In the example builds I’ve seen so far, Luke and Vader haven’t been equipped with EPT’s. They’ve had Force upgrades (Sense, Instinctive Aim...). Maybe that’ll keep the otherwise bonkers Force Pilots in check...
Has anyone seen an example build with a Force pilot with an EPT?
Just because the samples didn’t have it doesn’t mean they won’t.
Until we have the app to see upgrade slots I’d be very hesitant to assume anything.
Luke and Vader both had EPTs in the tutorial videos I've seen.
Also, slots can change at any time now that the ship cards don't have the slots printed directly on them, so who knows?
No, they won't have EPT’s.. instead they will have what is just called a Talent.
From what I have heard, and this may be incorrect, the Force abilities use the talent slot, but have the requirement of needing Force charges to equip.
One of the nice things about the app is that it allows more complex rules for who can equip what that would be clunky to explain in card text/icons.
Looking at the upgrade icon on Sense, that does appear to a separate upgrade slot from Talents. I actually think this means they will not mix them, for balance reasons. Then again, they may decide it's okay at some point or for a specific pilot.
why wouldnt they?
Force isnt a whole new "slot" specific to certain pilots, its THAT pilot's ability with a fancy "force" title and passive regen charges (1 per turn normally) instead of the limited resource charges upgrades tend to have atm.
Force stuff isnt added on, it IS their ability.
5 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:why wouldnt they?
Force isnt a whole new "slot" specific to certain pilots, its THAT pilot's ability with a fancy "force" title and passive regen charges (1 per turn normally) instead of the limited resource charges upgrades tend to have atm.
Force stuff isnt added on, it IS their ability.
It's both. They have a an ability and some force charges, and likely that ability spends force charges, but there's also a Force upgrade slot of some sort, which can add and/or spend force charges. E.g. Sense, which is basically intel agent at range 0-1, or range 0-3 if you spend a force to make it so.
I suspect we will also see generics who have no ability, but just a 1 or 2 force rating, allowing them to spend force tokens to mod dice, and equip force upgrades, but not having anything specific of their own to spend them on. E.g. generic inquisitors, royal guards, gand findsmen.
Literally every force pilot weve seen so far their ability is using force charges.
I.e. it IS their ability. Like i said, its just not a 100% finite use ability such as the TIE guy that cancels a hit once
6 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:Literally every force pilot weve seen so far their ability is using force charges.
I.e. it IS their ability. Like i said, its just not a 100% finite use ability such as the TIE guy that cancels a hit once
Well, except Luke, who does the opposite. His ability gives him back Force charges.
1 hour ago, Ixidor said:Looking at the upgrade icon on Sense, that does appear to a separate upgrade slot from Talents.
That's right. The "meant to be covered" left half of upgrade cards display the requirements for equipping the card. "Sense" displays a Force token, meaning that only ships with a Force stat can equip the card (what about ships that gain the Force stat due to a crew upgrade?), or only those with the Force Talent (?) upgrade icon. This means that Force-wielding pilots could have both a Talent and a Force Talent (not sure on the name). Some pilots might have a Force Talent slot & a regular Talent slot, some may just have the Force Talent slot. This is another example of good design space through good categorization.
We’ve heard on a stream that there will be a generic TAP with a Force score. So far, every card with a Force score has also had the recover triangle next to the Force score. This suggests that there will be cards with a Force score without the recover triangle. Maybe this leaves open some design space where some card like the generic Force wielding TAP could equip a Force Talent (or whatever they name it) but will only have a limited number of uses.
Will Force Talents be a “flavor” of the normal Talents? Will Vader be able to equip Predator if he prefers?
I’m excited to find out.
50 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:why wouldnt they?
Force isnt a whole new "slot" specific to certain pilots, its THAT pilot's ability with a fancy "force" title and passive regen charges (1 per turn normally) instead of the limited resource charges upgrades tend to have atm.
Force stuff isnt added on, it IS their ability.
Force IS a whole new slot, though. This is a Force upgrade card (I don't think we know exactly what the slot is being called but I'm calling it Force for now).
This is a Talent upgrade card
7 minutes ago, Ixidor said:Force IS a whole new slot, though. This is a Force upgrade card (I don't think we know exactly what the slot is being called but I'm calling it Force for now).
This is a Talent upgrade card
The question is, are these going to be mutually exclusive, or is it an either or situation?
I hope they don't get EPTs.
Force points are very powerful in there own right (free, unpreventable dice-mods that can be used on both offense and defense). In addition force-talents are designed around breaking the rules of the game (look at opponents dial/ fire tops without TL...).
Meanwhile 2.0 EPTs seem to be designed around making you better at certain aspects of the game, like shooting, dodging or flying. Being able to stack those on top of each other could easily lead to problems.
In addition it makes list-building more interesting as it actually gives you a reason to field non-force-users.
