1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

it's hard to evaluate how much something was improved when it lost the ability to target everything and anything it wanted regardless of facing at all times (also losing out on white roll and the ability to boost...at all)

unless Luke gunner ends up being incredibly affordable on it (we can only hope that he isn't, or that the yt-2400 doesn't even have a gunner slot)

I agree with you,

and most of my fears are if it has that gunner spot....

I think Luke was a design mistake.

amen

the polish spoiler for Luke would constitute the most boneheaded decision by FFG since the inception of the PWT

probably even worse given they already know how ******* stupid it is and are repeating the mistake

I hope the Phantom gets a crew slot. Whisper with Quiz crew is gonna be scary.

Luke is still unique. Fat Han may he back in a way now, but if its costed right that's not a bad thing. He's one of the best pilots in one of the best ships in the series.

Let's not act like TLT Y-Wings are suddenly back because one card.

1 minute ago, Icelom said:

I agree with you,

and most of my fears are if it has that gunner spot....

I think Luke was a design mistake.

It would make sense not to give it a gunner spot. To differentiate from the falcon.

Just now, Icelom said:

I am aware of all these things,

But all the ships its shooting at have reduced defensive bonuses as well (autothrusters, evade token, general token stacking all nerfed or completely changed)

Compared to the other turret ships who mostly just lost there turrets to mobile arcs dash really was improved. I mean the shadowcaster for example is now 2dice on its turret.

3-dice + focus + evade + autothrusters was a hard-counter to Dash anyway, he could never break through that. Now you actually have to out-fly the Dash player rather than just bring a bunch of upgrades that brick wall him regardless. They've made it significantly easier for generics to outfly Dash now. If you rush Dash to get close range, and force him to Barrel Roll away, that makes it easier to block him next turn. If he decides to sit and trade at range 1, your ships now have a significant jousting advantage even if they're still in arc.

I think that's a big selling point for 2.0, either you outfly your opponent, or you don't get to rely on easy-mode token stacking to carry you through a game.

Luke I think exists in a design vacuum right now, we don't know his cost, we don't know how common the rebel gunner slot is (we just know it's for Ys, ARCs and the Falcon for sure, I think?), we don't even have the card in it's english form yet do we? We don't know if there are upgrades or abilities which can counter force tokens, we don't know what might be the opportunity cost of the gunner slot, etc. Like, lots of stuff looks real strong in a vacuum but there is a LOT of content even this stream didn't hit yet.

33 minutes ago, Otacon said:

I mean, you do care about facing to an extent. Luke lets you do a rotate turret action, so unless you also pay for Engine Upgrade, you can't use Luke to change facing in the same turn you red boost. The big strength of Fat turrets wasn't just ignoring facing, it was being able to do that while also dodging arcs through the really strong large base boost. I'd be willing to bet Han + Luke Gunner + Engine Upgrade is prohibitively expensive in regards to having anything else in the list, given how the point of moving everything to mobile arcs in the first place was how powerful firing outside your arc was. And hey, if they somehow managed to screw it up, they have a way to fix the points now to make it incredibly expensive.

Did they show Luke on stream? Because as per the Polish leak, Luke is not an action, isn't bothered by stress, bumping, ion or crits.

People bringing up the spend Force point requirement losing the mini focus... How is that a cons? The mini focus is provided by the very card. You are sure to catch whatever you want in your arc, and in case you did that on your own, you get a free extremely-rare-in-second-edition tokenless dice mod.

31 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

there is no excuse that can properly justify their existence

....to be fair, you say the same thing about green dice!

Just now, UnitOmega said:

Luke I think exists in a design vacuum right now, we don't know his cost, we don't know how common the rebel gunner slot is (we just know it's for Ys, ARCs and the Falcon for sure, I think?), we don't even have the card in it's english form yet do we? We don't know if there are upgrades or abilities which can counter force tokens, we don't know what might be the opportunity cost of the gunner slot, etc. Like, lots of stuff looks real strong in a vacuum but there is a LOT of content even this stream didn't hit yet.

again, "strong" has nothing to do with it

the idea of approximating ye ole PWT mechanic in any way shape or form is a terrible TERRIBLE idea that contradicts the entire point of 2.0

unless the polish translation is wrong and Luke is actually just Gyroscopic Targeting (ie, something that requires actual thought, prediction, and strategy), then no good can come of him

best case would make him so overcosted that we'd never have to suffer his presence on the table

Just now, eMeM said:

Did they show Luke on stream? Because Polish leak Luke is not an action, isn't bothered by stress, bumping, ion or crits.

