What the **** are you guys talking about with "printing 'casual only' on cards"??? That is not a thing that has, should, or will ever happen. It's the cost of the card that makes it non-viable for competitive play, not some "unwritten rule".
Chicken Littles... Chicken Littles everywhere...
21 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:What the **** are you guys talking about with "printing 'casual only' on cards"??? That is not a thing that has, should, or will ever happen. It's the cost of the card that makes it non-viable for competitive play, not some "unwritten rule".
Chicken Littles... Chicken Littles everywhere...
And even so, if we get a Cianna Rei/Ace meta like the old Fel/palp days, Luke may show up to tournamants as a meta spoiler. It probably wont WIN, but it'll knock out a contending list or two if there's enough of the archetype it counters.
8 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:And even so, if we get a Cianna Rei/Ace meta like the old Fel/palp days, Luke may show up to tournamants as a meta spoiler. It probably wont WIN, but it'll knock out a contending list or two if there's enough of the archetype it counters.
The trouble with Luke is that he is a very decisive HARD COUNTER to Soontir Fel. Meta spoiler is an understatement. In most matchups, Luke will be an inefficient 30 points. Against Soontir, Luke gunner is PRICELESS. His ability causes EXTREME variations in how a list will perform based on the matchup.
I forsee people trying to fly Soontir. Then, at their first 2e tournament, Leebo with Luke & Outrider title 1-shots a fully tokened Soontir trying to hide behind a rock, which doesn't help cause Outrider title.
1 minute ago, Dengar5 said:The trouble with Luke is that he is a very decisive HARD COUNTER to Soontir Fel. Meta spoiler is an understatement. In most matchups, Luke will be an inefficient 30 points. Against Soontir, Luke gunner is PRICELESS. His ability causes EXTREME variations in how a list will perform based on the matchup.
I forsee people trying to fly Soontir. Then, at their first 2e tournament, Leebo with Luke & Outrider title 1-shots a fully tokened Soontir trying to hide behind a rock, which doesn't help cause Outrider title.
That's just crazy dice varience, especially if Fel took hull upgrade. Meanwhile fel's ability is extremely easy to trigger against large bases.
It's an uphill fight for the arcdodger, sure, but depending on the rest of the lists not an unwinnable one.
Meanwhile the Leebo/Luke list gets destroyed by 2.0 HLC Bwings.
31 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:The trouble with Luke is that he is a very decisive HARD COUNTER to Soontir Fel. Meta spoiler is an understatement. In most matchups, Luke will be an inefficient 30 points. Against Soontir, Luke gunner is PRICELESS. His ability causes EXTREME variations in how a list will perform based on the matchup.
I forsee people trying to fly Soontir. Then, at their first 2e tournament, Leebo with Luke & Outrider title 1-shots a fully tokened Soontir trying to hide behind a rock, which doesn't help cause Outrider title.
Just pointing out that Soontir won't be as hyperdefensive due to lack of Palp and autothrusters. Also, taking two actions is pretty risky because he only gets the focus if his bullseye hits, and that's not a given! So most of the time he won't even have a small token stack, and definitely not double reposition because that needs a tiny mistake to leave him basically dead.
They basicaly admitted Luke will be overcosted, so he won't hurt the game. That said, I'm still sad that he doesn't improve the game, either. Would have preferred him to be viable and interesting. At least Lukes X-Wing looks very strong.
12 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:They basicaly admitted Luke will be overcosted, so he won't hurt the game. That said, I'm still sad that he doesn't improve the game, either. Would have preferred him to be viable and interesting. At least Lukes X-Wing looks very strong.
Yeah, at this point the best we can hope for is that Luke stays so ridiculously overpriced that he is literally never seen. He hard-counters so many imperial ships it isn't even funny.
1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:Yeah, at this point the best we can hope for is that Luke stays so ridiculously overpriced that he is literally never seen. He hard-counters so many imperial ships it isn't even funny.
They are at least aware of the issue and our concerns, hopefully if it does become an issue they'll act quickly
Nothing makes me feel more at ease with this card than the tears of arc dodge elitists. ?
6 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:Nothing makes me feel more at ease with this card than the tears of arc dodge elitists. ?
