7 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Back on the topic of MEDIUM IMPERIAL ships as the OP says (before it was hijacked by team Venator and Rebels in general)

I think at this point a Dreadnaught Heavy cruiser is a likely Imperial Medium. Problem is the Victory. Either it will suck, in order to not completely replace the Victory, or it will completely replace the exceedingly mediocre at literally everything VSD. Imperials already have a mediocre-but-now-expensively-bandaided ion platform in the Interdictor and a capable carrier in the Quasar. And then there is the generalist Victory. I would REALLY like to see the design space the Victory's are squandering filled, but doing that in the form of a new ship that most casual Star Wars fans wouldn't even be able to identify as a Star Wars ship seems far to X-Wing to me.

If *I* were going to design a Dreadnaught though, based on design space and aesthetic design, I think the Support Refit Nebulon would be a great starting point . Keep all the command stuff the same (Antisquad battery 1 blue, command 2, 1 squad, 3 engineering). Set it on a medium base, add 2 blue to the front and 1 red to the sides keep the rear 2 red. Keep the nav chart the same. Give it a redirect instead of an evade. Up the hull to 6 and beef the shields to 4, 3, 3, 2. Keep the upgrade slots the same but add an ion cannon slot (Giving it Officer, Support, Ion, Turbo - a pretty light suite). Add 20pts to put the cost at 71. Give it 2 titles that inform the roles it plays and not be some generalist garbage like imperials typically get. Boom. Done.

Lol that ship has isd shields

7 minutes ago, dominosfleet said:

Lol that ship has isd shields

So does the Assault Frigate. But yea that Dreadnought is undercosted.

What i'd like to see stat-wise for the standard Dreadnought? Hull 8, Shields 3/3/3/2, Speed 2 but with a great maneuver chart.

Command 3, Squadron 1, Engineering 4.

2 Red and 2 Blue Front, 1 Red and 2 Blue sides and 1 Red and 1 Blue rear, with 1 Blue Anti-Squadron.

27 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

So does the Assault Frigate. But yea that Dreadnought is undercosted.

It’s actually costed just right having 1 squadron value. It’s something the Imps really need, a combat ship that doesn’t have its points bloated for a higher squad value it won’t even use

1 hour ago, MandalorianMoose said:

It’s actually costed just right having 1 squadron value. It’s something the Imps really need, a combat ship that doesn’t have its points bloated for a higher squad value it won’t even use

I would do something like this.

5 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

I would do something like this.

Careful on the point costs. That's a lot of dice, and with the dice control that Vader gives, along with GTs, Engine Techs, and XI7s on these puppies, that's one **** of a broadside. Maybe cost them a little closer to the Assault Frigate A, which is 81 base, however, I may be overestimating their worth.

8 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

I would do something like this.

That's diabloazuls thats been around forever, and is incredibly outdated based on current ships. DZ had some good ideas, as he used the mc30 as his basis of design. But this is garbage. What weapon team does it want? What turbolaser? Obviously the **** nav chart is with the excuse "but engine techs" but 8pts is a PREMIUM for a conditional nav increase that can't jump over ships.

I'm sorry, but this ends up being another imperial shelf ornament to collect dust next to vsds, interdictors, and arquitens.

5 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

however, I may be overestimating their worth.

You are. The AF is 72 pts and this is worse than that in every single measurement except for the extra 1 blue out the side and front.

Victory Kuat Refit: Has defense team slot to get engine techs.

Victory _______ Refit: has whatever they decide to give it because I'm too busy being excited for a victory that has engine techs.

I always thougt that the Dreadnought should be medium sized. It should be a cheaper than VSD Imperial broadsider with still horrible movement chart and lotsa offensively uses slots with no defensive whatsoever

If not my beloved relics, then maybe Acclamator would be right. Definitely not a Venator, those are almost as big as an ISD.

Vindicators!

19 minutes ago, Jukey said:

Vindicators!

But.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V5cg6Sv7nxFOUiVxFp4CCqb-dKeppPCs/view?usp=sharing

Small base looks nice.

3 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

That's diabloazuls thats been around forever, and is incredibly outdated based on current ships. DZ had some good ideas, as he used the mc30 as his basis of design. But this is garbage. What weapon team does it want? What turbolaser? Obviously the **** nav chart is with the excuse "but engine techs" but 8pts is a PREMIUM for a conditional nav increase that can't jump over ships.

I'm sorry, but this ends up being another imperial shelf ornament to collect dust next to vsds, interdictors, and arquitens.

I disagree. I would use that ship. As Npmartian suggested - XI7, GT, and either Engineering team or Engine techs. With Vader for rerolls, along with a Cymoon.

Arqs, interdictors and victories do not collect dust. Snipafist (among others) has shown how good Interdictors are, Arqs are still used with Cymoon (and can be nasty with Vader) and VSDs still have their uses.

3 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

Victory Kuat Refit: Has defense team slot to get engine techs.

Victory _______ Refit: has whatever they decide to give it because I'm too busy being excited for a victory that has engine techs.

Do you mean support team slot?

