1 hour ago, Andreu said:

****! This post is about Solo, not TLJ.

Let the past die...

I'm personally looking forward to Solo and this first reviews are encouraging.

Its haters literally cannot help themselves. They've gotta', GOTTA' make everything about TLJ.

But yeah, looking forward to SOLO as well.

34 minutes ago, LeedsLad said:

And AoTC made $400m less than TPM and RoTS made $200m less, and both ESB and Jedi made less than ANH

B-BUT MUH NARRATIVE.

I've never seen fans try SO HARD to convince other fans something was just so awful.

Yo if you enjoyed TLJ then I'm happy for you and more power to you, I wish I could like it

But if you want to tell those that didn't to ignore that several of the character arcs and events that occur are objectively stupid and poorly-thought-out then you're not going to have much success

Back on topic: I hope Solo rocks. I love the idea of "normal" movie stories set in the SW Universe a la R1. Glad early reviews are promising.

2 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Yo if you enjoyed TLJ then I'm happy for you and more power to you, I wish I could like it

But if you want to tell those that didn't to ignore that several of the character arcs and events that occur are objectively stupid and poorly-thought-out then you're not going to have much success

Back on topic: I hope Solo rocks. I love the idea of "normal" movie stories set in the SW Universe a la R1. Glad early reviews are promising.

Promising early reviews are no guarantee of a good movie, but they are certainly a much better indicator than negative early reviews. Color me optimistic!

TLJ's greatest challenge was that it was the film millions of fans expected to answer all their questions from TFA. Some of these fans had their own theories about Snoke, what Luke was going to do, Rey's parents, etc. etc. etc. and when they didn't get the movie they wanted, they've turned to hate.

I think that's a silly reason to dislike the film. If you're going to dislike it, then dislike it for the poor character in Hodo. Dislike it for the way it killed of Ackbar instead of giving him a send off. Dislike it for the Force Mary Poppins. Dislike it for the entirely useless to the overall story Canto Byte (sp?) story arc. Dislike it for playing hard and fast with established Star Wars 'science' (lobbing turbolasers? WTF?).

But to hate a film so vehemently because it wasn't what you would have done and/or for the inclusion of a more diverse range of characters is just juvenile.

4 hours ago, Norsehound said:

That was my experience as well- so much so that I'm astounded when people say the prequels were better than the sequel series. It hasn't held up in recent re-viewings either when I'm older- Hayden Christensen is too awkwardly unbearable to take seriously as our protagonist in 2 and 3. Wonky as Jar-Jar is, he's nowhere near the level of uncomfortable viewing that we're forced to watch with Anakin. Say what you will about The Last Jedi, at least it spares us the creepy leering vibes emanating out of the romantic plotline in II.

Something fans need to keep in mind with The Force Awakens is that the prequels were derided because they were a departure from Star Wars. TFA plays safe by re-treading the path of the original story... and it's derided for being too close to ANH. Now the sequel series breaks new ground and does something different and fans are even more unhappy about it? What's the ideal outcome for the cinema universe here- do you want original content or not? Because TLJ is original.

Solo seems to get better and better with each preview I see, so I'm excited for it (even if my significant other isn't). This kind of is the Edge of the Empire movie if Rogue One was the Age of Rebellion film.

That’s just not true. The problem with the prequels and TLJ isn’t the originality, it’s the execution. I think many of us were glad of the originality, but just wished it had been done well. You’re right that the problem with FA is the copy-paste.

The ideal is originality material, well executed.

5 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

TLJ's greatest challenge was that it was the film millions of fans expected to answer all their questions from TFA. Some of these fans had their own theories about Snoke, what Luke was going to do, Rey's parents, etc. etc. etc. and when they didn't get the movie they wanted, they've turned to hate.

I think that's a silly reason to dislike the film. If you're going to dislike it, then dislike it for the poor character in Hodo. Dislike it for the way it killed of Ackbar instead of giving him a send off. Dislike it for the Force Mary Poppins. Dislike it for the entirely useless to the overall story Canto Byte (sp?) story arc. Dislike it for playing hard and fast with established Star Wars 'science' (lobbing turbolasers? WTF?).

But to hate a film so vehemently because it wasn't what you would have done and/or for the inclusion of a more diverse range of characters is just juvenile.

Yep, I’m with you on most of those points. I just found TLJ quite meh. I enjoyed it, but I don’t feel much impulse to rewatctch it, which I do with both the OT the the PT. However, I actually really liked how they dealt with Rey and Snoke, Rey especially. It would have been rubbish in my opinion if she had been the daughter of a main character, it would have made the galaxy seem smaller. I’d like to know Snoke’s background, but I similarly I’d rather he not be related to anyone we know either.

