Ships with same dial:
Imperial
Scum
Rebel
RAW, 0. None of the old dials are legal in the new game.
Quite a few dials are unchanged though, specifically, so far, the Fang, the Lambda, the Gunboat, the TIE/LN - I think that's it until we see the Res/FO stuff.
On 5/13/2018 at 6:20 AM, Wedge Nantillais said:Saldy TIE Fighters are less maneuverables than T-65s now. ?
Well T-65s still don’t have speed one turns or speed 5 anything.
1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:RAW, 0. None of the old dials are legal in the new game.
That is just silly! Is the FFG police going to kick down the doors of gaming clubs and arrest the lot? No.
The ones that are not changed will be okay to use if players want to use them. They will probably not let you use them for official FFG tournaments.
3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:Well T-65s still don’t have speed one turns or speed 5 anything.
And TIE Fighters don't have speed one banks and straight, so...
Maneuverability in this game is represented with followings caracteristics
:
- number of maneuvers : T-65 > TIE (17 -16) ;
- number of blue maneuvers : T-65 > TIE (6-4) ;
- number of loopings : T-65 > TIE (3-2) ;
- number of reposition actions : T-65 > TIE (1.5-1) ;
- number of chained reposition actions : T-65 > TIE (1.5-0).
Worse still, with only 4 blue maneuvers, TIE Fighters are at the same level as the less maneuverables ships like Y-Wings or Lambda Stuttles. Even B-Wings have more now...
Edited by Wedge NantillaisOn 5/13/2018 at 6:38 AM, Hobojebus said:That's fine if they are cheaper, if you want a more manuverable ship there's interceptors and strikers and defender etc.
The x-wing has been garbage for years even with several attempts to buff it, it's the games namesake it should be good.
The tie is cheap and reliable and has numbers on its side.
Sorry, I can't agree with this. A TIE Fighter is more maneuverable than an X-Wing and the game should reflect this. The whole point of this being a Star Wars game is that the ships follow Star Wars way of things. If they start messing with this, then it's just a space game that happens to have Star Wars figurines. I expect a game that both follows the way Star Wars ships are relative with one another while at the same time point costs balance things out. There could be minor compromises in the name of balance but nothing major.
The ships should be designed to follow how their are in the Star Wars world. Point costs then are given relative to their strengths and performances to balance all out. The primary goal is then to have a Star Wars that feels like a Star Wars ship.
If they go the other way around (i.e. design a ship so that it fulfills a game design goal, then slap a Star Wars figurine to it) then the Star Wars feel is gone. We might have a more balanced game, but it won't be Star Wars anymore.
I was very excited about 2e, even pre-ordered conversion kits. The more I read, the more disappointed I become. Turns out the kits won't have all the cards included in the wave 1 expansion sets and now stuff like this. Plus everyone seems to be questioning how balanced 2e is going to be, which was supposed to be its main attraction. I am now on the fence whether to cancel my pre-order. It's not about money, its about getting the game I want to play and so far it seems 2e is straying away from this goal.
Edited by OoALEJOoOOn 5/13/2018 at 5:20 AM, Wedge Nantillais said:Saldy TIE Fighters are mess maneuverables than T-65s now. ?
Ironically, if you look at the original WEG RPG standard TIE fighters ARE less maneuverable than T-65s (TIE fighters had 2D maneuverability in D6, the X-wing had 3D). This seems to be supported by the RotJ performance charts: the X-wing, TIE, and Y-wing were all listed at the same speed -- 100 MGLT -- while the maneuverability appeared to be listed in descending order: X-wing > TIE fighter > Y-wing.
It wasn't until the X-Wing PC game that the TIE became more maneuverable.
The Y-wing's speed has been getting short-changed for YEARS.
Another fun bit of trivia:
If you want to know how fast a ship in the old D6 would be according to this chart, multiply the ship's "SPACE" speed * 12.5 and for MOST of the Trilogy ships you'll get an accurate conversion. For example:
A-Wing: 12 Space * 12.5 = 150 MGLT
T-65B and TIE Starfighter: 8 Space * 12.5 = 100 MGLT
B-wing: 6 Space * 12.5 = 75 MGLT
The outliers are the Y-wing, which was made too slow, (7 Space +12.5 = 87.5 MGLT) and the TIE Interceptor, which is too fast (11 Space * 12.5 = 137.5 MGLT).
So the E-wing (11 Space) would be 137.5 MGLT
The T-65C A2 and TIE/ln are actually slightly faster than the Trilogy ships, both at 125 MGLT (the speed the Interceptor SHOULD be). The TIE Avenger/Defender are pretty overdone, though. The TIE/D would clock in around 200 MGLT (16 Space)!
Interesting post Ambaryerno, thanks for sharing!
I would consider the X-Wing PC game the standard, not the movies. It was made by LucasArts, and maybe it was one of the first times where a lot of thought was placed on how all these ships behave relative with one another in a more dynamic space combat setting. The basic traits for each ship, their roles, stats, etc were ironed out here and in my mind quite successfully. The movies didn't do this and didn't have to think about any of this. The games also had more popular acceptance and are well known within the fan base (at my age group! :)) Thus, at least in my mind, the PC "simulation" games are the standard to follow.
I'll give them that, I do come from a X-Wing PC game background, and my expectations are shaped by this.
2 hours ago, RayGuns said:That is just silly! Is the FFG police going to kick down the doors of gaming clubs and arrest the lot? No.
The ones that are not changed will be okay to use if players want to use them. They will probably not let you use them for official FFG tournaments.
No they are not OK if the player wants to, they are OK if your opponent lets you.
Some people are colour blind, if they want you using the new dials you better have them ready to go.
2 hours ago, Wedge Nantillais said:And TIE Fighters don't have speed one banks and straight, so...
Maneuverability in this game is represented with followings caracteristics :
- number of maneuvers : T-65 > TIE (17 -16) ;
- number of blue maneuvers : T-65 > TIE (6-4) ;
- number of loopings : T-65 > TIE (3-2) ;
- number of reposition actions : T-65 > TIE (1.5-1) ;
- number of chained reposition actions : T-65 > TIE (1.5-0).Worse still, with only 4 blue maneuvers, TIE Fighters are at the same level as the less maneuverables ships like Y-Wings or Lambda Stuttles. Even B-Wings have more now...
Well, hopefully TIE Mk2 engines are a thing.
I would say the one speed turns are more important than those one straight/banks, from a ‘knife fighting’ perspective. And for keeping ships in formation. If the 2.0 TIE costs more than 24 pts then I would agree that it needs a better dial, more actions/linked actions, etc. I’m actually hoping for 23 pts just to have room for super cheap upgrades. And we have to remember that the X-wing is way more expensive, and always has been, yet has been far behind even the humble TIE Fighter since the beginning. Extra hull, better dial, more actions, the T-65 needs all this just to pull even to the same ship from wave one back in 2012. That is crazy.
What I'm thinking about doing for casual play is, I'll print out the new dial and paste over the old dial, or any of the unused dials that come in the conversion, for a couple ships that are not covered by the kit.
Shouldn't need too many in my case, either; maybe only a single B-Wing if the escort small ships are covered in a future Epic conversion kit.