Just now, ObiWonka said:

Nope. They've said all ships are limited to one bonus attack per round. So no 3 shots ever.

So the second shot from a docked shuttle is also classed as a bonus shot? I wasn't sure since it's kinda/sorta a second ship.

I never said I wanted to go back to it. In fact, I said that critiquing the backwards step is a fair position. My point is that the rhetoric being thrown around is an overreaction, and Luke alone isn't necessarily going to have the effect that the PWT meta did.

Let's hope you're right. I'm alarmed but willing to see how things play out. Really have been hoping non-Soontir Tie interceptors become a thing though, and this kind of threatens that.

6 minutes ago, Brianish said:

I never said I wanted to go back to it. In fact, I said that critiquing the backwards step is a fair position. My point is that the rhetoric being thrown around is an overreaction, and Luke alone isn't necessarily going to have the effect that the PWT meta did.

they're going to need to prove that

I've been defending 2.0 because I truly believed the developers have shown that they have learned from the many, many problems of 1.0 and have taken concrete steps to address them

Luke gunner is just the one glaring, inexplicable, and unjustifiable exception

especially if they're doing the (pre-luke) intelligent thing with 1.0 turrets turned mobile arcs (i.e, making them cheaper because they're not as good anymore). if we end up getting a cheaper fat han, then we truly know the madmen are running the asylum

Luke is going to need to be at LEAST 30 points to stay safely in the realm of mere auto-include

7 minutes ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

So the second shot from a docked shuttle is also classed as a bonus shot? I wasn't sure since it's kinda/sorta a second ship.

I was trying to find the card that allows another shot to look at the exact wording, but I can't seem to find it.

Here we go, looks like we're safe from this threat at least! Han gunner on a Ghost could provide pretty powerful coverage, but probably won't be an efficient use of points and arcs then. It'll be interesting to see though if overlapping turret and primary arcs count as different for the purposes of the Han card because that double-tap could still be pretty crazy good and wouldn't require the shuttle.

Han Gunner does not say it's a bonus attack. I think that means it takes up your regular attack. Also I think the mobile arc icon refers to (pwt or upgrade, probably just pwt, since it's not the turret upgrade icon), not the specific arc used to fire the turret weapon.

These are hopefully reasonable guesses based on the hopefully assumption that the designers are not fully crazy.

well, we don't know if you can't stack Han shot + primary/auxiliary arc against the same target

the icons on Han's card leave that question up in the air

Incard noting it doesn't say "bonus attack" is interesting, though

1 minute ago, Incard said:

Han Gunner does not say it's a bonus attack. I think that means it takes up your regular attack. Also I this the mobile arc icon refers means that Turret Weapon (pwt or upgrade), not the specific arc used to fire the turret weapon.

These are hopefully reasonable guesses based on the hopefully assumption that the designers are not fully crazy.

On the stream it sounded like you get a shot at 7 and when when your ship would normally activate as long as they're in different arcs. Could have been just awkwardly stated though.

Interesting. I had to watch with it muted for part of the broadcast. Based on that info, plus thinking about other cards we've seen, like Veteran Turret Gunner and Veteran Tail Gunner, I am changing my guess to say Han Gunner does allow an extra attack, just as those cards do. But I am thinking that the mobile arc icon refers to any and all arcs of the given weapon, so the only way to get more than one attack per round from the ship Han Gunner is equipped to would be if that ship also has another weapon, like a (\/) primary weapon or something. Emphasis on guess.

Is a lot of the worry about this combo based on the translation of a Polish card that might be a hoax spoil in the first place?

For folks referencing the Han gunner upgrade, the card referenced mobile firing arcs only. So far the only ships with the dual mobile arc are the K-wing, YT-1300,and YT-2400.

There's no reference to any primary or secondary firing arcs. So no Ghost multi shots with Han, as the Ghost/Phantom ability specifically mentions shots out the rear arc, after a turret or primary shot.

2 hours ago, Brianish said:

...

He's potent, and you can argue that it's a poor design decision, but it's not a sky-is-falling situation. There were other PWTs; only Han dominated the meta. If Luke's expensive enough, and R2 and 3PO are powered down, it'll be fine.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

and yet, partially modified shots were all fat han needed to necessitate the introduction of autothrusters and the gradual toilet-bowl spiral into later x-wing 1.0

it's like we've all forgotten what happened not that long ago

while I personally believe a Han gunner ghost will be FAR stronger if it works like I think it does, there really is no reason to believe bringing back 1.0 turrets is okay for any reason

I'm not sure why you think the Han Gunner provides additional attacks. It's explicitly disallowing extra attacks, albeit only of a certain type. Let's look at the card text, as you already showed it:

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

you pretty much got luke

if he's as he was translated in the polish spoilers, we're back to 1.0 turrets and defeating the purpose of 2.0 in one fell swoop. It is a disastrously stupid design decision that I can only hope is the result of poor translation or some masterful trolling

Han I have no idea. you can definitely shoot twice out of two different sides, which really isn't that big a deal. You need a VERY obliging opponent to set that up.

what's more intriguing is that his icons aren't arcs, but mobile arc indicators. So, if he's placed on something like a ghost or Y which has their mobile arc overlapping their primary, can that ship then shoot twice out of that same arc (once with turret, then with primary)?

