Would just like to check how does the tournament system work for terrain in Legion? as stipulated in the rrg terrain should fill about 25% of the space, but who brings the terrain in the tournament? Does each player bring 12.5% worth of terrain?

If so, this opens up to another thought: Bringing your 12.5% that is to your build's advantage. If you want to field fleet troopers, bring terrain that is higher than trooper height and with lots of spaces for trooper units to hide. If commandos/scout, bring lots of light cover to use low profile. If snow troopers and other troops with env gear, bring difficult terrain to slow the opponent down. If 74z/T-47 and troopers, bring all your barricades for a clear flight ?

3 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:

If 74z/T-47 and troopers, bring all your barricades for a clear flight ?

Seriously? I would bring a 2025 cm2 lake and done.?

I think most organisers will have tables ready and you so the compedetive setup with the terrain aviable. I doubt you get to bring your own cheatbuilt terrain

This has always been an issue with wargames in a competitive setting, and has been a perpetual source of arguments and disagreements between players for forty years now. The less formal the rules are for exactly what terrain gets used and where it gets placed on the table, the greater the arguments.

Terrain has a huge impact on the course of the game (perhaps even the most impact of any element of the game), and each player's force will prefer certain kinds of terrain (as you've noted). At the most basic, a ranged-attack themed force wants as much open space as possible, with nice high perches on their own side of the battlefield. A close-combat themed force wants a littered battlefield with a ton of obstructions to shield from long-range fire. etc etc etc



The vast majority of tabletop wargame games are played casually, in a basement, game room, or at the local shop between friends with no stakes on the game. So tables can be set up that "look cool" with the friends navigating a balance for their own preferences on terrain. But when you have people traveling and paying to play in competitive tournaments where you expect a fair and neutral playing field against strangers, the "terrain aspect" becomes a much larger issue. It's one of the biggest reasons why the friends I know who play games like 40k tend to love the game casually but don't want to go anywhere near a tournament.

Terrain should be set up by tourney orginizer before. We are going to talk about the terrain with the whole group before we begin. That will take some of the arguments away.

Yeah, pass. Another reason why I’m only playing this game for the fun of it with friends.

X-wing has nice and standardized terrain so it works much better for a tournament based game.

Well in the idea world you have different tables set up, which with a theme and enough varied terrain that you pick your half's worth, your opponent does the same, the rest is set aside. When that game is over, you rotate to a different table. You should always have enough choices in terrain that you can fit it to your list needs. With that said, in the ideal world........

I put a big investment in both time and cash into some imperial terrain, but considering the time I put into it, I am happy to play with other terrain too. One can get sick the the same thing, over and over again.

7 hours ago, jocke01 said:

I think most organisers will have tables ready and you so the compedetive setup with the terrain aviable. I doubt you get to bring your own cheatbuilt terrain

Tournament document directly contradicts this.

7 hours ago, jocke01 said:

I think most organisers will have tables ready and you so the compedetive setup with the terrain aviable. I doubt you get to bring your own cheatbuilt terrain

1 minute ago, Zrob314 said:

Tournament document directly contradicts this.

The Tournament Regs actually support what @jocke01 is saying. The TO is expected to provide the terrain, enough to cover 3'x18". The players are expected to use the competitive terrain rules during setup, however.

5 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

Tournament document directly contradicts this.

Actually it does say exactly what I meant. Orginazer have tables ready and players use compedetive setup with the terrain aviable.

The regulations weren't even released by the time of my original post ?

The TO "In addition to arranging a location, the organizer is responsible for securing tables that can hold a 3’ by 6’ play surface for each game of two players, as well as terrain for the play surface and chairs for players."

I expect that TO's will ask for help, and where the terrain seems to be less than useful just return it unused. Players all should be able to supply 8-16 barriers if nothing else after all.

8 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

The Tournament Regs actually support what @jocke01 is saying. The TO is expected to provide the terrain, enough to cover 3'x18". The players are expected to use the competitive terrain rules during setup, however.

According to Page 4: Organizer Materials required items are

Tables that can hold 3x6 surface (mats preferred but not necessary)

Table Numbers

Blank Lists

Pens

Rules Reference

Tournament Regs

Event Outline (if applicable)

It doesn't say a thing about the TO being required to provide any terrain.

Page 6: Using Custom Terrain:

Organizers and players may use custom terrain to fulfill the terrain requirements for each game. If the organizer provides terrain for a tournament, they must ensure each table has a variety of terrain types. If players are asked or allowed to bring their own terrain, the organizer should place that terrain at tables as they would place the store’s to ensure fairness amongst all competitors. The owner of the custom terrain should ensure they mark the terrain in order uniquely identify the terrain at the end of the event.

I see in this that the TO can provide all of the terrain but is in no way expected that they will unless they announce that they will.

6 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

Actually it does say exactly what I meant.

No, it does not. Read it again. And yeah, I know they weren't out yet. It was just still on my screen from earlier.

@Zrob314

Well, look at that. I mistook the part about "constructed terrain" to mean the TO had to supply the terrain. They were referring to a constructed table instead of a mat, which is totally different than custom terrain.

Quote

While the organizer can mark the required play area on a table with tape or another simple method, providing playmats or a constructed terrain in 3’ by 6’ dimensions to create friction and prevent minis from sliding out of place is strongly recommended.

Okay, pointed out in the Tournament Regs thread, the full text from the Tournament Organizer on page 4 of the full document (as opposed to the TEXT version) Bold emphasis is mine.

