58 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

I can't see it - the design of the upgrade icon comes from the Falcon's gunner seats, not to mention the picture of Luke they used for the art. Plus Gunner Han requires there to be multiple mobile arcs to work.

My bigger worry is the Falcon having 2 Gunner seats so you can have Chewie driving with Han and Luke shooting...

They said on the unboxing stream the Falcon has 2 crew and 1 gunner.

6 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

Just give him 2 normal charges rather than the regenerating force and he'd still be very good.

An obvious way to accomplish something similar would be to give him more Force points, but have him cost more to use.

8 minutes ago, Tam Palso said:

X Wing has had PWT available for the majority of its existence and remained extremely popular. So you’re saying players have been gritting their teeth for wave after wave hating the game (whilst spending loads on it)?

Or, is it plausible that by decrying play options that counter yours (e.g high initiative arc dodgers) you might be better placing an advantage to your own preferred ships?

Noting, from the above, that LG is unique and therefore can only create a 1.0 PWT on one ship in a list?

They changed the entire game and removed all 360 turrets they also removed all the defense stuff against 360 turrets (thrusters, token stacking) then included a 360 turret..... That's the problem.

Even if it's not op it breaks the game and really serves no purpose, he is not fun he is not dynamic he just makes your flying irrelevant. Why put a card like that in 2.0?

I dont see Luke as being too powerful... right now (power creep will eventually make its way into 2e and Luke will be broken AF). Its more of the Luke card being what 2.0 is suppose to be against. Xwing 2E is suppose to be about flying, arcs, and making decisions (i.e. if an action fails you lose an action). Luke sh*ts on all of that right out of the gate.

15 minutes ago, Tam Palso said:

X Wing has had PWT available for the majority of its existence and remained extremely popular. So you’re saying players have been gritting their teeth for wave after wave hating the game (whilst spending loads on it)?

Or, is it plausible that by decrying play options that counter yours (e.g high initiative arc dodgers) you might be better placing an advantage to your own preferred ships?

Noting, from the above, that LG is unique and therefore can only create a 1.0 PWT on one ship in a list?

Not only am I saying that, but it's objectively true. Forum whining did not start with me

1.0 was widely recognized as an incredibly fun but incredibly flawed experience that could be easily improved by the removal of a few busted mechanics

These busted, flawed mechanics are WHY 2.0 EXISTS

All of those mechanics have been addressed largely by action chaining and mobile arcs...except in the case of gunner luke

Go ******* figure

38 minutes ago, Zura said:

It doesn't matter if he's good. What matters is that he's going against 2.0 phillsophy and it is an indicator of not so bright future design.

There’s also a ship that can reload charges. That goes against 2.0 philosophy. I need to go buy some pearls to clutch.

The big issue with PWTs was that they were too efficient. It was never their sheer existence, it was that they could often out-trade jousters even when caught in arc. If Luke is super expensive (and he should be), there won't be a repeat of 1.0, because the issue with 1.0 has ALWAYS been about relative point costs.

Did anyone ever take over the world with Patrol Leaders? RAC without VI? TBH I've always found the VT-49 pretty fun to fly against outside of RACLo builds. Strong ship on a timer. It's about the point costs, and it always has been.

2 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

The big issue with PWTs was that they were too efficient. It was never their sheer existence, it was that they could often out-trade jousters even when caught in arc. If Luke is super expensive (and he should be), there won't be a repeat of 1.0, because the issue with 1.0 has ALWAYS been about relative point costs.

Did anyone ever take over the world with Patrol Leaders? RAC without VI? TBH I've always found the VT-49 pretty fun to fly against outside of RACLo builds. Strong ship on a timer. It's about the point costs, and it always has been.

Yes, people used both Oicunn and Kenkirk to high levels in competitive play, usually with Whisper or Echo.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I highly doubt they're using the art of Luke in the falcon just so he could be barred from being on the falcon

Are you sure?

3 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

There’s also a ship that can reload charges. That goes against 2.0 philosophy. I need to go buy some pearls to clutch.

No it's not

2.0 philsophy emphasizes manuevering over upgrades

Reload action is an action, actions can be blocked or stressed (red manuever) or cause stress, affecting manueverability

Reload also doesnt reload defensive mechanics such as r2d2 as far as we know

Luke gunner is completely action independent and allows shots on targets regardless of how they or you moved. THAT is contrary to 2.0 design

It is really amazing the hoops some people jump through to try make this blatant mistake seem acceptable

1 hour ago, tsondaboy said:

Luke gunner himself is not an issue. He has to spend his force token to turn the arc around, when from the little info we have so far about force tokens, they can be used in better ways (like focus tokens?). What would make him a problem is if cards like expertise have found their way to 2.0 somehow.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Expertise (or Expertise-lite) made the jump, but like Predator, it will probably be limited to the Bullseye Arc. Thus making it an ify upgrade for a reactive Turret build.

