Waiqar Booster Requests!

By Maktorius, in Runewars Miniatures Game

As an acolyte of Waiqar, I want to share my wet dreams with my fellow [un]dead of what I believe is needed and wish will come!

I would very much appreciate any ideas, feedback on balance or issues :) (and don't forget to like the ones you think are good!)

I will update the cards if I get feedback. And I will try to get the pitch to FFG if I can when the cards starts to feel finished.

So lets see if this falls totally flat or not :D

Edited by Maktorius

This tome was written and compiled in ancient times by acolytes of necromancy, searching for ways to stop death with magic. But it became greater still, and in the hands of a powerful soul without fear of the void, it can reverse the order of the world, turn death to life and order into chaos.

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I've read, heard and participated at length in discussions regarding the (current) Waiqar heroes. They are both very cool thematically with rich flavour and interesting abilities, but they just fall short in power, mainly due to their squishyness.

Ankaur has to take wounds to activate as his main role of skeleton musterer, thus severely crippling his effectiveness and survivability. This means that even if he is safe, he can't raise skeletons every turn since he has to shoot at an enemy to be able to heal those wounds, which in turn isn't that easy due to his lack of rerolls. The skeleton mustering looks very powerful on paper, but note that the value of a tray is in large part determined on the number of turns it actully does something on the battlefield, i.e. a tray raised turn 5 is likely to contribute half as much to the game as a tray deployed from the beginning.

Original Value Calculation, Ankaur being priced at 40p.

  • The probability of Stable runes are 1,5 per turn
  • Ankaur is probably able to heal 1,5 wounds per attack due to the 50% probability of 2 Unstable runes and if he dials in the surge
  • Let's assume that the value of a tray is 8p due to most trays being mustered to the rebated rank 2-4 and a mix of Reanimates and archers
  • This assumes perfect positioning so that Ankaur can shoot without being shot at!

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Let's say that he also deals some damage and does something else, the value is 40 , just as he is. BUT NOTE THE 4TH BULLET!

There is no room for error, and it is very hard to achieve him shooting without being shot at, especially since his attack is at initiative 6, i.e. AFTER most other ranged units!

Calculation with the Twilight Grimoar, Ankaur being priced at 46.

  • This STILL assumes perfect positioning so that Ankaur can shoot without being shot at!

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Since Ankaur is not doing anything alse than mustering, we now have a 5p (51-46) room for error.

The Rune Manipulation

Also, the Waiqar faction completely lacks any rune manipulation, which they need for necromancy, regeneration, Ankaur's attack and defence against the other factions rune-dependent abilities. This effect is valuable and increases the value further. Grayhaven channeler recast 2 runes for 6p, so lets value this effect at 3. Now we are up to a 8p (5+3) room for non-perfect deployment and positioning during the match, and the possibility that someone actually tries to attack Ankaur, which I consider VERY plausible. In my book, this is very fair!

Summary
So the Twilight Grimoire increases his mustering ability to a more competetive level. His unique upgrades are still interesting since he probably will be under fire and need healing (Regenerative magic), and it is valuable if he has the flexibility to go into an aggressive role if necessary (Violent forces).

Update 2018-05-14

-Changed the name from The Necronomicon to place it within Terrinoth. (Thanks to Xelto)

-Made it unique to Ankaur Maro to future proof from coming releases. (Thanks to Xelto)

-Increased the cost to 6. Ankaur needs a large bump up in power due to his staggering cost. (Thanks to Quickwhit, Budgernaut & Xelto)

-Reworded the second part of the card to eliminate the need to keep track on whether a wound had been recieved that round. With the current wording, if there is no wound token on the card, the one you are about to get is the first one. (Thanks to Budgernaut)

Update 2018-05-16

-Rewrote the motivation behind the design with a more objective perspective.

Edited by Maktorius

In the cesspools of the dark lands, the most vile Carrion Worms, called Defilers, are handpicked and trained by torture to violently spray any foe accurately with foaming acid.