The only part of your list of peeves that didn’t bother me was the force Mary Poppins. I liked that! My biggest peev though was the main story (OK, maybe second biggest after Finn and Rose). The whole idea of the chase, where they can get a certain distance ahead but no further just made no sense, and the feel of it was ruined when it was revealed people could just bugger off in a little shuttle any time they liked. WHY DIDNT EVERYONE DO THAT?! Ugh.

Excited about Solo though - new toys!

2 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Its haters literally cannot help themselves. They've gotta', GOTTA' make everything about TLJ.

But yeah, looking forward to SOLO as well.

B-BUT MUH NARRATIVE.

I've never seen fans try SO HARD to convince other fans something was just so awful.

There’s a general backlash in society today against so-called SJWs, neofeminism, LGBT, and even immigration, or whatever seems to be bothering people simply based on the mere existence of something that is annoying to a segment of the population. The further polarization of ‘right and left’ is getting into my SW and I don’t like it. Both extremes can go FAQ themselves.

that being said I know lots of folks who vowed SW was dead from the moment of the Disney deal being announced. And I totally get the ‘Hilary Clinton’ vibes being given off by Kathleen Kennedy. But as @Dr Zoidberg said there’s plenty of reasons to dislike TLJ on technical and film making terms reguardless of any potential political agenda.

Canto Bight......why not just have Maz Kanada be present on the Radus and have her as the expert code person and go directly to sneaking onto the enemy ship...if you must have that kind of plot. The plan can still fail, Maz can have a noble sacrifice or something and you cut out literally 30 minutes of cringe inducing filler with an obvious, unneeded and out-of-place animal rights PSA and it eliminates the plot hole of coming and going as you please during a full acceleration space chase.

The only thing I would miss is the point of showing how war profiteering is a thing in that galaxy, and that could be shown in a short scene when Poe and Co. try to get help from anyone listening on the radio, and having some scummies show up and screw over the fleet by giving them faulty cloaking devices or something...literally anything can be written in to replace Canto Bight and take up only a few minutes of screen time. Or leave it out, save the profiteers for the Resistence cartoon.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

it eliminates the plot hole of coming and going as you please during a full acceleration space chase.

But it wasn’t a maximum acceleration space chase, if it had been the FO would either have caught them, or they’d have gotten out of range. It just made no sense!

36 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

But it wasn’t a maximum acceleration space chase, if it had been the FO would either have caught them, or they’d have gotten out of range. It just made no sense!

The resistance was faster, but low on fuel. If they went max speed, they would briefly escape the First Order, and then be dead in the water while the FO caught up. So instead they went just fast enough to stay out of effective turbolaser range, in order to conserve fuel. The entire point was just to buy time.

The First Order was at max speed, the Resistance was not.

It makes perfect sense, and is 100% explained in the movie.

I always feel like "How is this even possible?" when somebody calls himself a Star Wars fan AND likes the movie "The Last Jedi"

Why? Just have a look at the user reviews at IMDB. The whole movie and what it has done to legends like Luke Skywalker felt like an insult to a loyal fanbase that has lasted 40 years.

That's why I have got a bad feeling about the Solo movie.

I am even wondering if I should go and watch it in cinem at all, because I don't want to support Disney for ruining legendary movies and Stars of my childhood (such as Luke & Han)

Y'all think last Jedi is poorly executed, think a bit more...

Not trying to convince you to like the movie... But it isn't a stupid movie.

41 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

The resistance was faster, but low on fuel. If they went max speed, they would briefly escape the First Order, and then be dead in the water while the FO caught up. So instead they went just fast enough to stay out of effective turbolaser range, in order to conserve fuel. The entire point was just to buy time.

The First Order was at max speed, the Resistance was not.

It makes perfect sense, and is 100% explained in the movie.

That’s not the f- space works. The speed limit (outside imaginary physics like hyperspace) is the speed of light, which is the same for everyone, and maintaining speed doesn’t require fuel, only accelerating requires fuel.

I don’t normally take issue with silly science in a world of laser swords, space wizards and spaceships that move like aeroplanes, but this feels different. Maybe it’s because it was key to the whole story, maybe it’s because those other things were never explained (the hint at an explanation of the Force via midiclorians felt off too) while this kinda was, albeit badly, maybe it’s because this was the foundation of the whole plot, not just some world dressing, I dunno. Certainly the idea of people nipping in and out of the situation at will ruined the vibe anyway.

33 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

The resistance was faster, but low on fuel. If they went max speed, they would briefly escape the First Order, and then be dead in the water while the FO caught up. So instead they went just fast enough to stay out of effective turbolaser range, in order to conserve fuel. The entire point was just to buy time.

The First Order was at max speed, the Resistance was not.

It makes perfect sense, and is 100% explained in the movie.

