17 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Instead I say why didn’t they all just jump away in smaller ships, since that’s apparently so easy.

No, don't you see they were tracking the Raddus, if the other ships jumped in random directions then....uh... *glances to Rian for answers*

Seriously there were so many issues with that, and from the dialogue last I remember the only one being tracked was the Raddus. The FO didn't jump their ships forward instead of trying to play the long game, and didn't call for reinforcements to just cut the Resistance off. The Resistance didn't use their low fuel ships as projectiles (since apparently that is a freaking thing) so that their situation would be more desperate and so that the captains of those ships would die. No one seemed to try and track any ships escaping from the Raddus aka the shuttle Rose and Finn took. And, NO ONE seemed to notice that there was a planet in the system that could be escaped to until it was pointed out to them despite the fact that the Resistance shuttles didn't exactly look like they were long distance craft.

But, don't you get it? Rian Johnson subverted all of our expectations! Who would have guessed a Star Wars film doing a plot about running out of gas as a major plot point!

31 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Who would have guessed a Star Wars film doing a plot about running out of gas as a major plot point!  

Hmmm. You know, George was writing the original SW during the first Energy Crisis in the 70s. Maybe they found an unpublished draft about the good guys running out of gas in a galaxy far far away.

9 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Hmmm. You know, George was writing the original SW during the first Energy Crisis in the 70s. Maybe they found an unpublished draft about the good guys running out of gas in a galaxy far far away.

Don't be silly, Bob Iger burned Lucas's ST drafts and story ideas to light his cigar.

7 hours ago, xanderf said:

Nevermind Han and Leia walking around on an asteroid in Empire Strikes Back with only breathing masks on. Lower pressure atmosphere? Sure. But definitely space is atmosphere in Star Wars .

They weren't on an asteroid. They were in the belly of a giant space slug.

1 minute ago, Frimmel said:

They weren't on an asteroid. They were in the belly of a giant space slug.

And everyone knows those contain breathable atmosphere!

Actually to be fair I think they had masks on, and presumably they had instruments inside the ship that told them it wasn’t a vacuum.

2 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Instead I say why didn’t they all just jump away in smaller ships, since that’s apparently so easy.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Presumedly the individual ships could be tracked through hyperspace but it seemed in the film that only the Radus was being tracked with all the other ships sticking around for no reason. I would think that if the fleet scattered to different jump points then at least some would make it. The plan was to give up the Radus after dropping the transports anyway, why not plan for all support ships to jump away and the Radus to jump after unloading the cloaked transports to be picked up later by surviving support ships.

Yah they could easily have jumped their 3 ships in 3 different directions and 2 of them get away totally free. Instead of being, ya know, destroyed.

20 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

And everyone knows those contain breathable atmosphere!

Actually to be fair I think they had masks on, and presumably they had instruments inside the ship that told them it wasn’t a vacuum.

Yeah, the point was the atmosphere was NOT breathable, hence the masks. However it was warm enough and dense enough that the crew could move about in ‘shirtsleeves’. I suppose Han has encountered planetoids with deep caverns that can hold a suitable atmosphere through outgassing. A similar situation exists on mars at the bottom of the Valles Marineris where the atmospheric pressure is assumed to be greater than in higher elevations. Even an object the size of the ‘Big One’ asteroid has a chance to capture and hold a very modest localized atmosphere in deep chasms, but it’s probably not super common.

at any rate it’s more than likely that the director wanted masks instead of combersome suits for budget reasons and the ability to identify the actors. Can’t really imagine Chewie in a space suit. Weird.

the oddest thing is how the Falcon made its way through three different star systems with a non working hyperdrive.

10 hours ago, Schu81 said:

I always feel like "How is this even possible?" when somebody calls himself a Star Wars fan AND likes the movie "The Last Jedi"

Why? Just have a look at the user reviews at IMDB. The whole movie and what it has done to legends like Luke Skywalker felt like an insult to a loyal fanbase that has lasted 40 years.

Talk for yourself buddy.

3 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Instead I say why didn’t they all just jump away in smaller ships, since that’s apparently so easy.

Probably don't have hyperdrive. Hence why they boarded the Raddus in the first place.