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The Lancers' picky blight ability (only at range and at unengaged targets) is weird to me. Being able to blight even in melee at initiative 6 hardly feels overpowered as most units has melee attacks at lower initiative,
and the Lancer can't attack while blighting as the actions are on the same dial. I guess there is a disgn-fear that a swarm of Lancers could lock enemies down, but that would be both a gamble in timing and would tie up 2-4 1x1 Lancers (that can't deal damage)! Comparing Lancers with Spined threshers and Scions does not make this weird nerf look justified in my eyes.

The Reanimates' damage output and regeneration ability is simply just not enough to withstand the beating they are exposed to. Even Lingering Dead and Necromancer often falls short.
The single blight provided by the BVB or that was spat by the support Lancer does not do much in protection either, but with reoccuring blight we are talking serious tar-pitting, which is the Reanimates game!

Edited by Maktorius

After countless wars, Ardus Ix'Erebus counted the demons of Uthuk Y'llan as the fiercest foes.
To seize control of the battlefield, he sends his most relentless captains to spearhead attacks against the frenzied fiends.
Donning armour consecrated in the blood of innocents, unencumbered by pain, fatigue and fear, unmatched by lesser undead, the Demon Slayer leads the charge.

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The Death Knights are hero-hunters... except against the strongest hero in the game. Ravos can kill a whole tray per turn of the most expensive cavalry in the game simply by rolling 1 surge on 3 dice, and he is the first to attack as well with his lower initiative. And the Death Knights otherwise powerful dial-in Mortal Strike is less effective due to the low armour-high hitpoints of him. The low armour also goes for the other Uthuk units, so there can't have been a balancing reason to why not at least one of Ravos's two direct wound abilities weren't worded as Mortal strikes or damage, which Death Knights have some protection against. It would be nice in tournaments, where you can't change your list, if this really expensive cavalry could be expected to do some good work against any faction.

So this card's primary function is to make Death Knights a less suboptimal choice against Uthuk. The wording is maybe not 100% clear, but I chose to keep it as clear as possible with the fewest words. But just to be clear, it's intent is only to mitigate the end of round "bite" wound from Ravos, which opens up the strategy to try to corner him with the Death Knights so that he "eats himself" (sorry ;) since that is the only instance that I know of where direct wounds (i.e. non-damage non-mortal strike) are given to a specific target. Ravos other wound is splash, so I does not protect against that. I think this is thematic, as they might be hit by a giant scythe, but no one munches on a Death Knight.

The name is pretty self explanatory since it describes the purpouse of the card. As I motivated above, I feel that its primary effect should have been in the game from the start, and therefore I only price the Steadfast abilities, which I value at 2.

2018-05-16

-Changed the name of the card from The four horsemen of the apocalypse to put it within Terrinoth (Thanks to Xelto)

-Rewrote the motivation to the card

-Reworded the main ability of the card, to make it clearer which wound it was adressing (Thanks to Xelto although he might not be totally happy with this one either ;)

-Changed the second ability to Steadfast. The original version gave immunity to both Boons and Banes, but as Xelto adviced, the number of ways open to adress a unit should not be too limited. Panic should be somewhat useful, and immobilize, stund and blight as well since they are so good in duels.

Edited by Maktorius

Their hate is undying, and their wrath is relentless.

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The Wraiths have a superb mobility, but with the lack of rerolls at their 3-threat configuration, and attack initiatives later than the enemy (resulting in lost trays and therefore threat when their attack is due) they will be hard pressed to actually do much damage.
But if they at least could land one or two of their double attacks, even perhaps against Ravos with the right timing, they can't be ignored.

Edited by Maktorius

When Waiqar's oath before Meringyr shattered his host, remaking them into the Deathborn Legion, Ardus Ix'Erebus was beside him. Since that day, he has been one of the Mistland's most renowned generals. His harsh, unyielding command style blended seamlessly with Waiqar's newfound, anger-fueled penchant for destruction. And when his gold-clad horn echoed over the battlefield, the animates of the legion instantly reacted as if one with him.

