25 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Clearing stress does nothing for the lack of mods after doing a barrel roll. And clearing stress more easily is great, but is still nothing compared to a current FAA yeing having its full dial open every round, AND can barrel roll every round (within Iran limitations). In 2e if you want to br every round you lose a ton of maneuverability and get no mods. That’s a huge difference.

Not really as the FAA becomes a non factor once arcs are aligned. Useless then.

2e allows a 1 maneuver action to barrel roll for Y wings. Lather rinse repeat. Far more effective now than the FAA version and the astromechs will only provide greater utility to take advantage of it.

To be continued...

22 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

2e allows a 1 maneuver action to barrel roll for Y wings. Lather rinse repeat. Far more effective now than the FAA version...

No, it's not. At all.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

No, it's not. At all.

This. As I’ve said multiple times already. FAA letting you repslosition, even only sometimes AND get a mod all while keeping your dial completely open is WAY better than being able to br as a red action and be limited to blue moves, even with the addition of a 1 bank.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

This. As I’ve said multiple times already. FAA letting you repslosition, even only sometimes AND get a mod all while keeping your dial completely open is WAY better than being able to br as a red action and be limited to blue moves, even with the addition of a 1 bank.

BTL Ys flown properly in formation under will be far more challenging. Especially with turret range 1 bonuses.

Yup, I'm not even sure how this is a discussion. Is the basic 2nd Edition Y-Wing frame better than the basi1st Edition Y-Wing? Cost depending, yes. Red barrel roll, additional green maneuver, one less shield, one more hull. And the ability to take a gunner, apparently.

But is a basic 2nd edition Y-Wing better than a 1st edition Y-Wing with FAA? Not a chance. Circumstantial Boost or Barrel roll as a free action in addition to Focus or Target Lock is much better than the changes listed above. You can even throw Expert Handling on to make the Barrel Roll white and the FAA version will still come out on top.

28 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yup, I'm not even sure how this is a discussion. Is the basic 2nd Edition Y-Wing frame better than the basi1st Edition Y-Wing? Cost depending, yes. Red barrel roll, additional green maneuver, one less shield, one more hull. And the ability to take a gunner, apparently.

But is a basic 2nd edition Y-Wing better than a 1st edition Y-Wing with FAA? Not a chance. Circumstantial Boost or Barrel roll as a free action in addition to Focus or Target Lock is much better than the changes listed above. You can even throw Expert Handling on to make the Barrel Roll white and the FAA version will still come out on top.

This, very much so.

It's almost like 2.0 is attempting to make basic ships more capable, but at the expense of losing out on the crazy-*** upgrades that were scattered everywhere.

Not having a focus is probably the only saving grace. But, we haven't seen all of the astromechs. If any give mods to attack, it will not bode well.

3 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Clearing stress does nothing for the lack of mods after doing a barrel roll. And clearing stress more easily is great, but is still nothing compared to a current FAA yeing having its full dial open every round, AND can barrel roll every round (within Iran limitations). In 2e if you want to br every round you lose a ton of maneuverability and get no mods. That’s a huge difference.

6 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

The Y-wing can double tap out of the front arc, they mentioned it the team covenant game. Except tlt is gong so you’ll only get two atks.

6 hours ago, Houston8665 said:

They mentioned it but it was not in that game so we have no idea what the downside may be. As far as I can tell most things that allow multiple attacks got reworked in some way

^Veteran turret Gunner lets you perform an attack with your turret in your mobile firing arc, after firing your primary. So yes you can lock your mobile arc in front and treat it as a 1e BTL but it's not limited to just that.

6 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I am sure Fen Rau will be good, but then again I am predicting an Initiative 6 or Bust meta.

Apparently the scaling costs have a heavy Tax on aces, I imagine you're right in that people will try to do this, but I also think costings will prevent a lot of 'Ace High' lists from even being legal.

I doubt we'll get I 6 or bust

Late game is probably going to be dominated by very specific I 6 pilots, almost assuredly Vader and maybe Fel, but sharp limitations to reposition action-chaining and the b-roll change will make dodging far less easy mode

Only Fel can arc dodge sort of as before, while the force just seems super powerful as a mechanic even before Vader starts going crazy on your ***

19 minutes ago, BVRCH said:

...

