that. It means the Imperials will be how I want to fly them, which is great.

I recall hearing in an interview that Vader was going to be about 85-95 pts on his own. I can't recall exactly how much, but it was pretty high.

It makes me wonder if the mid "pocket aces" will be good options for Imperials.

I know a lot of people are happy for Tie Formations, but I was thinking about more of a "toolbox" list. In the general Fat Han + Luke gunner discussion that heavy elites will be the Rebel's strength, but it can also be their weakness, if you have the tools to handle it. I'm thinking of all the things you can put in an Imperial list that would be great. I think a compliment of Tie Fighters is a good thing, but also mixing in other ships. Tie Adv. are going to be tanks, but they also have Missile slots. The V1 will be an agile ship, but also have Missile slots. There is the Tie Bomber, but I'm almost thinking it will be more about Bombs and not be quite as good at Ordnance. It's quite possible that the Tie Punisher might be a great ship to add in for various tools. If you need crew, I just posted above about different options. I think there can be a number of different options and configurations for Imperial lists beyond a Tie Formation.

I also want to say that we should call Tie Formations actual formations, not Tie Swarms. I've played Tie Fighters where you swarm the enemy and bump with lots of out of arc R1 shots from different sides. Playing with Howlrunner in a formation is not a swarm.

2 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I agree with this. I've always been drawn to having more Generics on the table (usually with one ace or a medium named), but the power creep really ran that out of the ground. I've also seen that people have really been drawn to having just a few super aces for a long time. We ran our Assault on Greyskull Base campaign at GenCon last year and stated that more cheap units would be better, but a lot of people (especially Imps) ended up going with beefed up big ships. They lost hard and I think it was list building that really did it for them.

I didn't catch the bit about if you like a few elites that maybe First Order is for you. I like that. It means the Imperials will be how I want to fly them, which is great.

I recall hearing in an interview that Vader was going to be about 85-95 pts on his own. I can't recall exactly how much, but it was pretty high.

It makes me wonder if the mid "pocket aces" will be good options for Imperials.

I know a lot of people are happy for Tie Formations, but I was thinking about more of a "toolbox" list. In the general Fat Han + Luke gunner discussion that heavy elites will be the Rebel's strength, but it can also be their weakness, if you have the tools to handle it. I'm thinking of all the things you can put in an Imperial list that would be great. I think a compliment of Tie Fighters is a good thing, but also mixing in other ships. Tie Adv. are going to be tanks, but they also have Missile slots. The V1 will be an agile ship, but also have Missile slots. There is the Tie Bomber, but I'm almost thinking it will be more about Bombs and not be quite as good at Ordnance. It's quite possible that the Tie Punisher might be a great ship to add in for various tools. If you need crew, I just posted above about different options. I think there can be a number of different options and configurations for Imperial lists beyond a Tie Formation.

I also want to say that we should call Tie Formations actual formations, not Tie Swarms. I've played Tie Fighters where you swarm the enemy and bump with lots of out of arc R1 shots from different sides. Playing with Howlrunner in a formation is not a swarm.

Which is why the lack of bases for generics in the conversion kit is concerning. ?

3 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Which is why the lack of bases for generics in the conversion kit is concerning. ?

You mean the cardboard ones, right? I'm sure they are double sided....like they are now. So, that means we actually have a lot of generics....under all the uniques. Look at all the unique Tie Fighter pilots. How many uniques are there? The underside can't have another Unique as you have to have the ability to field both of them at the same time. That means the bottoms will all be uniques. You can keep your old dials and flip over the cardboard cut outs of the uniques and use the generics underneath. The only thing that you will have to watch out for is the pilot cards. You will only get 4 of each. So, you might have to go with 4 Academy and the rest.....whatever Obsidian Squadrons are.

Lambda with Sloan and Ree would be perfect for a TIE Swarm. Extra repositioning, punish the enemy for destroying your squishy ships, plus buff your other ships in the process, all on a defensible platform. Reinforce when you need to, but otherwise coordinate. I see the Lambda actually seeing a lot of use in 2.0.

6 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

I think you should consider the effect of every Alpha Squadron being able to use the chassis greens to perform reposition-and-token every turn. Every intercepter with PTL glued to it gains another EPT slot, and the defensive nerfs apply to everyone else, too.

I have (it's why I mentioned that available EPTs and Mods will be very important), and currently run PS4 Silencers and do very well with them, which is why I think I'm in a good position to make that analysis. Since Wave 3, I've flown interceptors against turrets and pre-autothrusters, etc..etc...

I recognize that defensive "nerfs" apply to everyone else, but it's going to hurt the most for a ship like the interceptor that relies on green dice, especially in front of just 3 hull. I also realize that cost will be a factor, but like I said, with what I know now, I don't think they will be a very strong ship.

41 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I have (it's why I mentioned that available EPTs and Mods will be very important), and currently run PS4 Silencers and do very well with them, which is why I think I'm in a good position to make that analysis. Since Wave 3, I've flown interceptors against turrets and pre-autothrusters, etc..etc...

I recognize that defensive "nerfs" apply to everyone else, but it's going to hurt the most for a ship like the interceptor that relies on green dice, especially in front of just 3 hull. I also realize that cost will be a factor, but like I said, with what I know now, I don't think they will be a very strong ship.

Just as a thought experiment. If you could take 4 Sabers with an EPT and Hull Upgrade, would that be enough?

4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Just as a thought experiment. If you could take 4 Sabers with an EPT and Hull Upgrade, would that be enough?

Yes.

That means probably more than 5 alphas.

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

I recognize that defensive "nerfs" apply to everyone else, but it's going to hurt the most for a ship like the interceptor that relies on green dice, especially in front of just 3 hull. I also realize that cost will be a factor, but like I said, with what I know now, I don't think they will be a very strong ship.

Well "akshually"...

Low agi ships with the evade action suffer more. If you roll 3 evades on an Interceptor, you are golden. Sure, a 4th one might help, and you wasted an action, but how often do you think you will need to roll more than 3 evades?

The falcon however will experience the "evade cap" far more often.

Every second time the falcon uses the evade action, it will be wasted (with the falcon re-roll)

The evade nerf sucks, but it's not green dice aces that suffer the most.

I just realized Iden Versio can prevent all damage (non critical, that is), from one attack, not just one damage.

1 minute ago, That One Guy said:

I just realized Iden Versio can prevent all damage (non critical, that is), from one attack, not just one damage.

Makes want to paint up some Inferno Squadron TIE's for 2.0.

2 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

I just realized Iden Versio can prevent all damage (non critical, that is), from one attack, not just one damage.

Yeah. She can just "LOL. Nope!!!" Any attack. I love it

7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah. She can just "LOL. Nope!!!" Any attack. I love it

A shame they gave that ability to a traitorous EA character from a garbage game.

10 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

A shame they gave that ability to a traitorous EA character from a garbage game.

Truth

So just another thought or observation which could end up entirely wrong I know. From what little we have seen it looks like I4 is the real Imperial sweet spot. A number of the old mid Aces are here as are a few of the more upper tier Generic Pilots. I3 seems to fill the other lions share with smatterings of 1-2 and 5-6. So is this the zone that will win or lose for Imperials?

Also Ryad, essentially the same skill just now Stress matters as she makes all her straight maneuvering white if she K-turns. Also no linked actions like all the other Defenders. Does she have that potential to be as scary as she was in 1.0? I personally think she can as being in that sweet spot, she can maximize the support around her. If Outmaneuver is still a thing and not too costly for a Defender it might be what gets stapled to her.