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Just like Ankaur, Ardus' brings a lot of theme and possibilities to the table. But he is soft, slow and according to the forum his Host of Crows army building ability is mostly fluff (so far). I could not find a great way to remedy his softness, as adding Cover or other defences probably puts him in Hawthorne land. And I considered making him more shifty, but that feels Latari, and above that he is an infantry man that should be slower (hear that Ravos?). So I finally (so far) settled on making his theme play out even more as a great commander! Also, one issue with Waiqar is that they are (generally, although there are exceptions) predictably slow, the enemy can securely consider a bunch of tricks which will all go off before the skeletons do anything.

So this upgrade is a version of Dispatch runner, but instead of giving the ally a second attack, it forfeits Ardus turn (except for the possible armour or rally) to surprise the enemy by triggering an action at initiative 2! Mind games are therefore back in Waiqars toolbox. I know this looks very powerful at first glance, but once again, it makes Ardus forfeit doing anything big, and it does not double the action of the ally. Though it will increase the battlefield value of Ardus since he can contribute without throwing his life away by running forward from the start. I put the speed limits on to not make it too weird, but hey, if Big Ravos can move 6 at initiative 4...

Edited by Maktorius

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The only difference from the original card is that the price is lowered from 23 to 18.

  • The Citadel Weapons Master at 8p adds a red dice but has no abilities and 1 less hitpoint compared to Ardus. I don't think it's rebated due to any balancing, since the Front Line Rune Golem can be put in the same build and give additional [Stable] rune threat (50% of threat 5 for this unit!). So I gather this is the baseline, and maybe its even priced slightly too high due to the mentioned Golem combo.
  • Kari at 18p has the same stats as Ardus (3 armour and 2 hitpoint) and a surge ability. She brings a blue dice, but with that surge ability, which is VERY powerful, a blue dice is not bad at all.
  • Aliana at 13p has the same stats as well, brings a white dice just as Ardus, but has a weaker effect (Impact 1).
  • Hawthorne at 22p also has the same stats and brings a white dice and I would say the most situational ability.
  • Ardus own ability relies on positioning (range 1-3 to borrow) and surges. The latter is the bigger issue I think since neither the red (12,5%) or white (33%) dice are prone to create surges. So I'd say that it is both situational and highly volatile.

I truly can't uncover an explanation to how Hawthornes white dice that increases hit probability with 12,5 percentage point, 1 extra hitpoint, and situational ability is valued at 14p (22-8 from the CTW). If we look at CTW vs Aliana where the difference is 5p, I would guess that the improved dice is 2p, the hitpoint 2 and the ability 1? Using the same method, and valueing his ability to 6, he would be priced as Kari, i.e. 18.

I would say the exact same for Ardus, i.e. 18. His ability is better on paper, but in a Reanimate star you are rerolling for hits, not surge effects. So the battlefield value of the ability is in practice very limited.

It's hard to argue that the 12 tray of Reanimates with him in it becomes too powerful and justifies the original price since both Daqan and Uthuk can make similar builds damage-wise at a lower cost. Finally I would make the case, based on the official tournament results, that infantrystars are not superior builds. They struggle with terrain, being outflanked, and objectives.

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The only difference to the original is that this does not limit the mustering to "another" unit.

Maybe the original limitation was due to fear that the unit would be hold back and grow to big? But an unengaged infantry unit wastes its actual battlefield value every turn. The most efficient way to beat infantry star lists is just to avoid the infantry stars. So I don't believe this justifies it.

And you can't use column tactics on Reanimates to build 4x2's since it's the 3x3 that gets that slot, or 3x2 with Ardus' Host of Crows. You can build a 4x2 RAArchers with column tactics, but you can't put Ankaur in that unit so this change does not change anything for that.

I believe this nerf has to go.

Edited by Maktorius

The masters of the dark arts may find use in cursing even the weakest, binding their hapless souls to items of war,

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The Reanimate archers with combat ingenuity is a real pleasure to play when the dice go your way. However when they don't, the house of cards falls apart quickly. You really have to be able to keep the blighting up to keep pushing in the trench warfare that is Waiqar's game. But since Rank Discipline takes the same slot as Combat ingenuity, you can only get good odds by paying the extra 14p for the second rank, which are points that the Waiqar really need to something more with. Note that the excellent Heavy crossbowmen 3x1 with Ranked Discipline and Tempered steel just costs 2p more than the 2x2 RAArchers WITHOUT Combat ingenuity. And though I can't prove it in numbers, the former is clearly more powerful on the battlefield in my experience, as the extra 4 bodies are not important, but the extra threat and surge ability (of TS) is.