Apparently the scaling costs have a heavy Tax on aces, I imagine you're right in that people will try to do this, but I also think costings will prevent a lot of 'Ace High' lists from even being legal.

That is really the make or break portion of that prediction and the entire meta. Depending on the squad point pricing I can see the meta ending one of two ways.

1. Initiative 6 Arc Dodgers and Initiative 6 Turrets with a 10 point (or more) underbid.
2. 8 (or more) ships Swarm lists with multiple Initiative 1 pilots for blocking.

But really it all depends on the point costing. It could even start with initiative 6 dominating, but increase the point cost by on on those Ace ships by 1 point and all of a sudden swarms are dominant in tournaments. Alternative it could end up in reverse order.

I don't mind if protectorates become worse. Compared to the Interceptor they had great value. Better dial, more health, and a way to be crazy dangerous knifefighters.

They were power creep.

Now, with limited mobility (probably not having the option of both boost barrel roll and barrel roll boost, just one) their increased offensive capabilities will be balanced by limited movement.

They can probably still one shot interceptors, if they manage to get in their face, especially since they can't token stack anymore (except Soontir maybe) but they will have a hard time doing so. (And the reverse requires almost impossible, with more health on the fang and no native lock on the tie)

So... Yeah, they get more specialized... Like every other ship in the game.

Protectorates were not power creep over interceptors. Only the aces were played for either ship. Interceptors were more defendivenwith token stacking. Especially with soontir being able to double reposition and still get a focus. Plus palp on the table usually. Fangs are more offensive. Fenn can hit like a truck like range 1, but dies way easier than soontir

45 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

That is really the make or break portion of that prediction and the entire meta. Depending on the squad point pricing I can see the meta ending one of two ways.

1. Initiative 6 Arc Dodgers and Initiative 6 Turrets with a 10 point (or more) underbid.
2. 8 (or more) ships Swarm lists with multiple Initiative 1 pilots for blocking.

But really it all depends on the point costing. It could even start with initiative 6 dominating, but increase the point cost by on on those Ace ships by 1 point and all of a sudden swarms are dominant in tournaments. Alternative it could end up in reverse order.

I'm hoping the measures they've taken to make point fortressing harder will prevent those massive bids, but yes you're right it could happen. I feel their making a real effort to make those middle ships worth taking.

The dream will be to see multiple initiative lists with 1 Ace and variety of other ships, we'll have to wait and see. That being said I'll be quite happy to see Imperial swarms again.

51 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Protectorates were not power creep over interceptors. Only the aces were played for either ship. Interceptors were more defendivenwith token stacking. Especially with soontir being able to double reposition and still get a focus. Plus palp on the table usually. Fangs are more offensive. Fenn can hit like a truck like range 1, but dies way easier than soontir

Palp is not a part of the interceptor... That's like counting Manaroo as part of the Fang fighter.

17 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

I don't mind if protectorates become worse. Compared to the Interceptor they had great value. Better dial, more health, and a way to be crazy dangerous knifefighters.

They were power creep.

Now, with limited mobility (probably not having the option of both boost barrel roll and barrel roll boost, just one) their increased offensive capabilities will be balanced by limited movement.

They can probably still one shot interceptors, if they manage to get in their face, especially since they can't token stack anymore (except Soontir maybe) but they will have a hard time doing so. (And the reverse requires almost impossible, with more health on the fang and no native lock on the tie)

So... Yeah, they get more specialized... Like every other ship in the game.

They can either boost or barrel roll after a focus, but cannot chain boosts and barrel rolls together in the manner of an Interceptor.

So they're less wriggly, and rely much more on the "Single reposition and then take a focused shot" side; one imagines in the modifier-light new world, Fearlessness and their psuedotitle will be extra relevant.

Kind of interesting that taking away easy modifiers will make the ones you can get all the more valuable...

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Palp is not a part of the interceptor... That's like counting Manaroo as part of the Fang fighter.

Maybe if interceptors were ever run without palp after he released...

And even without palp the interceptor is more defensive than the fang fighter.

6 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Maybe if interceptors were ever run without palp after he released...

And even without palp the interceptor is more defensive than the fang fighter.

But the fang moves better, hits harder and is cheaper...

