On May 11, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Nyxen said:I still don't get why TLJ seems to draw more flak than attack of the Clones. Sure, it wasn't that great, but it wasn't the worst Star Wars.
One word.
Yoda.
That's why. The difference in his actions and personality basically show the dimensional shift that TLJ took the SW universe to. His closing scene in AotC saved the movie for me, I came out of the cinema pumped...
Edited by Larky Bobble12 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:One word.
Yoda.
That's why. The difference in his actions and personality basically show the dimensional shift that TLJ took the SW universe to.
Like that never happened before. Prequel Yoda and OT Yoda are very different.
But consistent. All changes are explainable due to age and experience. TLJ yoda is a clown puppet.
1 hour ago, Freeptop said:The whole thing with Rose and Finn has a point as at the end, Rose explains what makes them the good guys . (I'm thinking here of her explanation of why she stopped Finn, not even the stuff on Canto Bight). Otherwise, they're just two sides killing each other over territory.
Yea, the thing with that is that it is sort of contradictory to Finn's lesson and what we see just before. Finn learns that there is a cause for him to fight and die for, a greater one than just Rey so he tries to act on that but is prevented from doing this and framing it as if he was doing the wrong thing when we just see Holdo do the same exact thing effectively 10 minutes ago and be treated in such a heroic fashion. Not to mention that Rose's little explanation sort of rings a bit hollow when a few seconds later instead of letting Finn do what he was going to do which might have helped the Resistance the battering ram destroys the shield door that would have helped protect the few remnants of the Resistance.
Hey, I actually like TLJ, but I’ll admit it’s clumsy in execution at several points. The clumsiness seems to be concentrated around Rose unfortunately. While Canto Bight did help show the ultimately futile nature of warfare it also needlessly saddled rose with an animal rights arc in a galaxy that enslaves 9 year old boys and 5 year old girls and treats sentient androids even worse. When the galaxy is home to madmen with the power to destroy planets it seems silly to risk your life and the lives of your sworn brothers in arms just to free a couple of space horses that will soon be recaptured and presumedly destroyed anyway. Also Taun Tauns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>space horses.
keep the activism off the screen. This is Star Wars. War profiteering is a valid topic, futility of revenge, sacrifice and courage in the face of impossible odds, all these are worthy topics, but when executives interfere with blatant political agendas in my space fantasy movies I do have a problem with that.
I love strong characters with defined arcs and ongoing development and I love Finn and Poe and Rey and Kylo Ben. But can we please admit that it was extreme ham when rose tries to stop Finn from killing himself by trying to kill him, then telling him she loves him before an earned kiss. This could have been handled a lot better, and I hear it was handled so in the book.
(At any rate, if Finn had been allowed to continue to smash into the big cannon he would have done negligible damage and his sacrifice would have been in vain. That was obvious, right? Yeah Finn is noble in that he was willing to lay down his life for his friends, or for freedom, or to strike back at the bad guys, but his lone speeder ‘attack’ was futile from the start.)
anyway, loved the Luke Rey scenes, loved loved loved the Reylo scenes, the action scenes were very well done, the FO laundry room gag was brilliant. I’m sure I’m in the less vocal minority in all this. I loved that Rey’s parents were drunks (or Kylo was lying), I love that Snoke was left mysterious. And I love that the next movie is almost a complete blank as far as what to expect. Anything is possible at this point.
23 minutes ago, Larky Bobble said:One word.
Yoda.
That's why. The difference in his actions and personality basically show the dimensional shift that TLJ took the SW universe to. His closing scene in AotC saved the movie for me, I came out of the cinema pumped...
Yoda was fine. Also, huge surprise too.
Also Yoda is like, a footnote in most TLJ complaints.
7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:Like that never happened before. Prequel Yoda and OT Yoda are very different.
Yeah, over the top action buzzsaw Yoda makes me yawn. The hermit seemed so real to me, and still does. PT Yoda isn’t even really there. TLJ Yoda is exactly how I pictured him when I first saw him, wise and playful, stern but friendly, powerful but humble, the epitome of a Jedi Master.
On May 12, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Captain Lackwit said:Yoda was fine. Also, huge surprise too.
Also Yoda is like, a footnote in most TLJ complaints.