So this Equipment improves your odds a bit for sustained blighting, or at least to avoid fizzling out, but at an reasonable price. Less effective than Ranked Discipline, but also cheaper.

But I can't decide which of these two versions that is best. The blank reroll feels more thematic (at least with the name of the upgrade), but the second one might be better even though it exhausts. Any thoughts?

Edited by Maktorius

Love this whole thread! It's neat seeing your ideas.

6 hours ago, Maktorius said:

"The grimoar of the dead, unholy and cursed. A throbbing tome of evil versed."

These manuscripts were written and compiled in ancient times by acolytes of necromancy, searching for ways to stop death with magic, and is now in the possession of the shadow council. It has the power to reverse the order of the world, turn life to death and death to life. Though somewhat wieldable by the strongest, it cannot be put to rest...
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I've read, heard and participated at length in discussions regarding the (current) Waiqar heroes. They are both very cool thematically with rich flavour and interesting abilities, but they just fall short in power, mainly due to their squishyness.
Ardus is slow and needs to engage to use his abilities, so he is limited in who and how to engage and is easily targeted and destroyed by ranged attacks/abilities, especially ranged surge abilities from some of the other heroes.
Ankaur has to take wounds to activate as his main role, thus severely crippling his effectiveness and survivability.
Also, the Waiqar faction completely lacks any rune manipulation, which they need for necromancy, regeneration and defence against the other factions rune-dependent abilities.
So the Necronomicon is the fix-all for these overarching issues. Admittedly it's priced very low for what it does, but otherwise it would not be an improvement!
Also note that neither Death Knights or Reanimates with Fallen Hero can take advantage of it, since they cannot hold wound tokens until end of round as they only have 1 health.

This artifact would be amazing for Maro. It probably would need to be more expensive though. I'd happily pay 6 points for it.

3 hours ago, QuickWhit said:

This artifact would be amazing for Maro. It probably would need to be more expensive though. I'd happily pay 6 points for it.

Note that its healing ability actually is a bit limited. If Ankaur would raise more than 1 tray he would still be wounded, and it won't heal wounds from previous rounds.

I would expect Ardus to heal in the vicinity of 2 wounds per game if equipped, and Ankaur perhaps 5-6 (all of which are self inflicted).

Also consider that Ravos is 40p, Ankaur is 40p and Ardus is 39 (with Ancient Technique). Wouldn't you say that there is a large power gap between Ravos and the Waiqar heroes, and adding the Necronomicon would be closing that gap, but not reverse it? I.e. the cost needs be "too" low.

Edited by Maktorius

I agree that the Necronomicon does not seem overpowered when compared to Ravos, especially if he had Viscera Goblet. Viscera Goblet is still a more reliable source of healing than Necronomicon because of the Necronomicon's clause about removing only one wound suffered in that round. Ardus could take 3 wounds in one round and would only ever be able to remove 1 of those.

Also, this becomes a bit of a record-keeping headache. You have to pay attention every round to whether Ardus suffered damage or not. There is no built-in way of tracking when damage was assigned.

The Necronomicon: Severely undercosted. Viscera Goblet, by comparison, only works when you defeat a unit, and costs 7. Other defensive cards run in the 5-8 range. I like the additional tweak of letting you recast runes from it. And I would probably change the name. While Necronomonicon has sort of leached from the Lovecraft mythos into the general things-that-scream-in-the-night mythos, it doesn't really fit Terrinoth.

Defiler: The fact that there are no limitations on it makes it incredibly powerful. Two of these, costing a mere 34 points total, can effectively shut down any 2-die infantry unit, no matter how large it is. Reanimate Archers at least have to spend 44 to get the same effect, and the archers are easier to snipe out of the way, since they don't have a 3 toughness.