Quote

Organizer Materials
In addition to arranging a location, the organizer is responsible for securing tables that can hold a
3’ by 6’ play surface for each game of two players, as well as terrain for the play surface and
chairs for players. While the organizer can mark the required play area on a table with tape or
another simple method, providing playmats or a constructed terrain in 3’ by 6’ dimensions to
create friction and prevent minis from sliding out of place is strongly recommended.
The organizer should have table numbers on hand or some other method of demarcation so
players can easily find their seats at the beginning of each tournament round. The organizer is
responsible for having blank army lists and pens available if they are required for the event.
Finally, the organizer is also responsible for having all required rules documents on hand for
reference during the event. This includes the Star Wars: Legion Rules Reference, Star Wars:
Legion Tournament Regulations (this document), any Event Outline relevant to the event, and
any other relevant document for the event. Most of these documents can be found on the Star
Wars: Legion page of our website.

6 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

I see in this that the TO can provide all of the terrain but is in no way expected that they will unless they announce that they will.

Yeah, people can bring their own terrain and the terrain, not the owner, gets assigned to a table. It basically allows for the organizer to have outside people bring in terrain for the event, not individual use. I have terrain and have zero issue with sharing my toys for an event.

9 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

No, it does not. Read it again. And yeah, I know they weren't out yet. It was just still on my screen from earlier.

Still looks like what I meant so ?

For me on a personal level, I would hate to be playing this lovely game in a situation where im picking terrain to take/place to try gain an advantage.

I play at home with family and friends and I build any table for games..I try make it as neutral as possible every game, regardless of lists and regardless pf who will have what table edge.

4 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

For me on a personal level, I would hate to be playing this lovely game in a situation where im picking terrain to take/place to try gain an advantage.

I play at home with family and friends and I build any table for games..I try make it as neutral as possible every game, regardless of lists and regardless pf who will have what table edge.

Yep, I have a theme for my board at home and I try to stick true to theme more than anything else. Make it neutrally balanced in terms of placement of terrain pieces and call it a day. I build stuff that looks like it could have a place at a remote Imperial outpost on a forest moon.

The only oddball thing on my board are some Tatooine style buildings a friend gave me (he printed an excess). So I painted them up with a dark green dome and some copper/steel mix and said oh look, Imperial barracks. Totally feasible even if we never saw it canonically.

5 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

For me on a personal level, I would hate to be playing this lovely game in a situation where im picking terrain to take/place to try gain an advantage.

I play at home with family and friends and I build any table for games..I try make it as neutral as possible every game, regardless of lists and regardless pf who will have what table edge.

This thread is about "tournament" terrain placement, though, and Legion definitely allows for placing terrain to gain an advantage with the Competitive Terrain Placement rules. In my experience with wargaming Legion has one of the most impactful game setup phase (Turn 0) with the Battle Card process and the terrain placement process.

Heh, just had a mental image of Jason Bateman commentating the setup phase of a championship Legion game...

59 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

This thread is about "tournament" terrain placement, though, and Legion definitely allows for placing terrain to gain an advantage with the Competitive Terrain Placement rules. In my experience with wargaming Legion has one of the most impactful game setup phase (Turn 0) with the Battle Card process and the terrain placement process.

Heh, just had a mental image of Jason Bateman commentating the setup phase of a championship Legion game...

Aye, its why I highlighted the personal bit...I just wouldnt like to think I was placing scenery to gain advantage(or my opponent doing the same).

If I were joining a tournament, id much prefer the organiser to set things up prior.

Oh I just happen to have an army of fleet troopers, how lucky I have this long pcs of terrain that blocks LOS half way across the board, cutting out lots of range 3-4 shooting....but dosnt actually have a huge table footprint.(or a few pcs that line up near each other to do the same)

On 5/16/2018 at 8:25 AM, jocke01 said:

I doubt you get to bring your own cheatbuilt terrain

This is the clause that I'm saying the document contradicts.

45 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

This is the clause that I'm saying the document contradicts.

Good luck showing up with a custom designed terrain piece that is made to give your army maximum advantage and being able to decide were it get's deployed

5 hours ago, jocke01 said:

Good luck showing up with a custom designed terrain piece that is made to give your army maximum advantage and being able to decide were it get's deployed

You keep moving the goalposts.

As a TO:

I can run an 8 player tournemtnt at my FLGS without terrain donations.

If I’m running a bigger tournament than that, I can dip into my personal pool for 4 more players.

At which point, then, and only then do i illicit donations of terrain from players.

They can bring what they wish, but it is then up to me, the TO, to ensure that all tables have the same appropriate mix of terrain types on it.

the players don’t decide the mix.

12 hours ago, VAYASAN said:

If I were joining a tournament, id much prefer the organiser to set things up prior.

I have set up terrain for many a tournament and it is hard work, often at the cost of having one or two learning sessions. Quite often while setting up I would imagine what I would do if I was to play on the table and I would set up a wonderful array of and variety of terrain and the players would completely ignore those bunkers that were enfilade to the first turn approach and hills that would allow a slow advance and just slog down the road.

As the rules stand you deploy terrain then the blue player selects his side, so he blue player can tip things up a little, but as you don't yet know the mission you have to be a little "ballanced" with things. Load up your side and play break through, not a good idea, you will leave your terrain and give it up to your opponent for the end game.

I think too the very cool idea is that all the terrain will be pooled together and the TO will just farm out enough to each table. So even if one player does try and game the system it is likely he'll just see his terrain spread over 3-4 tables or not used. Mind you 4 Battle Kiwi landing pads on the same table just seems evil.

As an alternative you could have the first round be that in which the players of that game deploy the terrain and keep it in place for the remainder of the tournament.