All true, but the question was the AotC vs TLJ. As I said, he saved AotC and I came out happy from the cinema. He was not the only factor in TLJ that made me despise it, but he is the linking one. They made him into the "foolish" tester as a permanent personality in the afterlife. Cool!
Well imdb has a rating of 6.3 with 600 votes
3 minutes ago, Good991 said:Well imdb has a rating of 6.3 with 600 votes
Wait, is that in reference to the OP? Keep it on topic, TLJ.
18 hours ago, Nyxen said:I still don't get why TLJ seems to draw more flak than attack of the Clones. Sure, it wasn't that great, but it wasn't the worst Star Wars.
tlj was worse than attack of the clones by a long shot. AOC at least had 4 good scenes, TLJ only had 1(luke being a sassy jerkish old man).
When we do star wars marathons at my house, AOC gets watched. I regret even the first viewing of TLJ, definitely never wasting more of my life on that garbage again
1 minute ago, Vontoothskie said:tlj was worse than attack of the clones by a long shot. AOC at least had 4 good scenes, TLJ only had 1(luke being a sassy jerkish old man).
When we do star wars marathons at my house, AOC gets watched. I regret even the first viewing of TLJ, definitely never wasting more of my life on that garbage again
The level of anger, geez.
Guys really though this is a solo topic,
can we not, with TLJ talk?
It is a solo thread, based on reviews that one may well believe.... Unless one read the same type of reviews for TLJ and then despised the movie.
It therefore seems perfectly normal for the thread to be derailed by TLJ hatred and love, until we see the Solo film and can comment directly about the validity of the review.
21 hours ago, Ailowynn said:Not sure Disney isn’t paying critics off. Opening weekend TLJ had ninety-something percent from critics on rotten tomatoes and 50ish from fans. Really? If it was the other way around, I might believe it...
Well film critics actually don't care about snork nor did they watch a bunch of youtube crap about force vampire theories. They are also rather liberal so there was much in that movie for them too like. Movie critics just don't see movies the same way regular audiences do. So yeah, often you get movies critics love and no one sees or you have movies critics hate and get high fan ratings. This is one of those cases where you either like the movie or you hated it, so you get the 50ish from fans.
BTW if Disney is paying the critics off, why not a high score for Wrinkle in Time? I get you don't bite the hand that feeds you but they can't go calling a turd a diamond and have anyone pay attention to them. Their true customers are the advertisers - and they want viewers and viewers want realistic reviews.
1 minute ago, Captain Lackwit said:The level of anger, geez.
Guys really though this is a solo topic, can we not, with TLJ talk?
fair enough. TLJ being filmed is evidence we are in the darkest timeline lol, but its probably better to just ignore it.
If Solo nails the vibe of the preview, it could be as good as rogue 1.
my concern is that by loading it with bids for existing fandom with celebrity casting(space daenerys, etc) and and meta gags, it will be a Disney style math equation instead of a film(a la foa/tlj)..."you like these things individually so if we add them together you'll like it regardless of our product", etc.
the preview looks great. set design looks great. it apears to have learned a lesson from Rogue ones successful linear storytelling and is going with original ideas with omages to source material, which is fantastic. Hopefully we are all raving about it next month!
15 minutes ago, Mep said:Well film critics actually don't care about snork nor did they watch a bunch of youtube crap about force vampire theories. They are also rather liberal so there was much in that movie for them too like. Movie critics just don't see movies the same way regular audiences do. So yeah, often you get movies critics love and no one sees or you have movies critics hate and get high fan ratings. This is one of those cases where you either like the movie or you hated it, so you get the 50ish from fans.
BTW if Disney is paying the critics off, why not a high score for Wrinkle in Time? I get you don't bite the hand that feeds you but they can't go calling a turd a diamond and have anyone pay attention to them. Their true customers are the advertisers - and they want viewers and viewers want realistic reviews.
wrinkle in time didnt have lucrative toy revenue, a major video game tie in, a dozen board/card/paper games, and the biggest brand name in media.