4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse: If you want it to fit Terrinoth, the name has to go. The concept of not picking up either banes or boons is definitely intriguing, but I would have to play it out to give any opinions on the price. I'm less excited about "non-combat wounds". This absolutely requires your opponent to play a specific way; there is only one way to deal with these guys if you can't give them banes OR hit them by essentially all other effects—and hitting death knights with effects is one of the favored approaches to dealing with them. And while wanting people to face your death knights on the open field is what you want, it's not fun for your opponent. And I mean "not fun" in the "Is this game fun enough for me to show up at the next session?" sense.

That could probably use a bit of explanation. The challenge of a game like this—and what makes a it worth the time to play—is looking at an array of options that both you and your opponent have, the probabilities of how effective those options will be, and trying to determine the best course of action. Upgrades that limit how a unit can be dealt with are wonderful: it means that you can't expect your favorite tactics to always work, and you have to adapt. Upgrades that force you to deal with a unit in a specific way are just the opposite: you must use specific builds or tactics in order to survive. That takes the fun from the game.

Look at the problems you're having with Ravos. It's making the game far less fun for you, and this is despite there being multiple ways to deal with him (trying to force him to fight infantry, and dodging him, being the two I usually use).

"Non-combat wounds" also needs to be better defined. Does that include splash damage from Maegan? Damage they get when attacking something with Unnatural Growths? If you're wanting immunity to everything beyond the roll of dice and possibly the lethal and brutal keywords, then the price is definitely too low. If I understand what you're trying to do with this, you might want to reword it to, "cannot suffer wounds except from damage or mortal strikes".

Wrath: Comparing costs, Raven Tabards costs 2. Using it isn't optional, and only works on blue. Raven Pennon Bearer costs 5, is a figure upgrade, and works on any color.

Comparing this card with the other two, it's closer in effect to the Pennon Bearer. Both require activation, but the Pennon Bearer lets you delay as well as speed up, and works on any color. On the other hand, it can be sniped. And more importantly, it only moves your initiative by 1. The wraith 'attack on 6' was a balancing factor for being able to double attack. I would not price this at less than the Pennon Bearer (5), and probably put it at six or seven.

1 hour ago, Xelto said:

The    Necronomico  n: Severely undercosted. Viscera Goblet, by  comparison, only works when you defeat a unit, and costs 7.  

My intent is not to make this upgrade fairly costed in isolation. Its purpose is to make itself + a Waiqar hero fairly costed. So the comparis with Viscera goblet should include Ravos.

Consider  that Ravos is 40p, Ankaur is 40p and Ardus is 39 (with Ancient Technique). Wouldn't you say that there is a large power gap between Ravos and the Waiqar heroes  , and adding the Necronomicon (I'm open to naming suggestions) "on the cheap" would be closing that gap, but still not reverse it?

1 hour ago, Xelto said:

Defiler  : The fact that there are no limitations on it makes it  incredibly powerful. Two of these, costing a mere 34 points total, can effectively shut down any 2-die infantry unit, no  matter how large it is.   

Consider that those two would not be able to attack if they want to keep the number of blight token up, as both actions are on the same dial. Also, they are likely to have been attacked before they place blight due to the initiative 6 of the action. So is a 34 point pin down too powerful? Against a infantrystar I see what you mean, but against other unit configurations (MSU) or types (Cavalry) its effectiveness goes down. They spend all effort to put on blight, but the enemy still deals damage. And how good is an infantrystar against anything mobile, like the Latari faction? It could be on the chase a whole game and do nothing.

Does these arguments sway you? :)

17 minutes ago, Maktorius said:
Quote

The Necronomicon: Severely undercosted. Viscera Goblet, by comparison, only works when you defeat a unit, and costs 7.

My intent is not to make this upgrade fairly costed in isolation. Its purpose is to make itself + a Waiqar hero fairly costed. So the comparis with Viscera goblet should include Ravos.

I'm sure there will be future Waiqar units that can use artifacts, so any cost ought to take future possibilities into consideration.

