I'm curious what is the smallest fleet possible while remaining effective?
For example let's assume a 400 point game, could a significantly smaller point fleet such as 250 or 300 even have a chance and what would it be composed of?
What is the lowest costed fleet you've run or encountered?
Edited by ForrestoYou’d have to have pryce on a quasar with a crap ton of bombers for the last/first bombing run, and even then its risky.... maybe add demo as a finisher and play REAAAALY cagey with it?
I don't think you need to even contemplate a 100 point bid. A bid of 30 is the most I have seen but I did hear of 38 once. If you NEED to go first then a 15-20 point bid should get you 90% chance but you can never exclude the possibility of meeting another guy at a tournament who has the same idea as you. I prefer to learn to play second and design fleets that don't just have one tactic. Large bids are a symptom of single tactics and it can make you predictable and vulnerable to certain fleet types.
My favourite bid is 1-3 points. It gets you the choice more often than you would think and you haven't given up ECM on the flagship and 2 sets of Gunnery teams to get it.
1 hour ago, Mad Cat said:I don't think you need to even contemplate a 100 point bid. A bid of 30 is the most I have seen but I did hear of 38 once. If you NEED to go first then a 15-20 point bid should get you 90% chance but you can never exclude the possibility of meeting another guy at a tournament who has the same idea as you. I prefer to learn to play second and design fleets that don't just have one tactic. Large bids are a symptom of single tactics and it can make you predictable and vulnerable to certain fleet types.
My favourite bid is 1-3 points. It gets you the choice more often than you would think and you haven't given up ECM on the flagship and 2 sets of Gunnery teams to get it.
This- I’ve been building fleets to 400 recently and just been happy with what my opponent gives me lol
3 hours ago, Forresto said:I'm curious what is the smallest fleet possible while remaining effective?
For example let's assume a 400 point game, could a significantly smaller point fleet such as 250 or 300 even have a chance and what would it be composed of?
What is the lowest costed fleet you've run or encountered?
The cap on flotillas has changed the math on this drastically. The lowest bid I ever ran in a tournament was by accident, but not by much: 358 points, which should have been 366 but was missing Engine Techs. That fleet managed to just barely squeeze into the semifinals cut during the last Vassal World Cup, so it's definitely viable with excellent play.
The issue with bids is that they have to produce a material impact on the game. That effect might be setting up for last-first assaults on multiple rounds, it might involve forcing the opposing player to pick from your carefully chosen objectives. My fleet was designed from the ground up to last-first an opponent multiple times beginning on turn 3, and it had to execute every game to succeed. All of my upgrades were designed to do one of 3 things:
I was able to do this because with Flotillas making up 2/3rds of my ship count, I had 140 points left over to spend on only the best upgrades focused on those three tasks without having to spend on alternative choices such as Strategic Adviser that might take away valuable upgrade options.
The biggest bid I ever saw was at UK nationals. One guy brought a Raider 1 with Tarkin. Nothing else. That’s a 318pt bid!
He then proceeded to deploy facing his back line and fly his ship off the board on Turn 1, then dropped after the first round. Turned out he just wanted the Alt Art... so I wouldn’t recommend that approach.
I always go full 400, no bid. If you can’t make a list where your objectives and play make second player as effective as first player, it’s a bad list in my opinion. My experience may have been shaped by having a regular opponent who always bids over 20pts, so I have had to practice second a lot!
I never like to waste points you can all ways fit more firepower in ?
7 hours ago, XR8rGREAT said:I never like to waste points you can all ways fit more firepower in ?
Firepower that doesn't kill is worthless.
Focus on goals that you want to accomplish, then build towards those goals. That dictates if a bid is worth investing in or not. If a bid is worth investing in, invest as hard as you can until your goals are no longer being met. Then add points back in. When you have a defined goal, you'll find that your fleet almost chooses itself.
3 hours ago, thecactusman17 said:Firepower that doesn't kill is worthless.
Focus on goals that you want to accomplish, then build towards those goals. That dictates if a bid is worth investing in or not. If a bid is worth investing in, invest as hard as you can until your goals are no longer being met. Then add points back in. When you have a defined goal, you'll find that your fleet almost chooses itself.
Ive only played a handful of games me and my friend haven't really delved into the missions yet just getting the hang of the game. But we will start taking the missions into account with our list building and start to experiment with lists.
35 minutes ago, XR8rGREAT said:Ive only played a handful of games me and my friend haven't really delved into the missions yet just getting the hang of the game. But we will start taking the missions into account with our list building and start to experiment with lists.
Missions are designed goals, but the nature of mission selection meansyou don't always get the mission selection you want.
Your goal should always be independent of mission selection, but it can still be "win on objectives." If your goal isto Erin on objectives, you should be setting a bid around going second against players with no/low bids.
5 hours ago, XR8rGREAT said:Ive only played a handful of games me and my friend haven't really delved into the missions yet just getting the hang of the game. But we will start taking the missions into account with our list building and start to experiment with lists.
If you're just getting into the game or you want to explore/learn about fleets that *really* want to go first, then I'd suggest you and your opponent play a few games where you design a fleet that does a 10ish point bid (for first) and see how it works. There are a few general archetypes for fleets that want to go first, but here are a couple basic ones that are easy to wrap your head around:
-Last/First -> this means you need more activations than your opponent so that your key ship can activate last in the round on turn X and then first the next round (turn X + 1). Examples are: pretty much anything with Demolisher, multiple MC30s, large base ship with strong attack modifier upgrades. Best if the key ship for turn X can get the enemy target to move into their desired range for the attack, then attack and move right up next to them, then turn X + 1 delivery a killing/crippling double arc and either nav away or pin them in place for another ship to finish off (depending on what key ship you are building around).
-Fighter alpha strike -> you need a ship that can activate 4+ squadrons that can reliably take out enemy squadrons or put several points of damage on the hull zone the ship will attack (that activation). Examples are: something with Sloane, an ISD I or II (again, Sloane is good for this), or a Quasar with Flight Controllers. Pretty simple - on turn X -1, make sure that ship gets a squadron token and that the squadrons are close enough to attack the target(s) next turn, then turn X just have a squadron command and concentrate your fire (don't spread it out).
If you're doing casual games with your buddy, I'd print up whatever cards you want to try that you don't already have - Armada wiki sites and FFG itself have images. I'd also still go through the exercise of picking your 3 objectives because as others have mentioned, when you play for real, your bid for first might not work out so your objectives will matter in that game.