With the release of information on X-Wing 2nd Edition and the way points are being handled through the app, FFG really dropped the ball not implementing it in Legion.

As of right now, the airspeeder is way overcosted, and the same can be said for some of these exhaustable heavy weapons.

It boggles my mind that they didn't do this as X-Wing 2.0 has been in the works for years. I love you FFG and own a lot of your games, but you done ****** up.

What and ruin the hole Legion 2.0 in a year. $$$ They won't pass on that cash cow.

You're stating things are overcosted 2 months into a game with a standard ffg release strategy?

This is what? The third thread with this exact title to be posted in the last 6 months?

It certainly seems that the T-47 is a waste of points, the opportunity cost is just way too high. However, in this case FFG often plays a long game and as new units, leaders and cards come out there could be a change making the T-47 seem much better. I also tend to think that right now our missions are very troop biased, change that and the T-47 could be somewhat better.

I think knowing that the app was there and not using it was somewhat of a missed opportunity. Of course there may have been "reasons" we won't know about. The advantage of the app is these little point in time issues can be adjusted and corrected. Right now the T-47 could be worth 135 points and in six months time 175, the app allows these adjustments.

I dont think they dropped the ball per se, I mean the game has only been out for 2 months and theres still a ton to be announced and released in the next couple years. I think I heard somewhere that they were even planning out the expansions a lot farther out than any previous SW game so there could be things that come out that will completely change the way we are currently looking at stuff. Like the T-47, ion, exhaustible weapons, etc. For those, I feel like they are just showing us the design spaces at the start and then will be fleshing them out down the road.

I.e., we might not understand things until we start getting more of the bigger picture.

I do believe not using an app at launch was a missed opportunity, especially if there were already doing one for X-Wing. Even if it was just for points/list builder / rules reference, it would make things a bit easier and I wouldn't mind them playing around with point costs.

Plus the app could have a lot of cool features- like getting started games, linked painting videos to Sorastro's stuff on youtube. Maybe some monthly "missions" that give players certain objectives, deployments, what units to use, etc with special rules for the "mission". Could even have the missions make a short campaign, like 3 missions make a story arc, then a new one starts after the third one. This game definitely needs some narrative/campaign style stuff (yes I know you can make your own) and the app would've been perfect for it.

Imagine just being able to add more of the Mission cards at a whim and shuffle and deal them before the game started. Then tap the screen and remove the card!!

2 hours ago, Amanal said:

It certainly seems that the T-47 is a waste of points, the opportunity cost is just way too high. However, in this case FFG often plays a long game and as new units, leaders and cards come out there could be a change making the T-47 seem much better. I also tend to think that right now our missions are very troop biased, change that and the T-47 could be somewhat better.

I think knowing that the app was there and not using it was somewhat of a missed opportunity. Of course there may have been "reasons" we won't know about. The advantage of the app is these little point in time issues can be adjusted and corrected. Right now the T-47 could be worth 135 points and in six months time 175, the app allows these adjustments.

Tell that to the victory star destroyer...

Its a good point, i guess my concern is the 800 point limit. Makes me wonder how if vehicles are sub optimal now how the game is going to shift to change that. They simply dont seem to have the damage output compared to the equivalent amount of infantry or bikes. Any vehicles that do address this will simply be better than the t47/atst, not make them more competitive

FFG has limited digital resources and X-wing has priority. You are assuming Legion having a digital app builder was an option. Also, it all depends how well X-wing 2.0 is received if FFG's games will all look like 2.0 in the future. Right now, they all look like x-wing 1.0. They like to duplicate success. 2.0 is not a success yet and no guaranty it will be. It could bomb badly.

Sure, we may see an app as the releases slow down a touch if they do. Monthly updates could strain things.

But an Army builder app for X-Wing could be translated to Armada and Legion fairly fast because there are many similarities in all three games.

I hope they take as long as possible before moving over, I *hate* apps tied in to tabletop. The main reason I play wargames is to get some time away from all the sodding screens in our lives.

I hope for the sake of the game that in this instance they FAQ the points instead of the text... X wing FAQ is truly hard to remember and it cardboard doesn't represent the game rules once FAQed... In the other hand FAQing only the points is easy to remember or mark with a cheap sticker on top of the old points and keeps the rules clear.

I'm not saying not to FAQ anything else, off course they should FAQ if something is broken beyond point balance but I do hope they playtest better now.

I actually tend to agree with the OP that Legion could use an app. For lots of things, not just for making cost balance adjustments. But it is what it is.

Keep in mind that, other than cost of conversion, the app is probably the MOST controversial thing about X-Wing 2.0. So I wouldn’t come away with the idea that everyone would love an app for Legion.

As far as game balance and cost, I think it’s a bit too early to proclaim the speeder dead in this game.

