Anybody see any problems with allowing pc's to go though the same career a second time? e.g. Soldier (private) to Soldier (sargent) to soldier (captain)?

Seems like this would solve the stupid lack of advanced careers problem.

jh

Somenoe in this forum already suggested this. Seems like a good idea if you really like the career and don't want to switch to something else. Why not!

That's how we are handling it. You are a better solider, scholar, surgeon whatever. The rules hint that you aren't supposed to do that but they don't explicitly state you can't. What we don't allow is you to say start a soldier career take half the advances then change to a solider career again. If you want to repeat a career you have to have fully completed that career the first time through. Which is in line with the rules that state you can go back to any career you haven't finished and finish it off. So you can't by extension re-start a career that you never finished in the first place.

We also like the idea from a story perspective because very often we have players that don't want to stop being a solider (I use solider but it's just an example) to get better they just want to be a better solider and if there is no logical career path to be a better solider (like sargent>veteran>hero) then redoing solider makes more sense then flipping to Witch Hunter.

This is probably what I'll do if we end up with a situation where people don't want to switch, at least until they release some more advanced classes for linear progression. I've never been a fan of hopping from one basic career to the next, I'd rather there be at least a certain amount of continued improvement in one logical line.

It kinda makes more sense than having someone jump through careers. It really doesn't make much sense for certain characters to leave their career outside of a game mechanic. So your Ironbreaker is going to become a barber now.... an armored barber?

Emirikol said:

From an in-character perspective, this is totally acceptable, and makes lots of sense. It should be possible to advance along a logical line, and not have to radically alter you character concept every 8th or 10th session.

From an out-of-character perspective, though, there is the downside that it encourages min-maxing. Taking the same career two or three times means you're going to always have the same Primary Characteristics, and while you can't raise them up very high, there's no limit to how many Fortune dice you can add to them. You'll also always have the option of raising the same skills again and again.

I think it's going to depend a lot on your play group. If they're trustworthy chaps, and all have about the same amount of gaming experience and similar playstyles, it'll probably work.

Where I'd be worried is if you have two radically different players. If one is a veteran gamer with a wee bit of a munchkin streak, playing a "I break things and kill people" style of combat tank without much depth, he'll get a huge benefit out of this. Meanwhile, casual "I'm just here to hang out with my buddies" players or heavy "method actor" role-players may fall behind as they take interesting, but not mechanically optimal secondary careers. The munchkiny min-maxer types have an advantage in the first place, even without being able to duplicate classes, being able to specialize further just increases their natural advantage.

So, I guess my advice would be to ask yourself some questions about the motives of the player who wants to stick with the same career, and consider whether or not it's going to cause any troubles for the rest of the playgroup. Why does Fred want to run Soldier again. Is it because his character is a career officer and a patriot, so Mercenary is out of the picture? Or is it because he wants some specific mechanical benefit such as maxing out particular skills needed for his favorite action card? Instead of just deny-ing him, I'd suggest he could use the Watchman Career, renamed as "Sergeant", to represent an NCO promotion higher up the command structure. Give him a few options like that, and see if any of those strike his fancy.

Even if it is all about the mechanics for the player in question, I'm still not 100% certain I'd say no. I mean, it's hard to argue that Soldier-into-Soldier is somehow broken, if Troll-Slayer-into-Giant-Slayer isn't. Plus, they would be missing out on a new Career Special Ability, which may help to counter-balance the min-maxing benefits. (Help to balance, not completely counter it all by itself. Most of the existing Career specials are no stronger than a Specialization.)

Food for thought.

The house rules I use for careers:

- you can remain in a career even after you've spent 10 advances in it. You might have spent 4 on a non-career advanced skill and 6 on a stat, for instance, and you want to get all the rest of the stuff.

- you can "change" to the same career and start anew if (a) you complete the career and (b) you spend 4 (3 for Reiklander) advances to give yourself a new direction in the same old job.