I agree. I also think it was a contrived setup and could have been plotted differently. A blockade of the initially abandoned planet would have made sense, with perhaps a small force running the blockade to find a way to get help or even get to Rey and Luke. The time limit plot can be the same as they did in Rebels season 3 with the planetary/base shields only being able to hold out against a full bombardment as long as the power holds.

the small crew that runs the blockade could even attempt to infiltrate the Supremecy and try to crash it into the FO fleet by sabatage. But I guess if it’s destiny that the Resistence is whittled down you can have the shields fail as the FO fleet is thrown into disarray and any remaining rebel ships being blasted as they tried to escape with only a rag tag band surviving. You can even have an ill fated bombing run somewhere in there.

Its not hard to rewrite a plausible scenario but once you are sold on a car chase in space there’s no going back.

3 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

There’s a general backlash in society today against so-called SJWs, neofeminism, LGBT, and even immigration, or whatever seems to be bothering people simply based on the mere existence of something that is annoying to a segment of the population. The further polarization of ‘right and left’ is getting into my SW and I don’t like it. Both extremes can go FAQ themselves.

This. I think we can all agree that Star Wars is best when it's Star Wars. I don't care which side pushes which "real world narrative" BS into it, because none of it belongs there and it just ruins the taste of something usually great.

Back at topic though: I'm genuinely curious to see how SOLO turned out. I don't think the reviews necessarily tell us much besides it didn't f*ck up the basics, but I am pretty sure Ron Howard can manage something I can enjoy.

Seriously, I watched "Rush" to see how he handles cocky characters and I came out of the experience wanting to see his rendition of Lando and Han.

18 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

That’s not the f- space works. The speed limit (outside imaginary physics like hyperspace) is the speed of light, which is the same for everyone, and maintaining speed doesn’t require fuel, only accelerating requires fuel.

That's not a thing in Star Wars and never has been.

15 hours ago, Nyxen said:

I still don't get why TLJ seems to draw more flak than attack of the Clones. Sure, it wasn't that great, but it wasn't the worst Star Wars.

Jump the shark moments: Leia vs Yoda. But generally TLJ and the ST films in general bring the original heroes down, make everything they did useless for the most part and kill them off for shock value. As well as not showing off certain moments like giving Luke a moment to mourn for Han instead of showing him milking and drinking some creepy walrus creature. ATOC also has a better plot overall but is executed poorly, that being the whole mystery at play vs the snail race in space while everyone tries to do their own thing without coming together. And, personally, TLJ lacks the Ewan playing an enjoyable Obi-wan that I'd love to see more of.

14 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Eh, people like to gloss over the silly aspects of all the movies except R1, but they're there to varying degrees. Maybe it's that R1 was a tough act to follow, having finally given people the non-silly Star Wars movie they always wanted.

Embrace the silly side! Over-seriousness clearly leads to hatred, which leads to the Dark Side! ?

I mean, I like Rogue One but I'll admit that the first two acts are weak and it is mostly fondly remembered for that strong third act and the amazing battle and Vader. From what I've heard that Solo is a little similar with a weak first half or so but then picks up, basically it is sort of eh until Lando and the other characters show up. Granted, those are just what some reviews say and I'll hold my own opinion until I see the film.

7 hours ago, Kodos said:

Don't underestimate Disney. Yes they are the family friendly company, but than a good Scum movie is not achieved because there are a lot of bad words, body parts and blood around (compare Oceans Eleven to John Wick, there is a lot of space in between for a good scum movie)

on the other hand, they adressed some of the plot holes of ANH in one of their kids shows (Phineas and Pherb), so they are aware of what they have and what they can do.

Eh, not exactly the same since that is two different divisions of Disney, one being the animation department while the other is Lucasfilm.

27 minutes ago, DekoPuma said:

That's not a thing in Star Wars and never has been.

When has fuel and sublight acceleration and speed ever come up before? Maybe it has in passing and it’s not stuck in my memory. Like I said, I’m not normally bothered by bad science in Star Wars.

1 minute ago, mazz0 said:

When has fuel and sublight acceleration and speed ever come up before? Maybe it has in passing and it’s not stuck in my memory. Like I said, I’m not normally bothered by bad science in Star Wars.

If there is sound in space then there is also friction. There

4 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

When has fuel and sublight acceleration and speed ever come up before? Maybe it has in passing and it’s not stuck in my memory. Like I said, I’m not normally bothered by bad science in Star Wars.

Every space battle. Star Wars has always treated space as though it had atmosphere

19 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

If there is sound in space then there is also friction. There

Nevermind Han and Leia walking around on an asteroid in Empire Strikes Back with only breathing masks on. Lower pressure atmosphere? Sure. But definitely space is atmosphere in Star Wars .