7 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yea, the thing with that is that it is sort of contradictory to Finn's lesson and what we see just before. Finn learns that there is a cause for him to fight and die for, a greater one than just Rey so he tries to act on that but is prevented from doing this and framing it as if he was doing the wrong thing when we just see Holdo do the same exact thing effectively 10 minutes ago and be treated in such a heroic fashion. Not to mention that Rose's little explanation sort of rings a bit hollow when a few seconds later instead of letting Finn do what he was going to do which might have helped the Resistance the battering ram destroys the shield door that would have helped protect the few remnants of the Resistance.

Except we don't see Finn charging in because he sees a cause to fight and die for. We see him charging in because he is angry and wants to make them hurt. Which, as the entire series of movies up to this point explains , is the way of the Dark Side.

3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

No, don't you see they were tracking the Raddus, if the other ships jumped in random directions then....uh... *glances to Rian for answers*

Seriously there were so many issues with that, and from the dialogue last I remember the only one being tracked was the Raddus. The FO didn't jump their ships forward instead of trying to play the long game, and didn't call for reinforcements to just cut the Resistance off. The Resistance didn't use their low fuel ships as projectiles (since apparently that is a freaking thing) so that their situation would be more desperate and so that the captains of those ships would die. No one seemed to try and track any ships escaping from the Raddus aka the shuttle Rose and Finn took. And, NO ONE seemed to notice that there was a planet in the system that could be escaped to until it was pointed out to them despite the fact that the Resistance shuttles didn't exactly look like they were long distance craft.

But, don't you get it? Rian Johnson subverted all of our expectations! Who would have guessed a Star Wars film doing a plot about running out of gas as a major plot point!

1: The shuttles didn't have hyperdrives. Like at all.
2: That is not how Hyperspace works.
3: Why would they? Using a ship as a hyperspace projectile isn't exactly standard procedure.
4: Okay, yeah, they didn't track the tiny shuttle that left The Raddus. Neither did they track the ones leaving it later either until they were told explicitly, "Hey, that's happening. "
5: They aren't long distance craft. Yeah, it's a little convenient they got to Crait in the first place, but let's really think about this.

Let's really think about this.

If Crait wasn't there to begin with, and they were burning fuel to stay just out of The Supremacy's range (something people seem to forget, somehow, despite it being said multiple times..?), then why is it now? This is where you fill on blanks.

"Oh, they're burning fuel and constantly accelerating to stay out of range? Wait, so doesn't that mean eventually they're gonna' end up going extremely fast?"

Exponential Acceleration.

Crait was there because they jumped to a nearby system and started to move extremely fast.

"Well then how did the fighters keep up?"

Not hard. They were launched at the same rate plus their thrust velocity. So let's say they're moving around 250,000,000m/s. Let's just say they're somewhere under but not far from the speed of light. Let's say that the TIE/SF and TIE Silencer have an acceleration rate capable of putting them at 1500m/s from 0m/s in under ten seconds (and they do.). During the chase, Kylo Ren and his wingmen can easily, with very little effort due to maintaining the momentum of their mothership because they were in it while it was accelerating , move at 250,001,500m/s. It's a tiny amount but thanks to Isaac Newton we can generally figure out how that'd work.

So for Crait to suddenly appear, they would have had to have been moving at or below the speed of light for how many hours was it? They accelerated for somewhere around twelve? Maybe more, maybe less?

Can you even imagine the sheer power and acceleration such engines that can move a 3500m long ship are capable of? Let me refer to you, a scene from Return of The Jedi.

I'm not a physicist or a mathematician, so it's not exactly my realm of expertise, but these ships are traveling post-lightspeed-travel at very likely beyond the speed of light to close such a distance so quickly. If not, they are very much traveling at the high end of "Sublight speeds".

So clearly, ships in Star Wars are very much used to traveling at such incredible speeds, and even better, they're used to decelerating at simply incredible rates. Where do I get that from? The Death Star is in a clean orbit around the forest moon of Endor. Now, if you really get how orbit works, then you know the Death Star is traveling at several thousand meters per second. Think about that! Really think about that speed..! And our starfighters are constantly stabilizing to the orbital rate of the Death Star during their assault. That's frakking incredible, and if you don't think so, I don't know what to tell you.

So why does any of that matter?

The Raddus traveling from post-lightspeed to Crait in a matter of <12hrs is less a less than trivial concern in the Star Wars Universe.

12 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

1: The shuttles didn't have hyperdrives. Like at all.
2: That is not how Hyperspace works.
3: Why would they? Using a ship as a hyperspace projectile isn't exactly standard procedure.
4: Okay, yeah, they didn't track the tiny shuttle that left The Raddus. Neither did they track the ones leaving it later either until they were told explicitly, "Hey, that's happening. "
5: They aren't long distance craft. Yeah, it's a little convenient they got to Crait in the first place, but let's really think about this.

