Hiya.

I'm intrigued by the concept of a bounty-hunter style character, who is armed with a multitude of pistols; as such, I'm trying to work out exactly how Full-Auto with two pistols works, but the rules are a bit contrary.

According to the rules:

1. Full-Auto burst action (page 239) says that you can fire two pistols, one in each hand, with this action. See Two Weapon Fighting, page 246.

2. Two weapon fighting, page 246, says that attacks made with the off-hand are at -20.

3. Two weapon fighting, page 246, says that if you attack you can use the Multiple Attacks action to attack with both weapons, but both are at -20.

Here's where I get confused:

1/2: Full-auto burst gives you +20 to hit, so are we effectively saying that any sort of BS penalty to the off-hand will be negated by this? Doesn't this make full-auto totally awesome, as you're +20 primary, +0 secondary?

1/3: is firing two autopistols on full-auto a "Full Auto Burst" action, or a "Multiple Attacks" action - and does this distinction make any difference to the -20 to hit with both weapons? It appears to me that firing both pistols gives you the -20 BS to each - which is why you're directed to two-weapon fighting page - but the RAW seems to imply that it's only the "Multiple Attacks" action that attracts the penalty, and that's not what you're doing (you're donig the "Full-Auto action").

2/3: Is the -20 off-hand penalty cumulative with the -20 penalty for firing both guns? So, if you're firing both weapons, is it -20 to each, or is it -20 primary, -40 off-hand?

I'm aware that Ambidextrous and Gunslinger will change the numbers involved, I'm just trying to get the rules sorted for now.

Basically, the character image I have in my head is sort of like a cross between the bald guy on page 110 and War Machine from Iron Man; but, I'm slightly concerned (or hopeful, depending upon my mood...) that getting forearm mounts for my guns, thus not needing to reload ever, totally abuses the Full Auto rules...

Cheers,

Wow, that is a lot of crunch in that question. Let me start by saying, you need to discuss this with your GM as his ruling is what really matters. No matter what any of us say, he is the GM for your game, please work with him to find the answer that is right for your group.

That out of the way, lets dive in and really answer the questions:

1/2: The -20 only to the off hand is if you are firing only one of the two weapons. So if you carry two auto pistols and each turn alternate between main hand and off hand firing full auto (effectively doubling the time till you need to reload) every other round when attacking with the off hand you would be at a +0 while attacking with the main hand is +20 (for full auto).

1/3: I would rule (I think sensibly) that the fact that you are making a Full Auto Attack does not negate the -20 for attacking with multiple weapons. Full auto with both weapons (requires the Two Weapon Fighting talent) would make both a +0 (as you mentioned, other talents can aid here).

2/3: No, I do not think the off hand penalty is cumulative with the multiple weapon penalty. The multiple weapon penalty states -20 with both hands, I would think if it was meant to be -20 and -40 they would state that clearly.

Lastly, the statement you close with infers that forearm mounts somehow affect ammo availability for a weapon. I'm left scratching my head on that one. not sure what you mean there, forearm mounts free up your hands, but have nothing to do with ammo.

jtwing said:

If you follow the explanation in the DH errata that attempted to clarify how combat talents like these worked together, however, you will see it states thusly:

"If you do not have the Two Weapon Wielder talent and you
wield two weapons at the same time, you can use a Full
Action to make a single attack with each weapon. However,
you suffer a –20 to the attack roll with the weapon in your
dominant hand and –40 with the weapon in your off hand."

The key there is the statement of not having the Two Weapon Wielder Talent. In my game (for what it is worth) if you don't have that talent you can't make multiple attacks even when dual wielding, as that seems pretty straight forward in the RT book. All of the above I wrote assuming Two Weapon Wielder talent in play.

Thanks very much for the answers.

The DH errata doesn't seen to really help matters, as it's directly contrary to the RT text; maybe it's been a rule change between the games? Unless they meant the Ambidextrous talent and typed in Two-Weapon Wielder in error?

Finally, the reason that forearm mounts help with ammo is that they free up your hands - hands that can be used to carry more guns. So, once you've exhausted the ammo in your forearm mounted weapons, you have more hand held weapons (whether of the same sort or not) to go through before you even need to consider reloading any of them.

So, I'm thinking two forearm mounted autopistols, two handheld bolt pistols (one to be replaced with a hand flamer at first opportunity) and an MIU Weapon-Interfaced infernus pistol on the shoulder.

The "Quick Draw" talent would negate this, but would also remove a material amount of "cool" from the character, I think!

Again - hanks for the help, guys.