Kryyst said:

Actually the errata, pg 3. states:

Character Development:
Completing a Career & Dedication
Once a PC has all ten advance lines filled/checked off on the
General Career Advances portion of the Advancement Worksheet,
the PC has effectively completed that career. He may then spend
an advance to check off the Dedication Bonus box under Career
Completion Advances. and receive the Dedication Bonus awards as
detailed on WFRP page 37.
Note that the dedication bonus is an advance, just like any other
career benefit – the character has simply “unlocked” access to that
special advance by completing his current career, but he must still
invest in its purchase, as he would to acquire any of the General
Career Advances.
Once all ten advances have been crossed off on the General Career
Advances, the career has nothing else to offer the character – any
further development he wishes to pursue while in that career would
be considered a non-career advance... it may be time to look for a
new career that offers new opportunities for self-improvement.

Each career your character enters gets its own advancment track, if/when you leave a career, that track doesn't dissapear, i.e. if you buy the extra wound advancement from Soldier then enter the student career to buy education, then go back to Soldier when you go back to Soldier you use that same advancement track that still has the extra wound line checked off. If you finish a Soldier, leave it, then go back (perfectly legal RAW) then you get that same totally filled out advancement track that doesn't offer you any opportunity.

Now on the other hand I don't inherently have a problem with repeating careers, espcially those that don't have a progession like they should, Soldier being a great example, in previous editions of WHFRP every career had a career entry and career exit, so career A goes to B exits to C, D, or E, there was a progession, even if it wasn't a straight line progression, and if you went to a new line, you didn't just get to jump in at the top. Since WFRP 3rd has an alarming lack of Advance career options right now, the option of re-taking careers seems a simple stop-gap until alternatives become available, I would suggest (using Soldier as an example) treating the second taking of the career as an advance career, with all the same requirements and opporunities that would afford, and coming up with a new career ability or allowing a second use of said ability would be warrented as well I think. Also however the addition to, modification of, adding requirements for the career I think is also warrented as well, for example, maybe the "Sergeant" career could have one of its prime stats be fellowship, or at least have a minimum fellow ship requirement since as a leader of troop you need to at least command a certain amount of respect and fellowership.

BCA said:

Not sure what your actually trying to address. What is being suggested is that taking solider again, once you've fully completed the soldier career would be treated exactly like starting a new career. No different then if you were going to say Pit Fighter. However if you have any advances that you haven't yet taken the first time you went through solider you couldn't take the soldier career again until you've fully exhausted all the advances the first time around. Doing solider again would be cheaper to get into (as it's got matching req.) and you wouldn't gain a new career specific advantage. But you'd be able to again maximize skills and advantages as a soldier. This would be no different then switching to Pit Fighter or any other combat career that has some overlapping abilities to Soldier already. The rules never say you can't go into the same career twice. Only that if you go into a past career that you haven't completed you may pick it up where you left off and no one is trying to contradict that rule.

@Kryyst

Okay the rules do say you can return to a career you were previously in, however they ALSO say, that once you finish a career, it has nothing to offer you. You cannot re-do a career that you have already finished accoring to the RAW, since this is the Rules Questions Forum and not the House Rules Forum, the answer is no, you cannot take the Soldier career again after you have already "Finished" it once.

Once again though, I am totally in favor of making a house rule to override this becuase of the lack of viable options currently in this system, and I also happen to think that it makes total sense that you should be able to continue being a soldier after you've purchased all of the advancements availble on the character sheet. BUT , right now the RAW does NOT allow you to do so. So when you say that the "...Rules hint that you aren't suppsed to do that but they don't explicitly state you can't... " I am clarifiying, since the langauge isn't the best, that they DO explicity state you cannot re-take a career. Some people are sticklers for the rules, and since once again this is the rules QUESTIONS forum, I am trying to clarifiy the rule, this isn't a personal attack, I just feel your statement is misleading.