That seems really good. I’m sure there’s other things that are janky. But I am new to this game.

tempest is pretty meh in regular play, but great in CC. Zertik though, is a great advanced. Fel with advances in general though is fine, but more experienced players will generally find ways around letting you fel damage them to ****.

dengar + howlrunner + tie interceptors

(adds +1 to counter value), (adds +1 blue if you have swarm), (have counter)

other 'Janky' squadron stuff....

Soontir, Black, Howl, Dengar, Mauler, and Saber/Valen. That's a lose/lose squad ball for your opponent.

2 hours ago, Fuzzywookie said:

That seems really good. I’m sure there’s other things that are janky. But I am new to this game.

Its also not particularly threatening to ships.... so why worry about it?

16 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Its also not particularly threatening to ships.... so why worry about it?

gink quit ******** on new people, go against your nature for once

Running Sloane, Denger, Howlrunner, and interceptors flying near a ship with instructor goran gives you a counterball 5 and it’s still dangerous to ships

2 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Running Sloane, Denger, Howlrunner, and interceptors flying near a ship with instructor goran gives you a counterball 5 and it’s still dangerous to ships

my concern with lists like this is how the enemy might pick them apart. start with howl, then dengar then the ties, at a distance preferably. just puts a lot of points into being shot at.

H

11 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Running Sloane, Denger, Howlrunner, and interceptors flying near a ship with instructor goran gives you a counterball 5 and it’s still dangerous to ships

Having Corran and another E-Wing really helps to wittle down the counter-ball. I play Rebels, so other than Saber and IG-88, not sure what Imps have to deal with this.

Ciena and valen are a good combo. Can't shoot valen, ciena is obstructed.

Soontir mauler dengar: want to shoot mauler or dengar, but then soontir auto damages. Shoot soontir and mauler is around longer auto damaging.

44 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

my concern with lists like this is how the enemy might pick them apart. start with howl, then dengar then the ties, at a distance preferably. just puts a lot of points into being shot at.

That’s just more time the interceptors get to stay on the board sending haymakers into enemy squads

35 minutes ago, Admiral Calkins said:

H

Having Corran and another E-Wing really helps to wittle down the counter-ball. I play Rebels, so other than Saber and IG-88, not sure what Imps have to deal with this.

Basically if you really want to get on the surgical strike route ig/saber/jendon+ mauler for the splash will get it done, and you can add buffs to saber as you like with howl, flightcontrollers, etc

To pull off a good counterball you have to instigate the squad fight, and hit your opponent on a turn when you can lock down all their squads. Squall works nicely with this as you can move Howlrunner and Denger into support positions without engaging them, then jump the interceptors in and let the havoc begin. Works best if Ciena ree leads the strike.

5 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

tempest is pretty meh in regular play, but great in CC. Zertik though, is a great advanced. Fel with advances in general though is fine, but more experienced players will generally find ways around letting you fel damage them to ****.

Dominos. Quit s****** on new players ideas.

The fundamental problem with a true counterball (Dengar, Howlrunner, Interceptors, Goran and sometimes Stronghold) is that it makes two big assumptions: 1. “My opponent will bring enough squadrons for my investment to be cost-effective if I can kill them,” and 2. “he’s then going to come out of his flak range/try to engage me at all, even though I obviously put so much effort into punishing him if he does that.” If they don’t bring the specific archetype you want them to bring, and then choose to play in the specific (usually illogical) way you want them to play, it all falls apart. Stronghold will usually die if it gets close and Interceptors melt to flak, while doing very ineffective amounts of damage to ships. (Note this is not directed at Soontir + Tempest, who used to be nice in bomber fleets.)

3 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The fundamental problem with a true counterball (Dengar, Howlrunner, Interceptors, Goran and sometimes Stronghold) is that it makes two big assumptions: 1. “My opponent will bring enough squadrons for my investment to be cost-effective if I can kill them,” and 2. “he’s then going to come out of his flak range/try to engage me at all, even though I obviously put so much effort into punishing him if he does that.” If they don’t bring the specific archetype you want them to bring, and then choose to play in the specific (usually illogical) way you want them to play, it all falls apart. Stronghold doesn’t like getting close and Interceptors melt to flak, while doing very ineffective amounts of damage to ships. (Note this is not directed at Soontir + Tempest, who used to be nice in bomber fleets.

If they don’t bring fighters, then since you brought Sloane, you’re still useful against ships.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

If they don’t bring fighters, then since you brought Sloane, you’re still useful against ships.

