3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I’m pretty sure the reason we don’t poke these holes in the other films is that they’re not explained in other films, they’re just aesthetic. In TLJ they’re plot, they’re dialogue, they’re exposition, and they’re bollocks.

There’s one exception that springs to mind though - the people watching a planet in a distant system get blown up in the sky in FA. WTAF?!

Some kind of... Hyperspace... thing... Event... Dude, I have no idea. That one's weird as ****.

Why the **** can the kid on Canto Bight see Holdo's go into hyperspace?

Like, no real explanation, but who cares?

I hope Solo is sooo full of nonsense like this It’s kinda a shame they already explained the parsecs issue...

10 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

I hope Solo is sooo full of nonsense like this It’s kinda a shame they already explained the parsecs issue...

Not to my satisfaction. The easiest explanation was that Han was full of poodoo and didn’t know a parsec from his @$$.

33 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Some kind of... Hyperspace... thing... Event... Dude, I have no idea. That one's weird as ****.

Why the **** can the kid on Canto Bight see Holdo's go into hyperspace?

Like, no real explanation, but who cares?

TFA stated that Starkiller fired a ‘hyper-light speed’ weapon...so yeah, I’ll just assume it allows instantaneous travel of photons emitted by the energy beam so anyone in the galaxy could see it within line of sight. Whatever. Easier to justify than Old Spock seeing Vulcan implode.

i don’t think the kid at the end of TLJ was seeing Holdo’s jump, I think it was the Falcon, or some other ship that happened to be in orbit around Canto Bight. Or whatever.

On 5/11/2018 at 10:17 PM, CoffeeMinion said:

Eh, people like to gloss over the silly aspects of all the movies except R1, but they're there to varying degrees. Maybe it's that R1 was a tough act to follow, having finally given people the non-silly Star Wars movie they always wanted.

Embrace the silly side! Over-seriousness clearly leads to hatred, which leads to the Dark Side! ?

R1 is good for about 45 minutes, but otherwise it’s got a lot of wooden performances. Battle of Scarrif 10/10. Everything else 7.5/10

5 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

If by decades of lore, you mean nine other films, a handful of games and a few books and two TV shows, then yes

I'm guessing we are just going to assume that the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s just don't count anymore, and even if you want to say well Legends is gone I would like to point out that a great many of the concepts and other ideas that had been built up over the years have stuck to some degree in the new canon. Even Rian Johnson tried to use legends, abet not the way force projection was used to my knowledge in legends, to explain away the Luke being on Crait thing.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Not to my satisfaction. The easiest explanation was that Han was full of poodoo and didn’t know a parsec from his @$$.

I think the script even makes mention of that fact, I mean just look at Obi-wan's face when the Han says it.

10 hours ago, RampancyTW said:

To be honest, this just makes it even dumber to not send out the full compliment of fighters from the destroyers, then.

10 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Or have ships jump to be in front of them and blow through ships that have their shields completely angled away from them with crews so few they couldn't hope to man all the guns on them.

I mean...have you seen the FO? TLJ makes them look like the most incompetent A-holes out there.

They also state that in the movie. There was a short window of time the Resistance fleet was in fighter range which is why Kylo couldn't stay to finish the job. Do you have any idea how fast those capital ships are moving? Realistically even Kylo should'nt have been able to do what he did.

Beaides Kylo went on his own accord like Vader in Star Wars. Tarkin didn't use fighters at the Death Star 1 when he should've because guess what, the bad guys were actually winning the entire time.

The First Order strategy was to either follow the fleet if it hyper space jumped again or otherwise follow them as they slowly ran out of fuel one by one and destroy them.

A ship jumping in front of the Resistance would be uneccesary, and potentially impractical, you do realize space is three dimensional and the Resistance fleet could easily swerve to avoid the new ship.

The First Order is winning anyways and we've never seen a micro jump in Star Wars film, the only canon that matters when viewing a film.

Actually the whole chase was a sound military strategy by the First Order that worked until the Raddus hyperspace rammed them which is implied to be wholly unexpected by everyone.

4 hours ago, Schu81 said:

I have.