31 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

When has fuel and sublight acceleration and speed ever come up before? Maybe it has in passing and it’s not stuck in my memory. Like I said, I’m not normally bothered by bad science in Star Wars.

Devil's advocate, TPM, when they escape Naboo the hyperdrive was leaking so they couldn't go straight to Coruscant so had to instead go to Tatooine. That said, still doesn't make it super compelling especially as a major driving plot point.

2 hours ago, DekoPuma said:

The resistance was faster, but low on fuel. If they went max speed, they would briefly escape the First Order, and then be dead in the water while the FO caught up. So instead they went just fast enough to stay out of effective turbolaser range, in order to conserve fuel. The entire point was just to buy time.

The First Order was at max speed, the Resistance was not.

It makes perfect sense, and is 100% explained in the movie.

Uh-huh. So what about the TIEs?

We saw right at the very start of the battle that the First's Order's TIEs were capable of causing massive damage to the Rebel capital ships. They blew out the hangar, blew out the bridge, so why didn't the First Order keep on sending more and more TIEs to harass the Raddus while it ran?

Nothing about The Last Jedi's slow-motion space-chase makes sense, from the initial battle, to the long range bombardment, to it manage to move between systems in a matter of hours/days at sub-light speeds. It's awful, awful writing and utterly contrived.

47 minutes ago, Animewarsdude said:

Jump the shark moments: Leia vs Yoda. But generally TLJ and the ST films in general bring the original heroes down, make everything they did useless for the most part and kill them off for shock value. As well as not showing off certain moments like giving Luke a moment to mourn for Han instead of showing him milking and drinking some creepy walrus creature. ATOC also has a better plot overall but is executed poorly, that being the whole mystery at play vs the snail race in space while everyone tries to do their own thing without coming together. And, personally, TLJ lacks the Ewan playing an enjoyable Obi-wan that I'd love to see more of.

To be fair, different story for different generations. Star Wars came out when characters like Superman, He-Man, other single entities could magically save the day and everyone had children ever after. That story doesn't resonate anymore. I for one enjoyed the fact that it had the sting of realism that despite all their efforts, a few idealists won't change the **** disposition of the galaxy at large.

4 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Canto Bight......why not just have Maz Kanada be present on the Radus and have her as the expert code person and go directly to sneaking onto the enemy ship...if you must have that kind of plot. The plan can still fail, Maz can have a noble sacrifice or something and you cut out literally 30 minutes of cringe inducing filler with an obvious, unneeded and out-of-place animal rights PSA and it eliminates the plot hole of coming and going as you please during a full acceleration space chase.

The only thing I would miss is the point of showing how war profiteering is a thing in that galaxy, and that could be shown in a short scene when Poe and Co. try to get help from anyone listening on the radio, and having some scummies show up and screw over the fleet by giving them faulty cloaking devices or something...literally anything can be written in to replace Canto Bight and take up only a few minutes of screen time. Or leave it out, save the profiteers for the Resistence cartoon.

Canto Bight served two main purposes:
1. Character development for Rose and Finn.

2. Character development for Poe.

Why was this character development for Poe when he didn't even go? Because it was his rash decision to send Finn and Rose that resulted in most of the Resistance getting destroyed. If he hadn't sent them, there would have been no betrayal by DJ, no discovery of the tracking device on Finn, and thus, the Resistance would have safely hidden on Crait with the First Order none-the-wiser.

I saw someone else (not on these forums) point out that early in the movie, Poe doesn't worry so much about the loss of the bomber squadron, because he felt they achieved the mission. At the end, he echoes Leia's commands to him when he orders Finn to break off when he realizes they're just sacrificing more and more people. Going for the glory backfired on him enough times by that point for him to genuinely grow as a character, and not just be a two-dimensional hot-shot pilot stereotype. He becomes a commander in reality, and not just title.

The whole thing with Rose and Finn has a point as at the end, Rose explains what makes them the good guys . (I'm thinking here of her explanation of why she stopped Finn, not even the stuff on Canto Bight). Otherwise, they're just two sides killing each other over territory.

If they'd just had Maz be present, there's no story. They all escape, the end. No tension, no conflict, no difficulties. That sounds utterly boring.

I do think the Canto Bight section dragged on a bit long, and could have been done a bit better, but it did serve an important purpose to the story.

3 hours ago, DekoPuma said:

The resistance was faster, but low on fuel. If they went max speed, they would briefly escape the First Order, and then be dead in the water while the FO caught up. So instead they went just fast enough to stay out of effective turbolaser range, in order to conserve fuel. The entire point was just to buy time.

The First Order was at max speed, the Resistance was not.

It makes perfect sense, and is 100% explained in the movie.

Thank you. You get it.