11 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you CANT ever ionize a large base

Range 1

Not with my dice you can't

yeah Dace cost way too much which is why you never saw him - that and the turret tax.

Torkhil and Palob were used despite being overpriced because their abilities were useful.

yeah Dace cost way too much which is why you never saw him - that and the turret tax.

Torkhil and Palob were used despite being overpriced because their abilities were useful.

yeah Dace cost way too much which is why you never saw him - that and the turret tax.

Torkhil and Palob were used despite being overpriced because their abilities were useful.

yeah Dace cost way too much which is why you never saw him - that and the turret tax.

Torkhil and Palob were used despite being overpriced because their abilities were useful.

There's no reason the HWK can't have a secondary turret as well. Especially since I doubt it will have a gunner slot. I'm not saying it will (it looks like quite a nice support ship with just its primary), but its still a possibility. It makes sense to me that in the case of having a primary and secondary turret, the secondary turret would adopt the primary turrets mobile arc, and you would choose which weapon to attack with after target acquisition. That is how cannons work so I can't see why this couldn't carry over to turrets. Like I said, I don't know if it will be the case, but there is certainly space for it to work.

It does seem like Dace's ability is an auxiliary ability though. As others have mentioned he has no target restrictions and can trigger on any ship in range that meets the prerequisite of receiving ion. So Dace to me seems like a nice failsafe for if your other ion inducing ships have bad rolls, or you need to hit that big ship at the right moment etc. Dace doesn't have to have access to ion turret to be useful.

3 hours ago, Reiver said:

On 5/18/2018 at 8:21 PM, Dengar5 said:

So Dace is only effective against medium and large base ships. ? What a terrible pilot ability redesign. Just one of the many nerfs that scum got.

And his text demands you overkill the number of ion tokens when targeting a Medium ship, at that. Not going to lie, his effect is... oddly specific.

An active nerf, though? I had not seen Dace around much previously. One suspects he will simply continue to not be seen much afterwards. 

Dace's old ability did DAMAGE which is always useful. He wasn't used because Palob had a better pilot ability AND was 3 points cheaper. Dace's old pilot ability in a correctly costed 2.0 HWK could have been the centerpiece of some fun list designs that we will now never seen.

8 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

Dace's old ability did DAMAGE which is always useful. He wasn't used because Palob had a better pilot ability AND was 3 points cheaper. Dace's old pilot ability in a correctly costed 2.0 HWK could have been the centerpiece of some fun list designs that we will now never seen.

They changed it for the same reason they changed Sabine's and Vader's ability. They stated they want to move away from indefensible auto-damage.

1 hour ago, BVRCH said:

There's no reason the HWK can't have a secondary turret as well. Especially since I doubt it will have a gunner slot. I'm not saying it will (it looks like quite a nice support ship with just its primary), but its still a possibility. It makes sense to me that in the case of having a primary and secondary turret, the secondary turret would adopt the primary turrets mobile arc, and you would choose which weapon to attack with after target acquisition. That is how cannons work so I can't see why this couldn't carry over to turrets. Like I said, I don't know if it will be the case, but there is certainly space for it to work.

It does seem like Dace's ability is an auxiliary ability though. As others have mentioned he has no target restrictions and can trigger on any ship in range that meets the prerequisite of receiving ion. So Dace to me seems like a nice failsafe for if your other ion inducing ships have bad rolls, or you need to hit that big ship at the right moment etc. Dace doesn't have to have access to ion turret to be useful.

That kind of situational utility tends to end up dangerously close to dead on arrival - for example, if you plunk your list down and the opponent is flying something so radical as a list with all small ships your fancy pilot ability is automatically invalidated completely .

This is not good design.

... On the other hand, it's possible that one of the funky upgrades out there like Ion Dischargers might come into the game with an effect like "You may remove ion tokens from a ship within range 0-1. For every ion token removed, that ship recieves one (hit) damage."
(I don't know I haven't gotten the hang of the 2.0 wording style yet, but you get the idea)

At which point he becomes a monster

So really, even with pilots like this? It's simply too early to say.

It's possible that the HWK may get a title or two other than the Moldy Crow that allows it to treat its primary turret as an ion turret or another.

I'm so eager to play the new HWK.

1 hour ago, Reiver said:

That  kind of situational utility tends to end up dangerously close to dead on arrival - for example, if you plunk your list down and the opponent is flying something so radical as a list with all small ships your fancy pilot ability is automatically invalidated completely .

 This is not good design.  

That’s not necessarily true. VI is a perfect example. Bidding up to PS 10 can be completely and utterly useless; if I’ve got only generics, then you’ve wasted both a point and a slot. The reason the card was so good was that, in the one or two games where it does come into play, the advantage it grants is huge. Dace is *potentially* the same; if you can turn that one hit on a big ship into 3 tokens, it’s potentially game changing. It’s like your ion shot just rolled five hits or something crazy, and your opponent has to play around that.

I also feel like Medium and Large ships will be pretty common. Some lists will have none, but I’d imagine most will have at least one. At the very least, it’s a great meta-counter ability.