Quote

Consider that those two would not be able to attack if they want to keep the number of blight token up, as both actions are on the same dial. Also, they are likely to have been attacked before they place blight due to the initiative 6 of the action. So is a 34 point pin down too powerful? Against a infantrystar I see what you mean, but against other unit configurations (MSU) or types (Cavalry) its effectiveness goes down.

The defiler was the one that I had the least issues with, as Reanimate Archers can do essentially the same thing. They cost a bit more, can do damage as well as blight, but are easier to smash (8 total damage vs 3 sets of 3 damage) and can only effect units in their front firing arc. I would just up the price of the Defiler by 2-3 and I think it would work fine.

11 hours ago, Maktorius said:

Note that its healing ability actually is a bit limited. If Ankaur would raise more than 1 tray he would still be wounded, and it won't heal wounds from previous rounds.

I would expect Ardus to heal in the vicinity of 2 wounds per game if equipped, and Ankaur perhaps 5-6 (all of which are self inflicted).

Also consider that Ravos is 40p, Ankaur is 40p and Ardus is 39 (with Ancient Technique). Wouldn't you say that there is a large power gap between Ravos and the Waiqar heroes, and adding the Necronomicon would be closing that gap, but not reverse it? I.e. the cost needs be "too" low.

Yeah, I see that it will not allow him to burst heal the way regenerative magic can. But sustained over time healing is still very good, especially when combined with rune manipulation. I have been experimenting a lot with running naked Maro. My theory is that you can essentially build smaller RA units and bolster them with maro. If you can get two 2x1's to 2x2's before the fighting starts, it's functionally the same as getting Maro for 12 points but starting with 4 wounds. From then on his job is to hang back and shoot anything that gets too close to the archers. It has worked for me but with some definite struggles:

1. You want a lot of stable runes early so you can get your archers bolstered. Games that have 1 stable for the first two rounds are a struggle. With this artifact you would be able to raise one tray in round one and cleanse the wound and re-flip the blue/green rune in round two increasing the possibility of getting two trays and keeping your wounds down going into round three. This leads to my next point...

2. Maegan is solo Maro's worst enemy. When you've been raising skellies for the first 2-3 rounds you are often down to a few wounds. That's when seeing 4 reds will make you sad. I've had Maegan spike for 4 surges and finish off a distant Maro more than once. This artifact would make that much harder to do as you could still raise for 3 rounds straight and likely have only 2 wounds on you.

3. Sometimes you really want to shoot and you can't. The red runes have both made Maro worth much more than his cost before, and screwed me when I really need them. There have been more than one round where I just really needed that mortal on the dial to finish off a wounded hero and the runes came up blank on reds. This upgrade makes that less likely to happen.

I think anything under 6 points is too cheap for this upgrade. Even at more than 6 points, this upgrade would make Maro way more viable and be an almost auto-include. That said... I want it...

21 hours ago, Xelto said:

The challenge of a game like this—and what makes a it worth the time to play—is looking at an array of options that both you and your opponent have, the probabilities of how effective those options will be, and trying to determine the best course of action. Upgrades that limit how a unit can be dealt with are wonderful: it means that you can't expect your favorite tactics to always work, and you have to adapt. Upgrades that force you to deal with a unit in a specific way are just the opposite: you must use specific builds or tactics in order to survive. That takes the fun from the game.  

Look at the problems you're having with Ravos. It's making the game far less fun for you, and this is despite there being multiple ways to deal with him (trying to force him to fight infantry, and dodging him, being the two I usually use).

Hmm.. having read this a second time I have to say that you make a really good point. Walking the thin line between limiting options and forcing options is a tough nut to crack. Thank you for this insight, I will really try to have that mindset!

I don't want this thread to be about Ravos, though admittedly he is one of the primary reasons for it coming to being, but I have to disagree with you that dodging Ravos is a plausible tactic. I mean a late Shift 2 + Reform, then charge at initiative 3, or the "standard" Move 4 + 2 with turn (with insatiable hunger), then attack at initiative 3? If you are not Latari, you are not dodging that greased up wrecking ball :)

4 hours ago, Maktorius said:

Hmm.. having read this a second time I have to say that you make a really good point. Walking the thin line between limiting options and forcing options is a tough nut to crack. Thank you for this insight, I will really try to have that mindset!