Disney was never gonna make a wrinkle in time every year for the next 30 years, so the comparison isnt really equivalent.
as to critics, they are like politicians... if they dont confirm the views of their audience they lose readership. if they think fanboys or their sponsors want a positive or negative review, it can skew their reviews. thats why people look for reviewers who share their taste to begin with, its the only way to get a good recomendation
2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:Hey, I actually like TLJ, but I’ll admit it’s clumsy in execution at several points. The clumsiness seems to be concentrated around Rose unfortunately. While Canto Bight did help show the ultimately futile nature of warfare it also needlessly saddled rose with an animal rights arc in a galaxy that enslaves 9 year old boys and 5 year old girls and treats sentient androids even worse. When the galaxy is home to madmen with the power to destroy planets it seems silly to risk your life and the lives of your sworn brothers in arms just to free a couple of space horses that will soon be recaptured and presumedly destroyed anyway. Also Taun Tauns >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>space horses.
keep the activism off the screen. This is Star Wars. War profiteering is a valid topic, futility of revenge, sacrifice and courage in the face of impossible odds, all these are worthy topics, but when executives interfere with blatant political agendas in my space fantasy movies I do have a problem with that.
I love strong characters with defined arcs and ongoing development and I love Finn and Poe and Rey and Kylo Ben. But can we please admit that it was extreme ham when rose tries to stop Finn from killing himself by trying to kill him, then telling him she loves him before an earned kiss. This could have been handled a lot better, and I hear it was handled so in the book.
(At any rate, if Finn had been allowed to continue to smash into the big cannon he would have done negligible damage and his sacrifice would have been in vain. That was obvious, right? Yeah Finn is noble in that he was willing to lay down his life for his friends, or for freedom, or to strike back at the bad guys, but his lone speeder ‘attack’ was futile from the start.)
anyway, loved the Luke Rey scenes, loved loved loved the Reylo scenes, the action scenes were very well done, the FO laundry room gag was brilliant. I’m sure I’m in the less vocal minority in all this. I loved that Rey’s parents were drunks (or Kylo was lying), I love that Snoke was left mysterious. And I love that the next movie is almost a complete blank as far as what to expect. Anything is possible at this point.
Yea, I don't want real world politics in my space opera, I want a fun good time that somewhat takes itself seriously instead of Marvel. I love the MCU films but they have a tone to them that works for them, just not in Star Wars. And, in any other Star Wars movie Finn probably would have been able to take out the battering ram, but TLJ is just Star Wars Subversions the movie, seriously Rian Johnson pretty much tries to keep surprising the audience by subverting expectations the entire time whether it works or not.
I do like Finn, even if I felt the lesson in this one was a bit too similar to TFA, he learns that he needs to stand for something and fight for it TFA it is for Rey and TLJ is for the Resistance. Poe is eh, I liked him more in TFA but feel he was used too jokely in this one and he does have a small point in that if they hadn't taken out the Dreadnought that it likely would destroy the fleet later on but is treated as wrong. But well that whole part of the plot has issues. Why don't the FO ships jump forward? Why if the dreadnought was only A dreadnought instead of THE dreadnought why didn't they call for another? Kylo was well done, he still is probably the strongest element in these films so far. Phasma was horribly wasted! Hux was turned into a joke instead of any real threat. Chewie, 3PO, and R2 have all been pushed to the extremes of the background, especially R2 who is supposed to be the fim/franchise's narrator though I think R2 does get the best scene in the movie with the reunion with Luke. Speaking of, Mark did a really good job but still makes Luke look really bad based off what we know of the era and well even if they show why later it just makes the films worse for requiring extra material to make sense. As for Rey, still not really feeling her and I love her introduction in TFA in the Star Destroyer but felt the rest has been meh to unearned.
I'd love if they could make a movie that was as good as Rogue One's third act but like for a full movie, maybe Solo will be, but I won't know until I see the film when it opens.
1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:tlj was worse than attack of the clones by a long shot. AOC at least had 4 good scenes, TLJ only had 1(luke being a sassy jerkish old man).
When we do star wars marathons at my house, AOC gets watched. I regret even the first viewing of TLJ, definitely never wasting more of my life on that garbage again
I agree TLJ is below ATOC in my rankings but I have to ask, what scenes? Are they the Obi-wan ones?