1 hour ago, Reiver said:

That kind of situational utility tends to end up dangerously close to dead on arrival - for example, if you plunk your list down and the opponent is flying something so radical as a list with all small ships your fancy pilot ability is automatically invalidated completely .

This is not good design.

... On the other hand, it's possible that one of the funky upgrades out there like Ion Dischargers might come into the game with an effect like "You may remove ion tokens from a ship within range 0-1. For every ion token removed, that ship recieves one (hit) damage."
(I don't know I haven't gotten the hang of the 2.0 wording style yet, but you get the idea)

At which point he becomes a monster

So really, even with pilots like this? It's simply too early to say.

Situational design is not at all bad design. His potential to guarantee ionizing a large base is equal to the potential of facing an all small base list. Yes it might not be top tier, but the majority of the pilots in the game will suffer from this, that's literally what the meta game is. Not all pilots can be equal.

I do agree that is too early to properly gauge his value though. If Ion turret/conner net Y-wings become a big thing then he'll be great, who knows. As I said before, he might get the ion turret himself then his ability is quite self sufficient, we simply don't know.

One other thing to consider; unlike the 1.0 version, this new HWK looks like it could be a valuable fighter all on its own . If it's sporting a 3 dice primary weapon, it's a significant attacker on the field, regardless of whether or not the special ability is used.

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Edit: **** you CANT ever ionize a large base (without torps) in one shot because 1 hit does damage and the rest ions. So your ion turret only does two tokens at most

...oh, hi Dace!

Nope. Turrets and cannons now get range bonuses. So you can line up that perfect 4 dice shot.

Not very easy to ionize large ships in one shot, but possible.

I liked Dace in 1st Edition. In second, even if I keep my Scum (a tertiary faction to convert), I'll probably rather go to Torkil.

Being ionised seems less bad in 2.0 though. So not sure if Dace is worth it, in 1.0 he did additional damage.

On 5/18/2018 at 10:21 PM, Dengar5 said:

So Dace is only effective against medium and large base ships. ? What a terrible pilot ability redesign. Just one of the many nerfs that scum got.

The forums are exploding about Han and Luke Gunner breaking the game and people are saying that you will never use Dace's ability? Am I hearing this right? He is a great counter to any large ship and Luke Gunner. All you need is one Ion hit on the big ship (not too hard to do with low agility) and you can make sure he's ionized next round!

I can see that they give it a cool down or you would just walk ships off the board.

Personally, I think it's a big counter to big based ships. You know that Dash and Han will get played a lot. You know they will cost large amount of a list. With Dace, as long as you can get at least one Ion splash on them you can make sure they are ionized next turn! That can be utterly devastating, especially if you have more non-ace ships in your list.

I'm thinking that v2 will work best with 4-6 ships that are different kinds. More like a toolbox list.

Torkil has no Range o_O

41 minutes ago, Wibs said:

Torkil has no Range o_O

Abilities that are in-arc with no range listed are usually considered as 1-3, probably just 0-3 in 2.0

On 5/19/2018 at 2:12 AM, Innese said:

Now as much as much as I love the Scum HWKs, Dace was never all that good, something about 2.0 Dace raises a question.

As we can see, his ability still triggers off of Ion, which in 1.0 would usually come from an Ion Turret. In 2.0 however, we know the HWK has a primary mobile arc; is it possible the HWK will still have a turret slot? If so, will the turret use the same mobile arc as the primary, or its own? Or is it just that you will need other ships to support Dace’s ability? Discuss!

Dace should be good against large based ships (presuming that scum have some ion-inducing trickery), but with both the YT ships having respositioning I don't see him being a hard counter by any stretch, what with the recharge requirements of his ability and the blue nature of the ion token.

...

...

WAIT!

I just realised - you're only allowed to do a focus after doing an evade! Which shuts off the Falcon title, any repositioning and, if they've taken any Gunner rather than Luke (I know, I know, for whatever reason), the ability to rotate the turret.

On 5/18/2018 at 8:12 PM, Innese said:

only card that's arc and range limited so far is Vader (crew), because he's range 0-2 (ditto Palob)

willing to believe they have a clause in the rulebook that clarifies in-arc abilities as being range 0-3 limited, just so they don't have to repeat it on every single card

You're probably right, no range for Jan Ors neither

On Friday, May 18, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Innese said:

Or is it just that you will need other ships to support Dace’s ability? Discuss!

I hope that there is a means by which Dace can fuel his own ionic pec-flexing, if only because Scum are a bunch of greedy good-for-nothings and helpful high-fives should be limited to Brobots and the Mindlinked. Just me own two cents.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

I can see that they give it a cool down or you would just walk ships off the board.

Except Moralo Eval!
Srsrlytho, I worked hard in 1.0 to make Dace Bonearm work, mostly because I hate myself his awesome name. The new ability seems like it could provide a much-needed knee to your opponent's metaphorical groin game plan, without a cooldown selfsame ability would be absolutely honkin' bonkers.

I'm hopeful, 'specially if he's coming in at a bargain basement junker price point.