I'd also vote for the Dreadnought/Imperial support ship as the next Imperial medium. Some thoughts:

• Lock it at speed 2 as well (no support slot), and introduce cards in the pack to help it with slow-play that can be back-ported to the VSD. For instance, if Quad Battery Turrets were not already a thing, they'd be perfect for the Dreadnought pack for use on the VSD. More cards to help slow ship play. If another Imperial locked-at-2 ship is in play, then that becomes an option instead of the VSD becoming a limitation. So long as, again, cards in the DRD pack are designed to help the VSD at slow speed/lack of defense as well.
• Make it a broadsider as well, no reason for the ARQ to be alone. It's also a way to guarantee the DRD is not replacing the VSD, since tweaking arcs is the easiest/quickest way to differentiate ship types.
• Give it fighter 2 and an offensive weapons slot to allow it to be a pocket carrier. I'm disappointed that the GSD can't be this, and I always wanted to have one of the gunships come with a sort-of carrier option.
• Ions/Turbos are the change between them. Could be a DCap Ion boat or a Turbolaser gunship.
• Give this resiliency. It's a space tank, possibly without a defensive retrofit as well to encourage cards to help ships without defensive retros (like... the VSD).

3 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

That's diabloazuls thats been around forever, and is incredibly outdated based on current ships. DZ had some good ideas, as he used the mc30 as his basis of design. But this is garbage. What weapon team does it want? What turbolaser? Obviously the **** nav chart is with the excuse "but engine techs" but 8pts is a PREMIUM for a conditional nav increase that can't jump over ships.

I'm sorry, but this ends up being another imperial shelf ornament to collect dust next to vsds, interdictors, and arquitens.

XI7s with Gunnery teams or Slaved Turrets with Veteran Gunners, either one with Vader or Thrawn. Intel Officer in the passenger seat (no need for Tua with double braces). Surround with ARQs and have a Firespray fighter cover. I've had plenty of success with Arquitens and took second place in a tournament with three of them recently, so if this is a bigger ARQ, count me in.

Rendilli StarDrive Refit VSD - like a vsd1 but cheaper and only comes with officer, defensive and turbolaser slots

CEC Refit VSD - like a Vsd2 but has the spd and maneuverability of an isd

4 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

CEC Refit VSD - like a Vsd2 but has the spd and maneuverability of an isd

What would this cost? How many points must it be, so that you don't just take an ISD, or say it is too close to a VSD? It will likely completely kill the Vic-II.

IMO Venator should be large. Would even thinks out nicely while adding a large broadside ship to the Empire.

My choice for medium ship would be the Broadside-class cruiser, with new rules/upgrades for long range ordnance barrages (for example diamond boron missiles: may be fired at medium-long range only). Would add a new class of ship. Too slow and fragile to be used in the same way as other black-dice heavy ships.

Edit, now with pictures. Sorry if I stole anyone's artwork in making these.

in order not to replace existing imperial mediums......

Why not release it with cards (but not slots) for the Experimental Retrofit, with titles for the VSD OR upgrades limited to Medium Star Destroyers?

Edit 2 - Or if doing the Venator... how about doing 3 cards/vairents? Each with different weapon upgrade slots (missile, ion & turbo) but they have 2 of them?

The conundrum is- do we want another sluggish medium ship- so may as well stick with the victory or a fast medium base, that may make the Vic even more relegated...

Offensive Retrofit: Victory Star Destroyer only

Replacement Engines 10 points:

Add a speed 3 column to the speed chart... movement clicks are (top to bottom) 1,1, -

just an off the cuff idea....

2 hours ago, Norsehound said:

I'd also vote for the Dreadnought/Imperial support ship as the next Imperial medium. Some thoughts:

• Lock it at speed 2 as well (no support slot), and introduce cards in the pack to help it with slow-play that can be back-ported to the VSD. For instance, if Quad Battery Turrets were not already a thing, they'd be perfect for the Dreadnought pack for use on the VSD. More cards to help slow ship play. If another Imperial locked-at-2 ship is in play, then that becomes an option instead of the VSD becoming a limitation. So long as, again, cards in the DRD pack are designed to help the VSD at slow speed/lack of defense as well.
• Make it a broadsider as well, no reason for the ARQ to be alone. It's also a way to guarantee the DRD is not replacing the VSD, since tweaking arcs is the easiest/quickest way to differentiate ship types.
• Give it fighter 2 and an offensive weapons slot to allow it to be a pocket carrier. I'm disappointed that the GSD can't be this, and I always wanted to have one of the gunships come with a sort-of carrier option.
• Ions/Turbos are the change between them. Could be a DCap Ion boat or a Turbolaser gunship.
• Give this resiliency. It's a space tank, possibly without a defensive retrofit as well to encourage cards to help ships without defensive retros (like... the VSD).

XI7s with Gunnery teams or Slaved Turrets with Veteran Gunners, either one with Vader or Thrawn. Intel Officer in the passenger seat (no need for Tua with double braces). Surround with ARQs and have a Firespray fighter cover. I've had plenty of success with Arquitens and took second place in a tournament with three of them recently, so if this is a bigger ARQ, count me in.

Tadah. Well I edited the shield values to match my Cruiser version but the image didn't update....

But overall. This is a nice support variant. Good opportunity to add in more fleet support options too. Maybe a medium only variant that boosts squadron support role.

^Maybe drop side shields to 2? & cost accordingly.

I do really like the Vindicator design but it should really be a small base, as should the dreadnought/ISV

5 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

What would this cost? How many points must it be, so that you don't just take an ISD, or say it is too close to a VSD? It will likely completely kill the Vic-II.

Not if you don't give it an Ion slot, and drop the Squadron value to 2.

Venator for Imperials - all the way. Easy choice there.

Second choice would be the Wolf, (The Legends Dreadnought's from the Kitana Fleet), as seen in the Rebels Finale. Make it dual faction ship, available to both classes.

Third would be a black lion, that when combines with the green, red, blue, and yellow lions, forms Voltron - Defender of the Universe!

@GhostofNobodyInParticular Whatever you call it. I always call it defense because it's the opposite of the assault team slot.