23 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

All of those mechanics have been addressed largely by action chaining and mobile arcs...except in the case of gunner luke

I know we don't agree all that often @ficklegreendice, but I really do think you're overreacting a bit here.

Every single upgrade in the game warps or distorts the core game's rules in some fashion. That's what they're designed to do.

"You can only perform one action per turn" unless you have Push the Limit
"You perform an action after you move" unless you have Advanced Sensors
"A Focus action gives you one Focus token" unless you have Recon Specialist

Luke Skywalker Gunner is an upgrade card. The ability is pretty thematic (a throwback to the escape from the Death Star scene), being able to swiftly get a target in arc or modify your attack to improve accuracy. It's faction restricted, it's slot restricted, it's unique and taking it will likely shut down a lot of other options available to you (not least Luke X-Wing pilot, who looks pretty amazing as well).

It's OK to have reservations, but throwing this level of vitriol at a single upgrade card when we're still missing full information is, well, premature to say the least.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Luke gunner is completely action independent and allows shots on targets regardless of how they or you moved.

No, because if you land on a rock you can’t shoot. If you’re out of range you can’t shoot. If you bump you can’t shoot.

4 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Every single upgrade in the game warps or distorts the core game's rules in some fashion.

"Maybe they'll fix Dash" I said. :'(

27 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

There’s also a ship that can reload charges. That goes against 2.0 philosophy. I need to go buy some pearls to clutch.

What ship can reload charges (unless you literally mean the reload action)?

3 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:

"Maybe they'll fix Dash" I said. ?

Maybe they have!

PTL is gone, we got linked actions now.

Advanced sensors no longer allows action stacking, it's been adjusted for 2.0

Recspec doesn't stack mods because you can't spend two focus on the same roll. It is also an action

2.0 did an incredible job of adjusting the outliers to the core ruleset, except gunner Luke

In fact, let me bring up a FAR better done gunner Luke: the inquistor crew

Slap him on a deci, use him to rotate arc

But wait! Hrs actually an action! And you're stressed AND he triggers only on dial reveal so your opponent can action out of arc

THAT'S a well done turret card, and it can be used for a myriad other purposes too

A+ design

54 minutes ago, Icelom said:

The fact you think gyroscopic targeting is on the same level as Luke gunner is frankly astounding.

It's about when they trigger, if Luke triggered the same as gyroscopic targeting we would not be having this discussion.

Oh you are right about the timing, my apologies. I see Gyroscopes played so rarely that I honesty forgot when it triggered.

But my other points still stand. Skilled Shadowcaster players don’t need gyroscopes and rarely even need the rotate action to keep you in arc. They can read/control the flow of battle and maneuver their ship so that you’re in they’re arc, and they do it at relatively low PS.

10 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I know we don't agree all that often @ficklegreendice, but I really do think you're overreacting a bit here.

Every single upgrade in the game warps or distorts the core game's rules in some fashion. That's what they're designed to do.

"You can only perform one action per turn" unless you have Push the Limit
"You perform an action after you move" unless you have Advanced Sensors
"A Focus action gives you one Focus token" unless you have Recon Specialist

Luke Skywalker Gunner is an upgrade card. The ability is pretty thematic (a throwback to the escape from the Death Star scene), being able to swiftly get a target in arc or modify your attack to improve accuracy. It's faction restricted, it's slot restricted, it's unique and taking it will likely shut down a lot of other options available to you (not least Luke X-Wing pilot, who looks pretty amazing as well).

It's OK to have reservations, but throwing this level of vitriol at a single upgrade card when we're still missing full information is, well, premature to say the least.

Except that all it takes is everyone taking rebel lists with turret ships and including Luke Gunner to ruin it. Fat Han was a single heavily upgraded ship, and it was everywhere.

Outer Rim Smuggler with both Han and Luke crew is a I1 ship that should always have it's focus or evade due to moving first, always has arc on you thanks to Luke and always fires first thanks to Han.

Let that sink in for a second.

Loving the amount of hate this one card is getting. I wonder what the real sleeper meta defining card will be. I hope it's something like Leia or maybe even daredevil or some straight "dark side only" force card.

