If Luke provides a free action, he is slightly better

Still the same brainless pwt but at least you can't boost/roll with red actions, giving you a single choice to make as opposed to none

Unless EU is super affordable again. It's great for hwks but we really shouldn't have to relive 1.0 large base boosts

And the link to the thread:

Google says that "Na poczatku fazy walki mozesz wyden 1 (force symbol) aby obracie wskazinik (symbol)" means "At the beginning of the combat phase, you can spend 1 (force symbol) to rotate the pointer (symbol)"

Luke primarily benefits low initiative pilots.

Equipping Han with one of the gunners that grants multiple attacks seems much stronger when you can move and then boost or rotate arc after enemy ships have moved.

15 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

Luke almost certainly provides a rotate action, which means he's susceptible to stress.

I mean the polish version does not say action anywhere in it....
so you are basing this off what? wishful thinking? all evidence right now says he can just move the turret.

Thanks @mdl0114

26 minutes ago, NoZone said:

Luke primarily benefits low initiative pilots.

Equipping Han with one of the gunners that grants multiple attacks seems much stronger when you can move and then boost or rotate arc after enemy ships have moved.

frees up action

action --> boost

better for higher initiative

fat han etc.

Even as a prospective Imperial pilot, I'm not terribly concerned about Gunner Luke.

Does he make it an easy mode? Yes and no. He functions as a failsafe. But if you are flying a swarm, attack from multiple vectors. If the three ships I listed are the only ones with a gunner slot, they all have 1 agility. So far it seems even a two attack ship can inflict damage.

As noted, it is one ship. We also don't know which ships luke can indeed go on. We know the Falcon/yt-1300, Y-wing, and the K-wing.

We don't know yet if the yt-2400 has a gunner slot, same with the HWK-290, though the Vcx likely does, but it has a forward weapon which cannot be rotated unless it buys a turret.

Equipping Luke also means that you give up another more offensive option.

Really it is a wait and see issue.

I remember the whole "Swarm counters fat han" from wave 5

didn't work then, and if anything Han is much better suited to surviving swarms

between this and his ability, he gets 3 chances to score an evade, effectively granting him reinforce (and potentially far more at range 3 and/or obstructed)

and ofc this would be perfectly fine normally, everyone needs to stand some chance against the oncoming swarm, but combined with 1.0 PWT mechanics it's just a recipe for disaster. we've already been here, folks. we know how it ends

there is zero justification for a pre-combat, action independent rotate, especially when 1.0 Autothrusters no longer exist. all it will do is screw over ships like the Interceptor and Striker which require good positioning to use effectively, objectively going against the designers explicitly stated objective for this edition of the game

the only actual solution is Luke gunner not actually rotating at the beginning of engagement. That is the ONLY thing worth waiting to see

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I remember the whole "Swarm counters fat han" from wave 5

didn't work then, and if anything Han is much better suited to surviving swarms

between this and his ability, he gets 3 chances to score an evade, effectively granting him reinforce (and potentially far more at range 3 and/or obstructed)

and ofc this would be perfectly fine normally, everyone needs to stand some chance against the oncoming swarm, but combined with 1.0 PWT mechanics it's just a recipe for disaster. we've already been here, folks. we know how it ends

there is zero justification for a pre-combat, action independent rotate, especially when 1.0 Autothrusters no longer exist. all it will do is screw over ships like the Interceptor and Striker which require good positioning to use effectively, objectively going against the designers explicitly stated objective for this edition of the game

the only actual solution is Luke gunner not actually rotating at the beginning of combat. That is the ONLY thing worth waiting to see

Or make him cost like... 20 points.

Han alone will be above 100, I'm pretty sure. If you start slapping on upgrades, you will run out of them quickly.

I'm not sure a 150 point fat han build (taking into consideration the price increase the Devs have been talking about) is going to be too much of a trouble.

cost is irrelevant, unless it costs at least an x-wing

fat han costed a lot of points and was not okay

if the mechanic is so fundamentally broken, someone will break it and it will end up instantly auto-include on every rebel pancake. end of line.

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

cost is irrelevant, unless it costs at least an x-wing

fat han costed a lot of points and was not okay

if the mechanic is so fundamentally broken, someone will break it and it will end up instantly auto-include on every rebel pancake. end of line.

If a 1 agility 13 health ship costs 75% or more of your squad, yes it does matter.

4 (maybe 5) Concussion missile Inquisitors (generic) with the new force deadeye talent.

12(15) dice first round, with mods. How long do you think the Falcon is going to last? And then i do it again next turn.

Oh, I have 3 dice and a focus for defense. You won't be able to take one down in a round.

And this isn't the most broken missile alpha strike list... It's something I thought up in 10 seconds, with ~30% of cards known.

Yes, it matters what it costs.