I'm guessing that you're interpreting the wording to mean that Han Gunner grants an attack at initiative 7, then allows the regular attack at normal initiative. But the card doesn't say that. Rules give you one attack. This one gives you one at IN 7, but only if you're using a mobile arc. It does not grant a bonus attack. What it does say is that if you have a way to get a bonus attack, you can't use your mobile arc for that bonus attack (and thus, it also isn't at IN 7).

Basically, it lets Han Shoot First. But he only gets one shot to do so each turn.

Edit: I'll admit, the one possible loophole is that we don't know what the 2.0 rules say, so I'll grant the possibility after all. But I am assuming the rules will only allow one attack + one bonus attack, based on info we've gotten so far. With no bonus attack being granted, this card shouldn't be providing multiple attacks.

Just take a swarm with Sloane and watch the Falcon fall off the board.

45 minutes ago, Tyronis said:

For folks referencing the Han gunner upgrade, the card referenced mobile firing arcs only. So far the only ships with the dual mobile arc are the K-wing, YT-1300,and YT-2400.

Actually, I'm almost positive the Decimator also has a dual mobile arc. Or are you just talking about Rebels?

10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Actually, I'm almost positive the Decimator also has a dual mobile arc. Or are you just talking about Rebels?

The only way Han is getting on a Deci, is in the form of rebel captive.

On an unrelated note, I want an alt art rebel captive that is Luke.

Fat Han same power level? Not really. With evades no longer adding extra dice, Fat Han can't absorb hits like he could with an evade action and C3PO. Damage will get pushed through by swarms. Plus to get rerolls he needs to stay near obstacles.

Or the title. I'm really curious to see how this all shakes out, and I don't think we're going to know for a long while. Just that some things are neat, and some are worrying.

2 hours ago, PenguinBonaparte said:

I agree it's probably not going to be devastating, yet we have a history of thinking that before. I had the privilege to briefly chat with Alex Davy at an event way back when (and from my extremely limited interactions he is a terrific person!) and he thought Dash and the Decimator wouldn't make a big change, just diversify the existing turret lists a little. 

And you know what? At the time, he was right. Guess which PWT featured prominently and won worlds that year? It wasn’t Dash or a Deci. It was Fat Han. Dash was always good, but didn’t really start making a splash until after Phantoms we’re nerfed and Aces faded away. The Deci saw some use at the time only because it was the Empire’s only PWT (still is actually), but it wasn’t until Emperor Palpatine came to personally oversee things and Kylo showed up and started destroying console panels that Read Admiral Chiraneau decided to shape up and get some real work done.

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

and yet, partially modified shots were all fat han needed to necessitate the introduction of autothrusters and the gradual toilet-bowl spiral into later x-wing 1.0

it's like we've all forgotten what happened not that long ago

while I personally believe a Han gunner ghost will be FAR stronger if it works like I think it does, there really is no reason to believe bringing back 1.0 turrets is okay for any reason

Normally I agree with most of your posts FGD but I think you’re way overreacting on this one. At best, Luke will be a crutch that players use befor they learn to git gud. It’s rarely worthwhile to spend points on a card when you can get the same effect by simply practicing and learning to gauge your opponent and the board state. See also:

- Intelligence Agent

- Navigator

- Boba Fett (imperial)

- Stay on Target

- Hera (pilot)

When was the last time any of those cards were tearing up the meta, even when combined with each other?

Also, people keep saying this but everyone seems to immediately forget it 1 second later but we don’t know the point costs yet. We can’t say what is or isn’t broken because we don’t know how much they cost yet. If Gunner!Luke costs 50 points then you’ll never see him. So wait and see.

And even then, it’s one card. One card that lets you do something special is NOT the developers throwing their entire stated purpose out the window. The whole point of upgrade cards and pilot abilities is to let you do things that the fundamental rules don’t allow you to do.