People bringing up the spend Force point requirement losing the mini focus... How is that a cons? The mini focus is provided by the very card. You are sure to catch whatever you want in your arc, and in case you did that on your own, you get a free extremely-rare-in-second-edition tokenless dice mod.

Yep, unless luke is very very expensive he just undoes the entire change to turrets for every ship with a gunner slot.

They've already said that Force powers are going to be expensive by their nature. I'd be surprised if Luke's crew card doesn't come in at a minimum of 14 points for such a powerful ability. For all we know, he could end up being over 20 points.

So has anyone created something that just shows all the new stuff?

1 minute ago, That One Guy said:

So has anyone created something that just shows all the new stuff?

https://imgur.com/a/2cjJNEo

With a lot of ships having Force Powers, I would not be surprised if it's more than 20

While I am here.. I did my best to screen cap most of the reveal on Stream today. I do not have time to get them all

I took the time to crop those, and throw them in zip folders. If anyone missed the Stream, and don't want to listen to the entire thing.. My Discord was working when I tested it. Discord has had outages as of late but, feel free to try

You do not need an account, or app to view my Discord server. Copy and paste this to your browser: discord.gg/CpfESsF then type some random name on the line, and hit join

30 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

It means if you barrel roll onto a rock, you can't shoot. Previously, You could turn off Dash's ability to reposition and if you ended up on a rock, you could basicly take back the action and do something else.

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because if you screw up and roll onto a rock, no takesie backsies.

It's also possible to catch him with rigged cargo now, tractor him onto rocks, etc.

Dash's ability isn't "during the activation phase" anymore, it's while you move. So you can't barrel roll onto rocks at all now. If you're ON a rock, you can barrel roll off, but only as long as the template doesn't overlap part of the rock in te process (which it's a lot more likely to when the template has to go in the center of the ship).

3 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Dash's ability isn't "during the activation phase" anymore, it's while you move. So you can't barrel roll onto rocks at all now. If you're ON a rock, you can barrel roll off, but only as long as the template doesn't overlap part of the rock in te process (which it's a lot more likely to when the template has to go in the center of the ship).

Ah, good point. So the big rocks will be worrying as they could block all of the BR options and even debris can box Dash in after he has completed his move.

The Outrider title itself was never shown. I doubt they have eliminated the title completely.

14 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Dash's ability isn't "during the activation phase" anymore, it's while you move. So you can't barrel roll onto rocks at all now. If you're ON a rock, you can barrel roll off, but only as long as the template doesn't overlap part of the rock in te process (which it's a lot more likely to when the template has to go in the center of the ship).

Move could be a new game turn that includes maneuvers, boosts, barrel rolls, decloak, etc. Other cards refer to maneuvers, so I don't think that term changed.

14 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Dash's ability isn't "during the activation phase" anymore, it's while you move. So you can't barrel roll onto rocks at all now.

That directly contradicts what Alex was saying while explaining the ability. He explicitly said that Dash's ability does work during his barrel rolls, and that the only difference from his current incarnation in regards to the ability is that it's no longer a 'may'.

Just now, kraedin said:

Move could be a new game turn that includes maneuvers, boosts, barrel rolls, decloak, etc. Other cards refer to maneuvers, so I don't think that term changed.

Pretty sure they explicitly said as much on stream.

20 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

So has anyone created something that just shows all the new stuff?

Well, there is the thread titled “All Screenshots from Unboxing” that has been sitting in the top 5 threads on the front page for the past 2 hours.

Any interest in putting together a google poll asking the community to vote on what they think each generic ship should cost on the 2.0 scale? It would be really interesting to see how close/far they are from FFGs initial pricing based on simply the dial and stats.

But... we don’t know upgrades... so I guess it would still be a little pointless. Rats. Would’ve been fun.

1 minute ago, Aaron Foss said:

That directly contradicts what Alex was saying while explaining the ability. He explicitly said that Dash's ability does work during his barrel rolls, and that the only difference from his current incarnation in regards to the ability is that it's no longer a 'may'.

Ahh, I missed that

22 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Dash's ability isn't "during the activation phase" anymore, it's while you move. So you can't barrel roll onto rocks at all now. If you're ON a rock, you can barrel roll off, but only as long as the template doesn't overlap part of the rock in te process (which it's a lot more likely to when the template has to go in the center of the ship).

Move != execute a manuever.

On the stream they said, quote: "moving in second edition is your manuevers, your barrel rolls, your dial, and that's basically old Dash except he's no longer a "may"".

Edit, **** I'm slow, sorry ?