Well, having said that, I think that the first part of the card (the unit can't gain any boons or banes) is wonderful by itself. It fits the unit both thematically and gameplaywise. It just needs a proper Terrinoth-style title to make the fit complete.

Quote

I don't want this thread to be about Ravos, though admittedly he is one of the primary reasons for it coming to being, but I have to disagree with you that dodging Ravos is a plausible tactic. I mean a late Shift 2 + Reform, then charge at initiative 3, or the "standard" Move 4 + 2 with turn (with insatiable hunger), then attack at initiative 3? If you are not Latari, you are not dodging that greased up wrecking ball :)

And, yeah, that's where my own personal worldview colors things for me, as I play Latari. (Of course, the reason I play Latari is because I had troubles with how slow and clunky the Waiqar units were.)

Updated the Necronomicon thanks to the feedback from @Xelto , @Budgernaut and @QuickWhit .

Also added the Horn of the Legion upgrade :)

On 5/12/2018 at 4:51 PM, Maktorius said:

Now this is freaking brilliant. Both mechanically and thematically.

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I put the speed limits on to not make it too weird, but hey, if Big Ravos can move 6 at initiative 4...

I don't know if I would put the speed limits on it. I'm not sure they'll do all that much in the end. If you're too worried about it being overpowering, it might work better if you exhausted the ability to use it*, or gave the target unit a stun token after its activation. (After its activation, not during, so it can't have a charge cancelled with the token it just got.)

* Though Ardus's white rally modifier may make this approach problematic.

2 hours ago, Maktorius said:

Updated the Necronomicon thanks to the feedback from @Xelto , @Budgernaut and @QuickWhit .

Also added the Horn of the Legion upgrade :)

An elegant solution to tracking damage. Very clean!

A bunch of updates :)

-Rewrote the motivation for the Twilight Grimoire to make it less subjective (hopefully).

-New version of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (now Demon Slayer). Thanks @Xelto . Also rewrote the motivation.

-Added adjusted infantry upgrades for Ankaur and Ardus.

As mentioned in the initial post, I really appreciate ideas, feedback and if you put a like on the ones you think are "needed" and seems fine :)

Added "Haunting Arrows" upgrade (8th post in this thread).

As always, I'm happy to discuss the "design" and other ideas for what Waiqar needs :)

14 hours ago, Maktorius said:

Added "Haunting Arrows" upgrade (8th post in this thread).

As always, I'm happy to discuss the "design" and other ideas for what Waiqar needs :)

Here's a crazy twist on that idea.

"Haunting Arrows: [ranged attack] After the reroll dice step of combat, you may exhaust this card to cancel this attack and instead perform a ranged attack at range 1-3 of the original target. This new target does not need to be at range 1-5 of you nor in your line of sight."

The idea is they are shooting ghostly arrows with a mind of their own. They may miss the original target, but will seek out another. Definitely could be abused, and the range could be adjusted. I think its thematically similar to yours, but goes beyond just adding rerolls. The intent is that you can reroll your dice, but you are picking a different target that may not be your prime target. That's the drawback. However, someone could abuse this by attacking a unit they don't want to hit because they want to hit a unit that is too far away to target. That's not my intention, but I'd have to spend some time fixing it.

I like your idea, I just thought something more than rerolls could be fun.

18 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

"Haunting Arrows: [ranged attack] After the reroll dice step of combat, you may exhaust this card to cancel this attack and instead perform a ranged attack at range 1-3 of the original target. This new target does not need to be at range 1-5 of you nor in your line of sight."

The idea is they are shooting ghostly arrows with a mind of their own. They may miss the original target, but will seek out another...However, someone could abuse this by attacking a unit they don't want to hit because they want to hit a unit that is too far away to target. That's not my intention, but I'd have to spend some time fixing it.

That's just like Enchanted Arrows in BattleLore! Kind neat!