And I have explained that I am not the only one who feels like this, as the vast majority of user reviews at IMDB (written by the real customers, not the professional critics) represent my feelings about this "artwork" very well.

But I am happy for you, if you was actually able to love "The last Jedi". I wish I could love it, too. Would be so much easier.

Unfortunately I was shocked by the plot holes, the poor writing, the characters, the "your mama" jokes, the political agendas and a lot more.

It's great though that some people are able to be happy with anything "Star Wars" Disney is going to give them.

Why would they even try to come up with a great story, if people are going to buy stuff anyways?

Yep you and others exhaustively did that. Even by derailing threads that have nothing to do with TLJ.

In case you don't know, there is a thing called "review bomb". This does not truly express the feelings of the majority over a product - just that there are very angry people (often organized) trying to make a point. Sure, that can happen in the exactly opposing way (a "positive" review bomb), like with the Black Panther.

But what can I say? I'm not even a real customer.

4 hours ago, Schu81 said:

It's great though that some people are able to be happy with anything "Star Wars" Disney is going to give them.

Why would they even try to come up with a great story, if people are going to buy stuff anyways?

Now you are just diminishing the opinion and tastes of other people. Good to know that's your level of debate.

9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I'm not  a physicist or a mathematician, so it's not exactly m  y realm of expertise, but these ships are traveling post-lightspeed-travel at very likely beyond the speed of ligh  t to close such a distance so quickly. If not, they are very mu  ch   traveling at the high end of "Sublight speeds".   

18 seconds is enough time for light to make the round trip from the earth to the moon and back several times (roughly 5 iirc). Endor looks like it’s much larger than the half degree the Moon takes up in our sky. Sounds like that 4900 km is supposed to be the diameter of Endor? That would put it at around a degree or 1.5 degrees in the sky at the Earth-moon distance of approx 240,000 miles or 385,000 km (very sloppy math, round numbers). The DS2 was above Endor in an artificial stationary orbit possible through ubiquitous anti-grav technology.

So so we have a rough estimate of a possible upper limit of the average speed of the Rebel fleet: 385,000km/18s=Approx 21,400 km/s, pretty fast but not light speed, around 7% c or so. I’d say sublight speeds of 1 to 5% c are common when traveling inside star systems if accelerations of 100s of Gs are possible with the ships in question. Alot of the maneuvers seen in the films suggest accelerations of at least 10s of Gs. Higher sublight speeds are possible but usually not needed since hyperspace travel is incredibly accurate in placing ships within a few planetary radii of their destination.

10 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

1500m  /s fro  m 0m/s in und  er  ten seconds   

That’s only about 10 to 20 Gs acceleration, but my math is just estimates so don’t take my word as absolute. But 12 hrs at 20 Gs does not get you to ‘just under’ the speed of light. It does get you to around 25% or more, (again, sloppy math) so yeah Crait would pop up pretty quickly from an invisible dot to a huge disc. Of course the Transports would need to decelerate for 12 hrs at 20 g or for a few hours at higher deceleration if they want to ever land on the planet.

Anyway this is all a useless excercise since NONE of this math was used during the writing or filming of TLJ.

9 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Because people in star wars base everything on sight? That's now how space works. They have sensors and computers. It's not like a computer couldn't tell you that a planet (or, ya know, the sun it's orbiting) are withing 12 hours of you at sublight travel.

False . It's also used in the Tarkin novel by the empire.

Agreed, you don't jump out to a spot 12-18 hours at sublight speeds away from the planet you want to get to. Especially if you're then going to spend the next 18 hours making a beeline straight for said planet. Did they really think the empire wouldn't investigate the planet after they blew up the Raddis?

Did you watch the movie?

They were going to jump again.

The first jump was the panicked escape from Daqar and they were going to jump again.

Then the First Order showed up.

49 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

I'm guessing  we are just going to assume that the 80s, 90s, and e  arly 200  0s just don't co  unt anymo  re 

Ok, 76-79 is still ok! Classic Marvel Comics, the ANH novelization, SotME, the Holiday Special, the Wookiee storybook! It’s all canon again baby!!!!

oh, wait...nvm. That was all sarcastic wasn’t it.