Let's really think about this.

If Crait wasn't there to begin with, and they were burning fuel to stay just out of The Supremacy's range (something people seem to forget, somehow, despite it being said multiple times..?), then why is it now? This is where you fill on blanks.

"Oh, they're burning fuel and constantly accelerating to stay out of range? Wait, so doesn't that mean eventually they're gonna' end up going extremely fast?"

Exponential Acceleration.

Crait was there because they jumped to a nearby system and started to move extremely fast.

"Well then how did the fighters keep up?"

Not hard. They were launched at the same rate plus their thrust velocity. So let's say they're moving around 250,000,000m/s. Let's just say they're somewhere under but not far from the speed of light. Let's say that the TIE/SF and TIE Silencer have an acceleration rate capable of putting them at 1500m/s from 0m/s in under ten seconds (and they do.). During the chase, Kylo Ren and his wingmen can easily, with very little effort due to maintaining the momentum of their mothership because they were in it while it was accelerating , move at 250,001,500m/s. It's a tiny amount but thanks to Isaac Newton we can generally figure out how that'd work.

Not the shuttles, the Nuebulon C and the Ninka that were running out of fuel, why not just turn them around to ram the Supremacy instead of just floating back to be destroyed. The captains of those craft are so selfless to stay behind to die but not try to do a desperate maneuver to take out the threat to the rest of their group. According to this film hypderive does work with ships being super fast projectiles that or apparently Holdo is the first person in an entire galaxy of people for thousands of years to put two and two together and weaponize it. Future material is going to have to contend with this giant issue, be it that they create a very specific reason as to why it worked only this one time, completely ignore it, or have it as a legitimate tactic moving forward.

For a group that is trying to wipe out the only form of resistance that they have it would make sense to try and track everything they could about their targets to get rid of them. But, based of Hux and TLJ it seems the FO is REALLY incompetent so I'm willing to accept that they are so foolish they didn't even consider it.

I could comment on how convenient that it was that they just so happened to jump near a system (hours away or not) that used to be a base for them to escape to when they were just trying to quickly get away from the FO fleet at D'Qar. But since you brought up the matter of the fighters, how about the fact that the Supremacy only decided to launch a paltry 3 fighters which were able to get in and wipe out both the Resitance's fight support, wipe out one of the escort ships, and destroy the Raddus' bridge? And those same three fighters did all that and just turned right back around because reasons, and the FO didn't send more because the fighters would be out of the range of support of their own craft. When was the last time they seemed to care about their rank and file, and if THREE fighters could do all that then imagine how much the hundreds or thousands of their ships' compliment could do against 3 Resistance ships that would have to rely on point defenses to try and fend them off.

21 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

2: That is not how Hyperspace works.

If you're referring to his comment about the FO jumping their ships forward...yes it is. Microjumps are absolutely a thing, and are even canon, not just from legends. There's no reason the FO couldn't have microjumped forward to either catch up or get ahead of the resistance ships. They didn't even have to microjump all of their ships, just part of the fleet.

21 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

4: Okay, yeah, they didn't track the tiny shuttle that left The Raddus. Neither did they track the ones leaving it later either until they were told explicitly, "Hey, that's happening. "

They didn't track the others later because they were "cloaked" (not true invisibility, but apparnetly some kind of sensor cloaking)

21 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

5: They aren't long distance craft. Yeah, it's a little convenient they got to Crait in the first place, but let's really think about this.

Let's really think about this.

If Crait wasn't there to begin with, and they were burning fuel to stay just out of The Supremacy's range (something people seem to forget, somehow, despite it being said multiple times..?), then why is it now? This is where you fill on blanks.

"Oh, they're burning fuel and constantly accelerating to stay out of range? Wait, so doesn't that mean eventually they're gonna' end up going extremely fast?"

Exponential Acceleration.

Crait was there because they jumped to a nearby system and started to move extremely fast.

"Well then how did the fighters keep up?"

Not hard. They were launched at the same rate plus their thrust velocity. So let's say they're moving around 250,000,000m/s. Let's just say they're somewhere under but not far from the speed of light. Let's say that the TIE/SF and TIE Silencer have an acceleration rate capable of putting them at 1500m/s from 0m/s in under ten seconds (and they do.). During the chase, Kylo Ren and his wingmen can easily, with very little effort due to maintaining the momentum of their mothership because they were in it while it was accelerating , move at 250,001,500m/s. It's a tiny amount but thanks to Isaac Newton we can generally figure out how that'd work.