42 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Unless it’s severely undercosted, gunner!Luke is fine- this is just an extreme knee-jerk overreaction by *ahem* a few select forum users.

Remember that a skilled player will be able to keep his targets in the mobile arcs 95% of the time without rotating them anyway. Look at the Shadowcaster. Is the Gyroscopic Targeting an auto-include upgrade at only 2 points? Hardly. Most of the time I see the Shadowcaster without it unless the player happened to have 2 extra points to burn. And it does the exact same thing Gunner!Luke will do- allow free post-activation arc rotation (EDIT: and yes I know Luke gives you the force point, too, but it’s the arc movement that everybody is whinging about). This is because skilled players know where they want their arc set before they engage and know how to position themselves so that they keep their target(s) inside that arc.

Mark my words, Gunner!Luke will largely flop, and won’t be seen at the top tables of major competitive events at all.

I agree.

I think skilled players won't need to pick Luke.

We also forget that just getting a 3 dice attack isn't as tough anymore. Especially from turrets. They don't have bullseye arcs, which means that the upgrades they take provide general bonuses = more expensive and less common.

Getting full mods is harder, being near rocks makes you predictable, and it is potentially more difficult due to the faster dial. No more hard 1 turns.

It's defense is also gutted. Many people only bring up the evade nerf when talking about 3 agility ships, but the real victims are the low agility ships with evade. Han benefited from the added evade symbol way more, than an Interceptor.

Seismics are also something we shouldn't forget. Why? Well, the bombs are novelty and look really fun, plus it seems like there will be quite a few ships with interactions with obstacles. The devs also mentioned that you are able to lock on to any object in the game, so it is feasible that there are mechanics that allow you to benefit from them otherwise.

Plus, now that ordnance has received a general update, and it works on EVERY ship, instead of a select few with several special mechanics dedicated to them, it is a real contender against the Falcon. A generic bomber swarm seems like it could really bring the pain. Getting reliably modded 4 dice attacks in this game WILL be powerful. So why NOT slap a seismic charge on your TIE bombers?

But I think that the problem my peers mention here are real-ish. However, I don't think the Falcon will dominate, simply because everything is much... tamer. Don't forget that large based ships now have additionally weaknesses. Tractor beam can affect them, their increased health means less of an advantage when crits are more common, especially as you generate more of them. They won't be able to boost and barrel roll, in fact, the Falcon is pretty much the only old style PWT in the game. I see it as a relic of the past. I don't think it will be terribly effective, but if you refuse to learn to play with 2e mechanics, you will have the Falcon with Luke Gunner. I think it will be slightly suboptimal.

Think about it... It's not like this allows the Falcon to take 3 pseudo actions. It allows it to take 2. It's regular action, and Luke (either Force, or turret rotate). And that's weaker than 2 actions in 1.0, since the arc didn't require a rotation.

That's... not impressive. There are other ships that can do way better than that. Just imagine a coordinated interceptor swarm. I imagine we will get a crew that allows you to perform double coordinate, or sth like that. Or Vader... His action economy is through the roof.

I mean... I get what people are saying. It's bad design... but it's not impressive I think.

2.0 didn't even hit the shelves and bunch of nerf herders already cry about assumed broken cards. Unreal.
As I said those people will always be mad at something - game is bad as long it does not cater to their tastes all the time.

2 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:

Outer Rim Smuggler with both Han and Luke crew is a I1 ship that should always have it's focus or evade due to moving first, always has arc on you thanks to Luke and always fires first thanks to Han.

Let that sink in for a second.

Loving the amount of hate this one card is getting. I wonder what the real sleeper meta defining card will be. I hope it's something like Leia or maybe even daredevil or some straight "dark side only" force card.

Han and Luke are both Gunners, it only has one Gunner slot.

6 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Oh you are right about the timing, my apologies. I see Gyroscopes played so rarely that I honesty forgot when it triggered.

But my other points still stand. Skilled Shadowcaster players don’t need gyroscopes and rarely even need the rotate action to keep you in arc. They can read/control the flow of battle and maneuver their ship so that you’re in they’re arc, and they do it at relatively low PS.

False parralel

Not only do the yts NOT have shadow caster arcs, but shadow caster arcs got nerfed

Your mobile arc positioning is going to matter a lot and you will need to severly outplay the opponent to always get a good shot on the target you want

...except with gunner Luke

You're becoming incredibly proficient at missing the point, @ficklegreendice...