4 minutes ago, Forresto said:

Did you watch the movie?

They were going to jump again.

The first jump was the panicked escape from Daqar and they were going to jump again.

Then the First Order showed up.

The first jump was basically a ‘way point’ in space that just happened to be near an old base. I assume that point was chosen because it was obscure to the FO but known to Leia and the old Rebel commanders. The next jump would probably have been to an actual (still secret) Resistence base.

5 hours ago, Schu81 said:

I have.

And I have explained that I am not the only one who feels like this, as the vast majority of user reviews at IMDB (written by the real customers, not the professional critics) represent my feelings about this "artwork" very well.

But I am happy for you, if you was actually able to love "The last Jedi". I wish I could love it, too. Would be so much easier.

Unfortunately I was shocked by the plot holes, the poor writing, the characters, the "your mama" jokes, the political agendas and a lot more.

It's great though that some people are able to be happy with anything "Star Wars" Disney is going to give them.

Why would they even try to come up with a great story, if people are going to buy stuff anyways?

You can feel free to dislike a movie without straight up making up things, you know.

Oh these forums are going to get ugly when Solo comes out and it won't matter how good or average the film is.

There has been a severe culture shift these past years and it's brought a lot of ugliness out at extremes.

3 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

You can feel free to dislike a movie without straight up making  up things, you know.   

You mean like... we should give "Solo" a chance, right? Alright, let's do that. I am with you.

On the other hand, you're saying we should not make up things.

Actually... isn't "making up things" what a good fanbase is all about?

I really like you guys trying to explain certain things in the plot. I truly love people, who are wondering about Reys parents. I appreciate reading about theories about Snoke and things like that. This shows that people do really care and that they love to go into this world of fantasy.

But on the other hand... TLJ has painfully showed me that it doesn't make sense to wonder about a lot of these things. The Mastermind with a plan, who actually tried to fill such theories, is long gone.

Now there are new people in command who care much more about selling toys and representing political agendas instead of brining a great story to the cinemas.

Selling toys is not a problem though... just like XWing for example. I love XWing. Its my favorite game and I buy almost all the ships multiple times.

But Disney should care about the storyline and their fanbase first, THEN sell even more toys.

Quote

Now there are new people in command who care much more about selling toys and representing political agendas instead of brining a great story to the cinemas.

When ever I read comments like this, I always assume you must be a new fan of Star Wars right ?

3 minutes ago, LeedsLad said:

When ever I read comments like this, I always assume you must be a new fan of Star Wars right ?  

Dude, you have got 5 posts so far ...

But just for your information. I have been a fan of Star Wars for almost 30 years now.

Just now, Schu81 said:

Dude, you have got 5 posts so far ...

But just for your information. I have been a fan of Star Wars for almost 30 years now.

Posts aside, did you then forget the politics in both the original trilogy and prequals, as well as Lucas selling rights to merchandise to anything and everything from toys, to lunch boxes, trading cards, cereal, bubblebath, etc etc.

Or was the forgoten, in the last 30 years ?

Dude... I am just saying that the original movies were awesome.... and they are probably the main reason why there is such a great fanbase of Star Wars all over the world. They were making money with Star Wars back then, but they are probably making more money nowadays. That's fine.

My point is... there are quite a few people who would have wanted a different TLJ movie for several reasons. But the producers seem to have different things in mind, which must have been more important than... the character of Luke (why did he even leave a map, if he doesn't want to be found), the character of Rey (her parents? Thought her origin would be a great mystery and part of the story), the almighty character of Snoke (who gets killed with a cheap trick seconds after telling he could not be betrayed by his scholar)

Why do you hate people for speaking the truth? Just because it's bad news? Because you have to face reality, noticing that this was not really such a good movie?

1 minute ago, Schu81 said:

Dude... I am just saying that the original movies were awesome.... and they are probably the main reason why there is such a great fanbase of Star Wars all over the world. They were making money with Star Wars back then, but they are probably making more money nowadays. That's fine.