So for Crait to suddenly appear, they would have had to have been moving at or below the speed of light for how many hours was it? They accelerated for somewhere around twelve? Maybe more, maybe less?

Can you even imagine the sheer power and acceleration such engines that can move a 3500m long ship are capable of? Let me refer to you, a scene from Return of The Jedi.

I'm not a physicist or a mathematician, so it's not exactly my realm of expertise , but these ships are traveling post-lightspeed-travel at very likely beyond the speed of light to close such a distance so quickly. If not, they are very much traveling at the high end of "Sublight speeds".

So clearly, ships in Star Wars are very much used to traveling at such incredible speeds, and even better, they're used to decelerating at simply incredible rates. Where do I get that from? The Death Star is in a clean orbit around the forest moon of Endor. Now, if you really get how orbit works, then you know the Death Star is traveling at several thousand meters per second. Think about that! Really think about that speed..! And our starfighters are constantly stabilizing to the orbital rate of the Death Star during their assault. That's frakking incredible, and if you don't think so, I don't know what to tell you.

So why does any of that matter?

The Raddus traveling from post-lightspeed to Crait in a matter of <12hrs is less a less than trivial concern in the Star Wars Universe.

I think we can agree the ships in TLJ are moving at sublight speeds. It takes light from the sun over 5 hours just to get to pluto. There's no way they're getting from apparent deep space (middle of nowhere or however it was put in the movie) to a planet in the amount of time they had wihtout it being obvious you were in or near the solar system to begin with.

49 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

If you're referring to his comment about the FO jumping their ships forward...yes it is. Microjumps are absolutely a thing, and are even canon, not just from legends. There's no reason the FO couldn't have microjumped forward to either catch up or get ahead of the resistance ships. They didn't even have to microjump all of their ships, just part of the fleet.

They didn't track the others later because they were "cloaked" (not true invisibility, but apparnetly some kind of sensor cloaking)

I think we can agree the ships in TLJ are moving at sublight speeds. It takes light from the sun over 5 hours just to get to pluto. There's no way they're getting from apparent deep space (middle of nowhere or however it was put in the movie) to a planet in the amount of time they had wihtout it being obvious you were in or near the solar system to begin with.

Twelve hours.

D'ya know how big space is? You couldn't see crait that far away. You just literally could not.

As for Microjumps... We've seen it like, once in canon. And it was charted by a Jedi, no less. But really, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and say that given Microjumps are so obscure..? That such an ability was forgotten about. That just happens.

54 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Not the shuttles, the Nuebulon C and the Ninka that were running out of fuel, why not just turn them around to ram the Supremacy instead of just floating back to be destroyed. The captains of those craft are so selfless to stay behind to die but not try to do a desperate maneuver to take out the threat to the rest of their group. According to this film hypderive does work with ships being super fast projectiles that or apparently Holdo is the first person in an entire galaxy of people for thousands of years to put two and two together and weaponize it. Future material is going to have to contend with this giant issue, be it that they create a very specific reason as to why it worked only this one time, completely ignore it, or have it as a legitimate tactic moving forward.

For a group that is trying to wipe out the only form of resistance that they have it would make sense to try and track everything they could about their targets to get rid of them. But, based of Hux and TLJ it seems the FO is REALLY incompetent so I'm willing to accept that they are so foolish they didn't even consider it.

I could comment on how convenient that it was that they just so happened to jump near a system (hours away or not) that used to be a base for them to escape to when they were just trying to quickly get away from the FO fleet at D'Qar. But since you brought up the matter of the fighters, how about the fact that the Supremacy only decided to launch a paltry 3 fighters which were able to get in and wipe out both the Resitance's fight support, wipe out one of the escort ships, and destroy the Raddus' bridge? And those same three fighters did all that and just turned right back around because reasons, and the FO didn't send more because the fighters would be out of the range of support of their own craft. When was the last time they seemed to care about their rank and file, and if THREE fighters could do all that then imagine how much the hundreds or thousands of their ships' compliment could do against 3 Resistance ships that would have to rely on point defenses to try and fend them off.

Gonna' give you this one, I saw TLJ once so I don't personally know why exactly they didn't do more in the fighters, but I figure their objective was to eliminate the command staff and defense. Why not target the engines..? **** if I know.