Which raises the question of why you brought Interceptors and overpaid by three points each, when a swarm of plain TIEs with dice buffs would have done better (and still killed enemy squads just fine.) Sloane makes it a little more justified, but still not smart. Her fleets need every available point.

13 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Which raises the question of why you brought Interceptors and overpaid by three points each, when a swarm of plain TIEs with dice buffs would have done better (and still killed enemy squads just fine.) Sloane makes it a little more justified, but still not smart. Her fleets need every available point.

Because you don’t know?

If you go all in on basic Sloane ties, you lack that squad ball kill.

Its a compromise.

9 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Because you don’t know?

If you go all in on basic Sloane ties, you lack that squad ball kill.

Its a compromise.

If you run Howl + plain TIEs, you throw more dice offensively vs ships and squadrons, with more hull. With, say, Howlrunner and 11 generics, 47 Blue dice before Flight Controllers with 11-12 potential rerolls is enough to kill pretty much anything in the air; 12 blues vs ships is similarly terrifying. All 12 can be commanded by an ISD, Quasar and 2 Gozantis. The only ways Interceptors even look better on paper are speed and their counter. The difference between 4 and 5 is usually minor, but the Squall and Vector titles can compensate to allow an alpha strike. As for counter, if your opponent chooses not to shoot them, they don’t hurt as much. And that’s probably the fundamental problem I have with the Interceptor: you’re spending points to give your opponent choices. With vanilla TIEs, you’ve put your points toward choices you make, and you lose less every time a three hull fighter goes down.

One thing for a newer player to keep in mind is that for this to work both sontir and tempest need to be engaged with all the relevant enemies. So you want to be moving into combat rather than being engaged yourself as a smart opponent will only attack the one at a time leaving the other unengaged.

14 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

If you run Howl + plain TIEs, you throw more dice offensively vs ships and squadrons, with more hull. 47 Blue dice before Flight Controllers is enough to kill pretty much anything in the air; 12 blues vs ships is similarly terrifying. All 12 can be commanded by an ISD, Quasar and 2 Gozantis. The only ways Interceptors even look better on paper are speed and their counter. The difference between 4 and 5 is usually minor, but the Squall and Vector titles can compensate to allow an alpha strike. As for counter, if your opponent chooses not to shoot them, they don’t hurt as much. And that’s probably the fundamental problem I have with the Interceptor: you’re spending points to give your opponent choices. With vanilla TIEs, you’ve put your points toward choices you make, and you lose less every time a three hull fighter goes down.

I'll take the opposite end of the argument. Why buy 8 point TIEs, when, for 3 points more, I can get Interceptors. Greater threat range, increased damage to squadrons, and counter more than compensate for those points. The only way it is ever a "bad" investment is vs a all ship list, but even then you just changed your mindset. Attack in the same arc as your ships, until late, and use this zippy speed 5 Interceptors to chase down those wounded ships that escaped the turn 4 engagement alive. It is a compromise, but in all fairness, ship only fleets are rare, at leas in my local meta.

1 hour ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I'll take the opposite end of the argument. Why buy 8 point TIEs, when, for 3 points more, I can get Interceptors. Greater threat range, increased damage to squadrons, and counter more than compensate for those points. The only way it is ever a "bad" investment is vs a all ship list, but even then you just changed your mindset. Attack in the same arc as your ships, until late, and use this zippy speed 5 Interceptors to chase down those wounded ships that escaped the turn 4 engagement alive. It is a compromise, but in all fairness, ship only fleets are rare, at leas in my local meta.

Let the record show that you and Dras both make good arguments, and there’s merit there. I’ll try to do a better job emphasizing that. To address your claim on damage: point for point, Fighters do more damage vs squadrons. Interceptors are a poor investment vs not just squadronless lists, but any squadron complement you could have easily killed with Fighters, as you’re still throwing fewer dice. As for the speed difference: yes, 5 is an improvement, and there are situational benefits. That said, TIEs of any stripe don’t suffer for speed to begin with, and the titles Imperials have for speed buffs are highly convenient ways to get the necessary portion of your wing going speed 5 (or 4 + 2.) Admittedly, there is an argument to be made for Interceptors, (a high counter makes them ultimately harder hitting or less susceptible to damage from squadrons) but they only make any sense as an inclusion when considering their counter. And that’s where I lose interest, as that’s where I surrender control over whether my Interceptors will do cost-effective damage. I assume my opponent will always take the less convenient of the choices I’ve given him; it’s never a mindset that will disappoint. ?

Fair point of view. Whatever works for you. I just like taking my opponent's squadrons with me when he pops an Interceptor. Super easy when Dengar & Howlerunner are in the mix.