My point is... there are quite a few people who would have wanted a different TLJ movie for several reasons. But the producers seem to have different things in mind, which must have been more important than... the character of Luke (why did he even leave a map, if he doesn't want to be found), the character of Rey (her parents? Thought her origin would be a great mystery and part of the story), the almighty character of Snoke (who gets killed with a cheap trick seconds after telling he could not be betrayed by his scholar)

Why do you hate people for speaking the truth? Just because it's bad news? Because you have to face reality, noticing that this was not really such a good movie?

Where do I say or imply I hate anyone for disliking TLJ ?

Because you were assuming I must be new to Star Wars, because of a qute you didn't like.

You're right, that's not exactly "hating" somebody. I was exaggerating here.

But I think you have very well understood me, haven't you? So why? Where am I being wrong here?

1 minute ago, Schu81 said:

Dude... I am just saying that the original movies were awesome.... and they are probably the main reason why there is such a great fanbase of Star Wars all over the world. They were making money with Star Wars back then, but they are probably making more money nowadays. That's fine.

My point is... there are quite a few people who would have wanted a different TLJ movie for several reasons. But the producers seem to have different things in mind, which must have been more important than... the character of Luke (why did he even leave a map, if he doesn't want to be found), the character of Rey (her parents? Thought her origin would be a great mystery and part of the story), the almighty character of Snoke (who gets killed with a cheap trick seconds after telling he could not be betrayed by his scholar)

Why do you hate people for speaking the truth? Just because it's bad news? Because you have to face reality, noticing that this was not really such a good movie?

Because we disagree with your “truth”. Your opinion on the movie is yours and you are well within your right to have them. But you are presenting that opinion as an indisputable fact. You do that, people with differing opinions tend to look poorly on it.

You also very clearly said that the people in charge of Star Wars now are more interested in murchandising than the previous owner, which is false. See the invention of Ewoks for that. If you can look past that to have fun with the original movies, why should those who enjoy TLJ be any different?

6 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

Because you were assuming I must be new to Star Wars, because of a qute you didn't like.

You're right, that's not exactly "hating" somebody. I was exaggerating here.

But I think you have very well understood me, haven't you? So why? Where am I being wrong here?

You can dislike a film as much as you like, all film is subjective if you dislike TLJ that's your perogative. However, using the line of Disney is politicising/selling toys of the new movies overlooks the fact Lucas did the same of the first 6 movies, yet this overlooked, its selective memory.

Hence I asked where you new to Star Wars. Like/Dislike the movie as much as you want but Lucas did the same.

Let me tell you one thing. I am not a fan of Star Wars, I play X-Wing thanks to great mechanic, good looking models and competitive scene.
But one thing is undeniable:
First two Star Wars films from 70's are objectively one of the greatest and most important works of art in cinema history - I watch those movies from time to time and their lasting power is undeniable. The imagination, visuals, talent and heart put in those films is astounding.
By comparison all other films from this cinematic universe are just plain bad - prequels are terrible movies, with stupid jokes, incoherent plot and merchandising focus, Disney's new movies are full of forced political correctness, dumb plot and lack of respect for established characters from old trilogy (look what they have done to Luke Skywalker), even ROTJD is terrible movie with stupid Ewoks and silly, cringe inducing scenes at the Jabba Palace. These days there is no heart and passion in Star Wars, only cynical excercise in merchandising.

10 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Because we disagree with your “truth”. Your opinion on the mo  vie is yours and you are well within your right to have them. But you are presenting that opinion as an indisputable fact. You do that, people with differing  opinions tend to look poorly on it.      

I agree with you. It's perfectly correct for every individual to have his/her opinion about certain things.

But what is a personal opinion based on? Did you actually enjoy the "your momma jokes" in TLJ? Didn't you actually go to the cinema, wanting to learn more about Reys parents? Didn't you wonder about the character of Snoke before TLJ came out?

I could come up with a lot of plot holes as facts, though, clearly showing that they represent "poor writing".

But the way some people are "discussing" here seems more like they would rather not want to hear anything about that.

20 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

Why do you hate people for speaking the truth? Just because it's bad news? Because you have to face reality, noticing that this was not really such a good movie?

Because it's NOT the truth!