Way to kinda' completely ignore how the sublight thing works though. Zero acknowledgement on how exactly they got to crait? (Like what, as if they wouldn't jump straight to a system that had a stronghold for them to go to anyway?)

5 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Gonna' give you this one, I saw TLJ once so I don't personally know why exactly they didn't do more in the fighters, but I figure their objective was to eliminate the command staff and defense. Why not target the engines..? **** if I know.

Way to kinda' completely ignore how the sublight thing works though. Zero acknowledgement on how exactly they got to crait? (Like what, as if they wouldn't jump straight to a system that had a stronghold for them to go to anyway?)

The obvious reason is PLOT, if the Raddus loses its engines or if the fighters wipe out the ships that kills the plot, but in universe it makes no sense.

Fine, lets address the sublight thing then, okay, sure the ships were going fast and could get there, but if they were jumping to a system with an old Rebel base why so far away from the base if their main prerogative is to escape, hide and regroup? Last time I checked most ships generally try to come out of hyperspace near a planet, and it wasn't like the Resistance knew that the FO was tracking them until they showed up right after them. And still, with them traveling how did the FO not go oh hey look there is a planet that the Resistance forces are angling for? If I remember correctly we don't really even see the planet until they are near on top of it, but I could be wrong there.

19 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

Tlj made 300 million less than Tfa that's not opinion it's objective fact, unlike previous star wars movies it didn't get repeat viewings from its audience.

It's okay to like bad movies but trying to make out that most people liked it is disingenuous in the extreme.

It's funny, if I claim the Last Jedi is objectively great to someone who says it's objectively awful, they'll suddenly disagree with the objectivity of it, almost as if...

Wait for it...

It's subjective!

Objectivity in art is impossible. Technique sure but even then I'm going to respect critques of technique from a film maker not a dude on the internet.

I could whip out that I'm a film student and filmmaker, which I am, but guess what I'm not because that doesn't diminish your opinion on the film. You don't like and think it's awful, great.

Don't hide behind the word because you're not being objective, you're trying to impress your dislike of the film onto others by throwing the term around.

That's what I get contentious with TLJ haters about. It's not the hate of the film that bothers me, its not the stating that hate, or the resulting conversation. It's this rabid drive towards claims of being the only true Star Wars fans and that anyone who enjoyed TLJ or RO or TFA is somehow less a fan and whipped by Disney

God I hate a lot about Rebels, although admittedly a lot I love, and I will critique it but I also try not to ever make anyone feel bad about enjoying it.

23 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Twelve hours.

D'ya know how big space is? You couldn't see crait that far away. You just literally could not.

As for Microjumps... We've seen it like, once in canon. And it was charted by a Jedi, no less. But really, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and say that given Microjumps are so obscure..? That such an ability was forgotten about. That just happens.

Gonna' give you this one, I saw TLJ once so I don't personally know why exactly they didn't do more in the fighters, but I figure their objective was to eliminate the command staff and defense. Why not target the engines..? **** if I know.

Way to kinda' completely ignore how the sublight thing works though. Zero acknowledgement on how exactly they got to crait? (Like what, as if they wouldn't jump straight to a system that had a stronghold for them to go to anyway?)

They state it in the movie.

Ackbar has all shields diverted to the aft of the Raddus leaving the rest of the ship entirely open to attack.

Hence Kylo waltzing in and blasting them.

Ackbar obviously couldn't shift shields back because the engines would be taken out by the Supremacy's guns.

2 minutes ago, Forresto said:

They state it in the movie.

Ackbar has all shields diverted to the aft of the Raddus leaving the rest of the ship entirely open to attack.

Hence Kylo waltzing in and blasting them.

Ackbar obviously couldn't shift shields back because the engines would be taken out by the Supremacy's guns.

To be honest, this just makes it even dumber to not send out the full compliment of fighters from the destroyers, then.

26 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Twelve hours.

D'ya know how big space is? You couldn't see crait that far away. You just literally could not.

Because people in star wars base everything on sight? That's now how space works. They have sensors and computers. It's not like a computer couldn't tell you that a planet (or, ya know, the sun it's orbiting) are withing 12 hours of you at sublight travel.

26 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

As for Microjumps... We've seen it like, once in canon. And it was charted by a Jedi, no less. But really, I'm gonna' go out on a limb and say that given Microjumps are so obscure..? That such an ability was forgotten about. That just happens.

False . It's also used in the Tarkin novel by the empire.