All the best arc dodgers in the game (fat turrets) love gunner Luke
Not sure what they'd be crying over
1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:All the best arc dodgers in the game (fat turrets) love gunner Luke
Not sure what they'd be crying over
I see what you did there.
tfw people are crying about luke when putting him on Han is going to cost 130 points, without the survivability of 3P0/Crew2D2
27 minutes ago, jimmius said:Crew2D2
fwiw, he does the same thing in 2nd Ed.
47 minutes ago, jimmius said:tfw people are crying about luke when putting him on Han is going to cost 130 points, without the survivability of 3P0/Crew2D2
"See guys this upgrade is fine because no one will use it!
Boy, I'm sure glad FFG took the time to design it instead of something interesting that could be used at all levels of play!
Yep, this card is fine."
30 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:"See guys this upgrade is fine because no one will use it!
Boy, I'm sure glad FFG took the time to design it instead of something interesting that could be used at all levels of play!
Yep, this card is fine."
Really? You still bring that same point, even after the AMA?
2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Really? You still bring that same point, even after the AMA?
Because the amazing did not change Luke gunner..... Still a badly designed card.
4 minutes ago, Icelom said:Because the amazing did not change Luke gunner..... Still a badly designed card.
You got to be kidding me. There is valid criticism of the card. But FFG had a clear and by now declared intention when they designed it.
So bemoaning them having designed Luke instead of another one is blatantly ignoring them for a lowblow that‘s not even remotely a good point.
Edited by GreenDragoon5 hours ago, ObiWonka said:Chicken Littles... Chicken Littles everywhere...
Just 'cause I'm Chicken Little doesn't mean the sky *isn't* falling ...
4 hours ago, Rakaydos said:
Meanwhile the Leebo/Luke list gets destroyed by 2.0 HLC Bwings.
I wouldn't be so sure. Leebo is I3 and the B-wing genenerics are I2 and I3. There's a decent chance Leebo gets to move and barrel roll after the B-wings, which would make lining up those HLC shots really hard.
24 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:Just 'cause I'm Chicken Little doesn't mean the sky *isn't* falling ...
You're not Chicken Little, you're Hawk Strike.
Not sure how this plays into the conversation, but I heard base Dash is 98 and base Leebo is 95. Not sure where the guy got his info, but if those are correct, pretty steep pricing. +30 for Luke, etc.
Idk. What if the only ship Dash can bring with him is a PS 1 A-Wing?
3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:You got to be kidding me. There is valid criticism of the card. But FFG had a clear and by now declared intention when they designed it.
So bemoaning them having designed Luke instead of another one is blatantly ignoring them for a lowblow that‘s not even remotely a good point.
Not ignoring them, I disagree with them.
Whilst Luke gives action efficiency, it is functionally no different to an initiative 6 with a bid.
Also, could it be through play testing they found arc dodgers oppressive so designed the hard counter in?
I don't see why you would put Luke on Han, use one of the other gunners that allows double taps and take a bid. Miles better against non arc dodgers, and still strong against them.
Luke on generics I can sorta see. But again, I'd take a double tap gunner every day of the week.
Edited by Roundy116123 minutes ago, Roundy1161 said:Whilst Luke gives action efficiency, it is functionally no different to an initiative 6 with a bid.
Also, could it be through play testing they found arc dodgers oppressive so designed the hard counter in?
I don't see why you would put Luke on Han, use one of the other gunners that allows double taps and take a bid. Miles better against non arc dodgers, and still strong against them.
Luke on generics I can sorta see. But again, I'd take a double tap gunner every day of the week.
No, that's not how mobile arcs work
If you rotate, you can't boost/evade/TL/focus w.e. it's also an action, meaning it can be stopped by overlapping obstacles/ships, ion, and stress
If you gunner Luke, you do what you want without thought or consequences.
It is NOT the same as high I + bid, and I don't know how people can confuse the two.
Edited by ficklegreendice
5 hours ago, __underscore__ said:fwiw, he does the same thing in 2nd Ed.
There actually is a difference. In 2.0, crew R2-D2 requires the ship to be damaged and have no shields in order to use the ability, while 1.0 crew R2-D2 only required no shields. It's a minor difference, but it does mean there are fewer times the ability will be useable, and it will always carry risk, unlike the 1.0 version, which didn't need to care about rolling a hit if it recovered a shield with no damage on the ship.