1 hour ago, Mep said:Well film critics actually don't care about snork nor did they watch a bunch of youtube crap about force vampire theories. They are also rather liberal so there was much in that movie for them too like. Movie critics just don't see movies the same way regular audiences do. So yeah, often you get movies critics love and no one sees or you have movies critics hate and get high fan ratings. This is one of those cases where you either like the movie or you hated it, so you get the 50ish from fans.
BTW if Disney is paying the critics off, why not a high score for Wrinkle in Time? I get you don't bite the hand that feeds you but they can't go calling a turd a diamond and have anyone pay attention to them. Their true customers are the advertisers - and they want viewers and viewers want realistic reviews.
That is very true, and when you consider that most those critics either favor a specific genre or watch so many films that ANYTHING different is a nice break from the standard fair. They don't care what fans want, or what is all built up but how that single film is for them. Something that likely surprises them is far more outstanding than a standard hero story.
And, well it is true that there is a demand now for strong independent female driven stories, or ones with diverse casts both in film and in literature. All I care about is strongly written characters regardless of superficial things.
4 hours ago, DekoPuma said:Every space battle. Star Wars has always treated space as though it had atmosphere
4 hours ago, xanderf said:Nevermind Han and Leia walking around on an asteroid in Empire Strikes Back with only breathing masks on. Lower pressure atmosphere? Sure. But definitely space is atmosphere in Star Wars .
Like I said, when it’s just set dressing it doesn’t grate so badly, but as the major plot point, it does. For me anyway.
3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:
Like I said, when it’s just set dressing it doesn’t grate so badly, but as the major plot point, it does. For me anyway.
Eh... Thats a weird point to draw a line at. Star wars is and always was a mythic story. It's a fairy tale in space. It doesn't matter, because space is not there to evoke the feeling of realism. It is the unknown... You don't know how it works, because you are not supposed to. It's the story that matters.
7 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:Eh... Thats a weird point to draw a line at. Star wars is and always was a mythic story. It's a fairy tale in space. It doesn't matter, because space is not there to evoke the feeling of realism. It is the unknown... You don't know how it works, because you are not supposed to. It's the story that matters.
Sorry mate, but that’s just how I feel. I didn’t say that was the main reason I’m ‘meh’ about TLJ, by the way, there are lots of reasons, looking back on it.
Remember, we don’t feel how we feel about a film because we’ve sat and thought about it and worked out all the nonsense and plot holes, counted them up and decided there are too many of them; we just feel how we feel, and then we try to understand why we feel that way (unless we’re profession film critics or students, in which case we’re a different audience entirely).
4 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:Devil's advocate, TPM, when they escape Naboo the hyperdrive was leaking so they couldn't go straight to Coruscant so had to instead go to Tatooine. That said, still doesn't make it super compelling especially as a major driving plot point.
That’s not sublight is it, that’s safely in the realms of made up physics where they can do whatever they want. If they’d kept it all in that realm for TLJ’s main plot there’d have been no problem. Well, OK, there’d have been all the other problems with the film, but there wouldn’t have been that one
Solo.
16 minutes ago, mazz0 said:That’s not sublight is it, that’s safely in the realms of made up physics where they can do whatever they want. If they’d kept it all in that realm for TLJ’s main plot there’d have been no problem. Well, OK, there’d have been all the other problems with the film, but there wouldn’t have been that one
Solo.
I think TLJ ties them together since they said they had enough fuel to make a single jump or to run sublight at full for 18 hours. Still not exactly great and is literally only there to go "Well why don't they just run?"
24 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:I think TLJ ties them together since they said they had enough fuel to make a single jump or to run sublight at full for 18 hours. Still not exactly great and is literally only there to go "Well why don't they just run?"
Instead I say why didn’t they all just jump away in smaller ships, since that’s apparently so easy.
3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:Instead I say why didn’t they all just jump away in smaller ships, since that’s apparently so easy.
Presumedly the individual ships could be tracked through hyperspace but it seemed in the film that only the Radus was being tracked with all the other ships sticking around for no reason. I would think that if the fleet scattered to different jump points then at least some would make it. The plan was to give up the Radus after dropping the transports anyway, why not plan for all support ships to jump away and the Radus to jump after unloading the cloaked transports to be picked up later by surviving support ships.