26 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Way to kinda' completely ignore how the sublight thing works though. Zero acknowledgement on how exactly they got to crait? (Like what, as if they wouldn't jump straight to a system that had a stronghold for them to go to anyway?)

14 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

The obvious reason is PLOT, if the Raddus loses its engines or if the fighters wipe out the ships that kills the plot, but in universe it makes no sense.

Fine, lets address the sublight thing then, okay, sure the ships were going fast and could get there, but if they were jumping to a system with an old Rebel base why so far away from the base if their main prerogative is to escape, hide and regroup? Last time I checked most ships generally try to come out of hyperspace near a planet, and it wasn't like the Resistance knew that the FO was tracking them until they showed up right after them. And still, with them traveling how did the FO not go oh hey look there is a planet that the Resistance forces are angling for? If I remember correctly we don't really even see the planet until they are near on top of it, but I could be wrong there.

Agreed, you don't jump out to a spot 12-18 hours at sublight speeds away from the planet you want to get to. Especially if you're then going to spend the next 18 hours making a beeline straight for said planet. Did they really think the empire wouldn't investigate the planet after they blew up the Raddis?

1 minute ago, RampancyTW said:

To be honest, this just makes it even dumber to not send out the full compliment of fighters from the destroyers, then.

Or have ships jump to be in front of them and blow through ships that have their shields completely angled away from them with crews so few they couldn't hope to man all the guns on them.

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Agreed, you don't jump out to a spot 12-18 hours at sublight speeds away from the planet you want to get to. Especially if you're then going to spend the next 18 hours making a beeline straight for said planet. Did they really think the empire wouldn't investigate the planet after they blew up the Raddis?

I mean...have you seen the FO? TLJ makes them look like the most incompetent A-holes out there.

1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:

The obvious reason is PLOT, if the Raddus loses its engines or if the fighters wipe out the ships that kills the plot, but in universe it makes no sense.

Fine, lets address the sublight thing then, okay, sure the ships were going fast and could get there, but if they were jumping to a system with an old Rebel base why so far away from the base if their main prerogative is to escape, hide and regroup? Last time I checked most ships generally try to come out of hyperspace near a planet, and it wasn't like the Resistance knew that the FO was tracking them until they showed up right after them. And still, with them traveling how did the FO not go oh hey look there is a planet that the Resistance forces are angling for? If I remember correctly we don't really even see the planet until they are near on top of it, but I could be wrong there.

Well of course we don't see it until they're on top of it. Space is big.

I'd love to see you poke these holes into ANH though.

12 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Well of course we don't see it until they're on top of it. Space is big.

I'd love to see you poke these holes into ANH though.

Yes, space is big but if the ships were moving towards it, you think someone might go "Oh hey look at that, a planet nearly as salty as the fanbase, neat."

I generally don't have many if any issues with ANH and besides it is the first film in the franchise so it establishes lore rather than has to keep to it. TLJ has decades of lore and effort poured into the franchise which it willfully chooses to ignore or to subvert for the sake of it to surprise the audience.

28 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Yes, space is big but if the ships were moving towards it, you think someone might go "Oh hey look at that, a planet nearly as salty as the fanbase, neat."

I generally don't have many if any issues with ANH and besides it is the first film in the franchise so it establishes lore rather than has to keep to it. TLJ has decades of lore and effort poured into the franchise which it willfully chooses to ignore or to subvert for the sake of it to surprise the audience.

If by decades of lore, you mean nine other films, a handful of games and a few books and two TV shows, then yes

7 hours ago, Odanan said:

Talk for yourself buddy.

I have.

And I have explained that I am not the only one who feels like this, as the vast majority of user reviews at IMDB (written by the real customers, not the professional critics) represent my feelings about this "artwork" very well.

But I am happy for you, if you was actually able to love "The last Jedi". I wish I could love it, too. Would be so much easier.

Unfortunately I was shocked by the plot holes, the poor writing, the characters, the "your mama" jokes, the political agendas and a lot more.

It's great though that some people are able to be happy with anything "Star Wars" Disney is going to give them.

Why would they even try to come up with a great story, if people are going to buy stuff anyways?

I’m pretty sure the reason we don’t poke these holes in the other films is that they’re not explained in other films, they’re just aesthetic. In TLJ they’re plot, they’re dialogue, they’re exposition, and they’re bollocks.

There’s one exception that springs to mind though - the people watching a planet in a distant system get blown up in the sky in FA. WTAF?!