Edited by Duskwalker23 minutes ago, J1mBob said:We’ve heard on a stream that there will be a generic TAP with a Force score. So far, every card with a Force score has also had the recover triangle next to the Force score. This suggests that there will be cards with a Force score without the recover triangle. Maybe this leaves open some design space where some card like the generic Force wielding TAP could equip a Force Talent (or whatever they name it) but will only have a limited number of uses.
Will Force Talents be a “flavor” of the normal Talents? Will Vader be able to equip Predator if he prefers?
I’m excited to find out.
Why does the existence of generic force users suggest that these force users will not regenerate their force points? So far everything the devs have said support the idea that every force user will regen one force per round. Maybe we'll get a weird force user that has 3 force but doesn't regen, but that will likely be the exception, not the rule.
10 minutes ago, Duskwalker said:I hope they don't get EPTs.
Force points are very powerful in there own right (free, unpreventable dice-mods that can be used on both offense and defense). In addition force-talents are designed around breaking the rules of the game (look at opponents dial/ fire tops without TL...).
Meanwhile 2.0 EPTs seem to be designed around making you better at certain aspects of the game, like shooting, dodging or flying. Being able to stack those on top of each other could easily lead to problems.
In addition it makes list-building more interesting as it actually gives you a reason to field non-force-users.
I agree with all of this. Having it as a separate upgrade slot when it's arguably quite similar does make it possible to allow both slots, though. So they may not do it right away but may allow it later once they've got a stronger feel for how well they'll interact.
But I kind of hope they don't do it either, let them have a unique thing instead.
2 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:Why does the existence of generic force users suggest that these force users will not regenerate their force points? So far everything the devs have said support the idea that every force user will regen one force per round. Maybe we'll get a weird force user that has 3 force but doesn't regen, but that will likely be the exception, not the rule.
The existence of the recover triangle is what in my mind suggests there may be Force users that do not regenerate. If they all regenerate/recover their Force tokens, then they could have covered that in the base rules and wouldn’t have needed a triangle to denote it.
Then if I take this detail a step further and assume non-recovering Force users, then my mind goes to the devs’ comment about generic TAP pilots with Force scores.
Just now, J1mBob said:The existence of the recover triangle is what in my mind suggests there may be Force users that do not regenerate. If they all regenerate/recover their Force tokens, then they could have covered that in the base rules and wouldn’t have needed a triangle to denote it.
Then if I take this detail a step further and assume non-recovering Force users, then my mind goes to the devs’ comment about generic TAP pilots with Force scores.
The other possibility is upgrade cards which provide a force token but do not have the triangle.
The other other possibility is that the triangle icon is there as a reminder rather than as an exception.
Just now, J1mBob said:The existence of the recover triangle is what in my mind suggests there may be Force users that do not regenerate. If they all regenerate/recover their Force tokens, then they could have covered that in the base rules and wouldn’t have needed a triangle to denote it.
Then if I take this detail a step further and assume non-recovering Force users, then my mind goes to the devs’ comment about generic TAP pilots with Force scores.
Not necessarily, I agree with you however that does not mean there will be any that don't regen as of right now. They learned many things in 1.0 and the biggest was to leave the design space as open as possible. So they could have no plans for a none regening force user but decided there was no reason to limit themselves in the future if they decide they want one.
We just won't know any of this until release.
6 minutes ago, Ixidor said:The other possibility is upgrade cards which provide a force token but do not have the triangle.
The other other possibility is that the triangle icon is there as a reminder rather than as an exception.
I think it's for consistency with charge tokens, which will or won't regenerate depending on the upgrade.
The triangle icon being a reminder of getting a force token back also leaves open space for multiple triangles (regen more than 1 a turn) or triangles on other types of tokens (charges, perhaps on something like Bomblet Generator).
Edited by Ixidor4 minutes ago, Ixidor said:The triangle icon being a reminder of getting a charge back also leaves open space for multiple triangles (regen more than 1 a turn) or triangles on other types of tokens (charges, perhaps on something like Bomblet Generator ).
You shut your mouth. If they have infinite bombs in 2.0, I've just saved about $200.
14 minutes ago, Icelom said:We j ust won't know any o f this until rele ase.
I believe the main element we will not know until release is points cost. If the rumors are true that FFG plans a full unboxing this Friday, then we may soon see examples of Force users without the recover triangle or a Versio type pilot with a recoverable charge. I think the reason a full unboxing this early surprises so many of us is because “fully spoiled” used to mean we could proxy the new content fully. But with all upgrade slots and point costs no longer on the cards, even a full unboxing leaves us waiting for the full release.
Just now, gamblertuba said:You shut your mouth. If they have infinite bombs in 2.0, I've just saved about $200.
Well, something LIKE it, not necessarily it. Something that is reasonable to be used once a turn and needs to be tracked by removing a charge.