And lastly, even if I’m completely wrong and Han Solo with Gunner!Luke breaks the game then at least it will be Han Solo and Luke Freaking Skywalker in the Millenium Flipping Falcon tearing up the meta instead of Joe Blow Mc-Never-Heard-Of-Him flying in some butt-ugly ship that 99% of Star Wars fans wouldn’t even recognize!!!

You know what? Screw it. I’d be down for that. Dear @FFG, please make Gunner!Luke 1 point upon release and never change it. Heck, let’s give Chewy an awesome pilot ability and let crew!Leia do something kick-a** and lets have a super-fluffy Episode 4 build win Worlds next year, shall we?

#LukeSkywalkerForPresident

5 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

And you know what? At the time, he was right. Guess which PWT featured prominently and won worlds that year? It wasn’t Dash or a Deci. It was Fat Han. Dash was always good, but didn’t really start making a splash until after Phantoms we’re nerfed and Aces faded away. The Deci saw some use at the time only because it was the Empire’s only PWT (still is actually), but it wasn’t until Emperor Palpatine came to personally oversee things and Kylo showed up and started destroying console panels that Read Admiral Chiraneau decided to shape up and get some real work done.

Nah, maybe not Worlds, but I ran into tons of Dash and Decimator stuff even before the Emperor came out or became popular. Granted, I had some fun with Soontir getting all up in Dash's grill, but in Regionals that year it was pretty pervasive. You're also forgetting about some really mean Decimator-Vader stuff. IIRC, and this may be wrong, long time ago, he didn't seem to be bothered by turrets at all at that point.

Just now, PenguinBonaparte said:

Nah, maybe not Worlds, but I ran into tons of Dash and Decimator stuff even before the Emperor came out or became popular. Granted, I had some fun with Soontir getting all up in Dash's grill, but in Regionals that year it was pretty pervasive. You're also forgetting about some really mean Decimator-Vader stuff.

Oh They were both there, they just didn’t really change anything at the top-tier levels. They simply provided some alternative PWT choices.

Which is exactly what Alex predicted.

Well up to the regional level then we both had some extremely different experiences. Dash also really forced all but the most fortressy of Imperial ships, namely Soontir and Whisper, way out of the meta.

8 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

And you know what? At the time, he was right. Guess which PWT featured prominently and won worlds that year? It wasn’t Dash or a Deci. It was Fat Han. Dash was always good, but didn’t really start making a splash until after Phantoms we’re nerfed and Aces faded away. The Deci saw some use at the time only because it was the Empire’s only PWT (still is actually), but it wasn’t until Emperor Palpatine came to personally oversee things and Kylo showed up and started destroying console panels that Read Admiral Chiraneau decided to shape up and get some real work done.

Normally I agree with most of your posts FGD but I think you’re way overreacting on this one. At best, Luke will be a crutch that players use befor they learn to git gud. It’s rarely worthwhile to spend points on a card when you can get the same effect by simply practicing and learning to gauge your opponent and the board state. See also:

- Intelligence Agent

- Navigator

- Boba Fett (imperial)

- Stay on Target

- Hera (pilot)

When was the last time any of those cards were tearing up the meta, even when combined with each other?

Also, people keep saying this but everyone seems to immediately forget it 1 second later but we don’t know the point costs yet. We can’t say what is or isn’t broken because we don’t know how much they cost yet. If Gunner!Luke costs 50 points then you’ll never see him. So wait and see.

And even then, it’s one card. One card that lets you do something special is NOT the developers throwing their entire stated purpose out the window. The whole point of upgrade cards and pilot abilities is to let you do things that the fundamental rules don’t allow you to do.

And lastly, even if I’m completely wrong and Han Solo with Gunner!Luke breaks the game then at least it will be Han Solo and Luke Freaking Skywalker in the Millenium Flipping Falcon tearing up the meta instead of Joe Blow Mc-Never-Heard-Of-Him flying in some butt-ugly ship that 99% of Star Wars fans wouldn’t even recognize!!!

You know what? Screw it. I’d be down for that. Dear @FFG, please make Gunner!Luke 1 point upon release and never change it. Heck, let’s give Chewy an awesome pilot ability and let crew!Leia do something kick-a** and lets have a super-fluffy Episode 4 build win Worlds next year, shall we?

#LukeSkywalkerForPresident

I feel like I save @ficklegreendice a post by writing:

Luke allows you to disregard stress, and react to a perfect board state.

Comparing him to something that allows you to that simply reveals information, is like comparing a PS 1 boost to a PS 9 one.

3 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Is a lot of the worry about this combo based on the translation of a Polish card that might be a hoax spoil in the first place?

This is not a hoax. The card is from official distributor website and it's translated correctly. It's in my main language.