And it doesn't matter... Palp is 29 extra points. It's not part of the discussion.

The reason why interceptors are never run without palp, is because they are useless without him.

How does it move better? And it’s 1 point cheaper. Yes, it does hit better, as I pointed out. But it does far easier as well

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

How does it move better? And it’s 1 point cheaper. Yes, it does hit better, as I pointed out. But it does far easier as well

Talons?

32 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Talons?

Not used very often if you’re running PTL. ANd if you aren’t, you lose out on double repositioning

42 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Talons?

I would go so far as to say that for the Fang and Interceptor default builds (PTL), the Interceptor has the superior dial. It’s got one more green maneuver in its four straight. That’s a nice advantage for when you need to bug out of an engagement. As a frequent Fang Fenn flyer, I would prefer the Interceptor dial probably 90% of the time.

5 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

I would go so far as to say that for the Fang and Interceptor default builds (PTL), the Interceptor has the superior dial. It’s got one more green maneuver in its four straight. That’s a nice advantage for when you need to bug out of an engagement. As a frequent Fang Fenn flyer, I would prefer the Interceptor dial probably 90% of the time.

Think of it like this:

Would you like soontir in a fangfighter or soontir in an interceptor?

Then would you take Fenn in an Interceptor or fangfighter?

I normally run AT+TC soontir instead of stealth device, so I likes the target lock and I like 1 extra health. The title is also nice.

Also, I should add that if you are looking at double reposition play,the evade action does not help at all.

18 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Think of it like this:

Would you like soontir in a fangfighter or soontir in an interceptor?

Then would you take Fenn in an Interceptor or fangfighter?

I normally run AT+TC soontir instead of stealth device, so I likes the target lock and I like 1 extra health. The title is also nice.

Also, I should add that if you are looking at double reposition play,the evade action does not help at all.

There is a bit of a problem with your questions. While I would answer "Fang" for them, it is not for the underlying reason I think you are looking for. I would choose a Fang because it's greater focus on offense fits my play style better, it's in a faction I tend to play more, and it is Mandalorian. It's not because I think the Fang is a better ship. A properly kitted and flow Interceptor (Fel in particular) is a survivor. Fangs have more of a timer to them. They also have the "range two deadzone" that the Interceptor doesn't fear as much.

I have witnessed plenty of double reposition play and it doesn't happen every turn. There are plenty of situations where repositioning isn't an option for a variety of reasons. When that happens, you have to turtle up. And that is way easier with an evade action on your bar. Saying that the evade doesn't help at all is a bit baffling as it is a safety net for when arc dodging fails you.

31 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Also, I should add that if you are looking at double reposition play,the evade action does not help at all.

It absolutely does, because eventually you'll get into a position where you can't avoid getting shot, and being able to token stack double focus + evade on soontir is huge.

3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

There is a bit of a problem with your questions. While I would answer "Fang" for them, it is not for the underlying reason I think you are looking for. I would choose a Fang because it's greater focus on offense fits my play style better, it's in a faction I tend to play more, and it is Mandalorian. It's not because I think the Fang is a better ship. A properly kitted and flow Interceptor (Fel in particular) is a survivor. Fangs have more of a timer to them. They also have the "range two deadzone" that the Interceptor doesn't fear as much.

I have witnessed plenty of double reposition play and it doesn't happen every turn. There are plenty of situations where repositioning isn't an option for a variety of reasons. When that happens, you have to turtle up. And that is way easier with an evade action on your bar. Saying that the evade doesn't help at all is a bit baffling as it is a safety net for when arc dodging fails you.

The only situation where range 2 matters, is when Fel has focus evade, while Fenn has only focus. (And let's say target lock)

Even in this case, Fel will take 1 less damage, while Fenn has +1 health

On the other hand, I've had Soontir one shotted by Fenn several times.

Yeah, soontir will survive a bit longer, but Fenn will take out more points from the enemy team, and faster.

If one of my ships is getting blown out of the sky before it gets to attack, Fenn already paid for himself usually.

Also, mindlink allows for some crazy ps 9 shenanigans.

And a talon roll can easily throw a wrench in Soontir's plans. When you are throwing 5 dice and a hit, you don't always need mods to destroy 3 hull.