I'm really bummed FFG didn't go with an app. I'm actually surprised they didn't considering how big Legion is. Aside from errata-ing cards, it also means I "own" all the cards I need and can buy packs just for the minis.

Those numbers are super small (at least on the unit cards) I bet down the road FFG will include an app and state "use these point values for casual play." It's not the biggest deal to me if they decide to integrate an app and make those numbers superfluous for tournament play.

What I imagine occurring is FFG didn't want to start Legion off with the Games Workshop approach in which you need outside materials to figure out unit values.

Migs stop complaining. Look, I'm sorry I couldn't show up and you had to get your head bashed by professional gamers.

5 hours ago, Mep said:

FFG has limited digital resources and X-wing has priority. You are assuming Legion having a digital app builder was an option. Also, it all depends how well X-wing 2.0 is received if FFG's games will all look like 2.0 in the future. Right now, they all look like x-wing 1.0. They like to duplicate success. 2.0 is not a success yet and no guaranty it will be. It could bomb badly.

I was going to say... it seems short sighted to say that FFG missed the ball on Legion because it didn’t use a system that they implemented on a game that has yet to be released.

1 hour ago, KalEl814 said:

I was going to say... it seems short sighted to say that FFG missed the ball on Legion because it didn’t use a system that they implemented on a game that has yet to be released.

Its not really short sighted though. X-wing 2.0 has been in development for at least a year, so both it and Legion were in development at the same time. FFG could have easily made the decision to not put point values on the cards and just created a document like the RRG that contained all of the point values.

23 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

Its not really short sighted though. X-wing 2.0 has been in development for at least a year, so both it and Legion were in development at the same time. FFG could have easily made the decision to not put point values on the cards and just created a document like the RRG that contained all of the point values.

Didn't Alex work on X-Wing 2.0, he did that play through with Team Covenant after all?

Once they finish the app for X-Wing they can slowly roll out one for each of their other games and tell us to disregard the printed costs and upgrade slots.

Legion seems to have a future-proofed ruleset so 2.0 won't be necessary for a while. I think people will be able to ignore a couple or icons on cards...

2 hours ago, Skargoth said:

Those numbers are super (at least on the unit cards) I bet down the road FFG will include an app and state "use these point values for casual play." It's not the biggest deal to me if they decide to integrate an app and make those numbers superfluous for tournament play.

I agree, I wouldn't mind if they did alter points in the future, especially through an app. That way you could build lists in the app where the points would automatically update and then you could go back and edit the list accordingly.

It would also be nice to have the rules/RRG on an app, where you could highlight or bookmark certain sections that are confusing to you or you forget and are unsure of that can be quickly referenced under a "saved rules" tab, rather than flipping through a huge packet for a single rule.

3 hours ago, BigBadAndy said:

Keep in mind that, other than cost of conversion, the app is probably the MOST controversial thing about X-Wing 2.0. So I wouldn’t come away with the idea that everyone would love an app for Legion.

I think a lot of the contention about the X-wing 2.0 app is that you have to go onto the app or website to see the point costs and upgrades of the ships, two rather important aspects of that game. I know they'll be including a card with "threat level" builds that will have suggested upgrades for the ships.

I have a hard time thinking that FFG dropped the ball in this case. We don't even have all the force chart units filled out for all sides yet. All it takes is one unit with a great ability or command card and be like d a m n me need some snow speeders or at-st. Then everyone will be i need me some ION oh man they are so great. I mean really who knows. I think until this game is a bit more flushed out it is a little early to start knocking the ball out of FFGs hands ourseleves.

Now the app that would be cool, but there are only some many development cycles, they went with an established game as an introduction. Actually makes alot of sense.

I would rather large units like the T-47 and AT-AT error on the side of over costed than under costed for this kind of game. Legion is (in the end) about troops and tactics. If the largest units become "must haves" THEN this game would be a disappointment. Large units should be high risk, high reward. And troops should be the equilibrium balance... so that in the end how one PLAYS the game is more important that what one brought to the game.

The T-47 also seems to have issues due to people using what is probably less terrain than intended, as long as there is space for maneuvering, and a heavier than normal terrain amount, it does a whole lot better. THere's a whole thread on it...

17 hours ago, Yodhrin said:

I hope they take as long as possible before moving over, I *hate* apps tied in to tabletop. The main reason I play wargames is to get some time away from all the sodding screens in our lives.

Many games (like Infinity) use an app that you can print an army list from. So no reason to use a screen at all. Everything is right in front of you on paper.

12 hours ago, Shadows of the Future said:

The T-47 also seems to have issues due to people using what is probably less terrain than intended, as long as there is space for maneuvering, and a heavier than normal terrain amount, it does a whole lot better. THere's a whole thread on it...

Indeed. There should be several places on the board where the T-47 can hide from fire. Even then it is probably still overcosted, but it does help a lot.