1.0 Luke was 7, now he would be 14. but he got much stronger, it makes sense he would be even more expensive. 1.0 fathan is about 60 points (not with luke). 120... But then again, ace tax, turret tax, plus the ship got much better...

If we are at 150 points, you are not going to put too much things there. An A-Wing. Captain Rex. Rookie pilot.

So yes, it does matter. The offensive capabilites might scale up with the points, but the defense was gutted.

Also, You can just bring seismics and ruin Han's day big time. No rocks, no bonuses.. and if he hangs around them, he will get blown up.

Quote

I remember the whole "Swarm counters fat han" from wave 5

didn't work then, and if anything Han is much better suited to surviving swarms

I never had any real trouble with my swarm vs fat turrets until 3P0 combined with the other over the top defense mods. It was always arc dodgers that ripped the swarms apart. Swarms were the counter to big fat ships until the defensive mods managed to render 2 dice attacks worthless.

People forget blocking is a thing and will matter way more in 2.0 where actions are far more precious. There is no Expertise that laughs at your attempted block and then blasts something with near full dice mods.

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

We can only hope

Polish Luke gunner spoiler threatens to defeat the purpose of 2.0

If he's as pants sh*ttingly brain addled as spoiled, kiss the importance of positioning goodbye

You know what I realized? Init 6 turret ships are nearly Luke Gunner anyway?

4 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

You know what I realized? Init 6 turret ships are nearly Luke Gunner anyway?

no, they're not

why do people not understand this? Luke is not an action

you cannot block him, stress him, or force your opponent to choose between rotating or doing any other action (such as boost)

if you put luke on a turret, they can effortlessly rotate however they please to shoot whatever they want and still boost out of harm's way without thought or consequence. there is zero counterplay, it's a 1.0 turret

16 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

I never had any real trouble with my swarm vs fat turrets until 3P0 combined with the other over the top defense mods. It was always arc dodgers that ripped the swarms apart. Swarms were the counter to big fat ships until the defensive mods managed to render 2 dice attacks worthless.

You do realize that VS the swarm the new falcon title is better then c3po right?

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

no, they're not

why do people not understand this? Luke is not an action

you cannot block him, stress him, or force your opponent to choose between rotating or doing any other action (such as boost)

if you put luke on a turret, they can effortlessly rotate however they please to shoot whatever they want and still boost out of harm's way without thought or consequence. there is zero counterplay, it's a 1.0 turret

Yep, and if they don't have to move the turret they get a free dice mod from the force token with no way to stop.

25 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Every other faction got it RIGHT. Where's your #rebelbias?

Something is happening... I'm not the happy X-Winger I should be. I want more... and I know I shouldn't.

I bet they FAQ this card to make it be treated as a 'free action'. Yay FAQs!

4 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

And?

You only need 1 fat turret in a list

You could only ever fit one

"Oh this horrible mechanic is fine, you can only put one in a list!"

If they could make 3PO 8 points nobody would ever have taken him. At 7 maybe a couple. Turrets *existing* wasn’t ever the problem. Stop your whinging.

By my calculations, generic Strikers should cost 32-33 points to be balanced with the new T-65 X-wings. That means you should be able to fly 6x strikers. T-65 X-wings will likely cost 42-43 points to be balanced with TIE fighters. It is highly unlikely that 5x X-wings will be possible in 2.0

1 minute ago, Dengar5 said:

It is highly unlikely that 5x X-wings will be possible in 2.0

If they are, TIE fighters need a serious buff.

They mentioned an article dealing with unknown TIE pilots (BF2 stuff)... I have an unlikely theory that 5 X-Wings are possible, and there are reinforcement mechanics for TIE-s with rules about coming out of Reserve.

So that the maximum number of TIEs at any given times remains 8, but there are ways to get more out of them.

You heard it here first

23 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

If they could make 3PO 8 points nobody would ever have taken him. At 7 maybe a couple. Turrets *existing* wasn’t ever the problem. Stop your whinging.

turrets existing is a fundamental game design problem that the developers themselves have identified and rectified for 2.0, for every case outside of Luke gunner.

bring some substantive arguments or quit wasting everyone's time

I don’t like Luke gunners ability. I broadly agree with fickle on the idea of just disliking it on principle, whatever the cost. That said, it’s also true that with changes to defense, the Falcon is absolutely vulnerable to 2 die attacks again. At range 1-2, the most he can dodge is a single hit. No matter the re rolls, Evade action, it’s a maximum of one. So while I find the idea he can boost around with essentially a 1.0 PWT annoying as ****, at least I know when I line up some shots I’m doing damage as well.

If Luke costs something like 30 points, I think we will be okay. If it’s 20 or below though, and it DOES create the same old primary turret stupidity of old, hopefully some good ol chaps will abuse it enough to get it bumped up in squad points to the point it’s not worth taking at all. Im fine with it being a dead card competitively that has a sole purpose of being a training wheel card.