2 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I am very scared of the YT-2400

Massive buff to still have a 3dice shot in range 1.

If this thing has a gunner slot and access to luke or Han gunner.... well it better be coasted through the roof. Even without the gunner slot its a **** of a damage dealer at all ranges. Should have had a red rotate imo... but again who knows until we know the point costs but even with 0 upgrade slots this thing is a monster.

Its my only "wtf did they do" moment from the stream.

The red roll and dash's ability not being optional is a huge nerf though.

But yeah, it's the first ship I've been more than a little concerned by.

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

if your insurance policy isn't "fly better" then you have some improving to do

apart from the interceptor, NOTHING arc-dodges as well as it used to

even the interceptor has a fiddly barrel-roll to contend with

1.0 turrets are a **** mechanic and they have no place in any game based on manuevering and tactical positions

there is no excuse that can properly justify their existence

Oh yeah, the "Fly Better" response. The same response people pull out of their *** to punish less skilled players. Not everyone can be a World Champion of X-Wing and I've seen many a player throw their hands up in frustration because an opponent just arc dodgers (which is fine, it's what it does). However, I don't think having ONE CARD that is a hard counter to that playstyle is a problem.

Edit: Plus, let's be real, Fat Han was a problem back in waves 2 to 5. We've had just a few waves since then. I'm pretty sure with the ship options out there Han is not the devil he was. Otherwise...we'd still be seeing him.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

The red roll and dash's ability not being optional is a huge nerf though.

But yeah, it's the first ship I've been more than a little concerned by.

Expert handling can be the ept to make that white... since you won't want predator or anything like that anyways on a turreted ship.

18 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I am very scared of the YT-2400

Massive buff to still have a 3dice shot in range 1.

If this thing has a gunner slot and access to luke or Han gunner.... well it better be coasted through the roof. Even without the gunner slot its a **** of a damage dealer at all ranges. Should have had a red rotate imo... but again who knows until we know the point costs but even with 0 upgrade slots this thing is a monster.

Its my only "wtf did they do" moment from the stream.

It’s only 2 dice at range 1.

edit: Wait. No.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

The red roll and dash's ability not being optional is a huge nerf though.

But yeah, it's the first ship I've been more than a little concerned by.

why is dash's ability not being optional a nerf? I can see no negative to the player for this change

Just now, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s only 2 dice at range 1.

how? they said that in the stream but I cannot see the math to support this number

1 minute ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s only 2 dice at range 1.

That's not how it's worded. Even if they said that on stream, that's not how it reads.

"Roll 1 less die and do not apply the range bonus" is 4-1=3.

1 minute ago, Ebak said:

Oh yeah, the "Fly Better" response. The same response people pull out of their *** to punish less skilled players. Not everyone can be a World Champion of X-Wing and I've seen many a player throw their hands up in frustration because an opponent just arc dodgers (which is fine, it's what it does). However, I don't think having ONE CARD that is a hard counter to that playstyle is a problem.

The problem is if the card is cheap enough (hopefully not) it just gets bolted onto every single big hammer turret ship and if you show up with an arc dodge list you just lose to it as you don't have the old autothrusters and you don't have huge stacks of tokens.

If luke on the yt-1200 or yt-2400 just makes it so you can reliably slam interceptors every round then you really cant bring interceptors anymore. Luke needs to cost an absolute fortune to justify his hard counter ability.

31 minutes ago, Skitchx said:

Force regenerates at a rate of 1 per turn.

Yeah, but now it's between using the ability and having a micro focus. I just don't see her coming out ahead if Ketsu has the same ability since you want primary shots anyway now.

3 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

It’s only 2 dice at range 1.

No. read the card. (even if it was a 2 thats still a massive buff over the 0 it has now)

3 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Expert handling can be the ept to make that white... since you won't want predator or anything like that anyways on a turreted ship.

And then you're not taking a better EPT, and I'm betting there will be some.

And that assumes it has the slot. If it taking EH is problematic, it loses the EPT slot.

1 minute ago, Skandranon said:

why is dash's ability not being optional a nerf? I can see no negative to the player for this change

It means if you barrel roll onto a rock, you can't shoot. Previously, You could turn off Dash's ability to reposition and if you ended up on a rock, you could basicly take back the action and do something else.

4 minutes ago, Skandranon said:

why is dash's ability not being optional a nerf? I can see no negative to the player for this change

Because if you screw up and roll onto a rock, no takesie backsies.

It's also possible to catch him with rigged cargo now, tractor him onto rocks, etc.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

And then you're not taking a better EPT, and I'm betting there will be some.

And that assumes it has the slot. If it taking EH is problematic, it loses the EPT slot.

I guess we just have to disagree, as even with a 3 dice shot at range one barrel rolling is less important for it in 2.0

Its a scary big buff to give it a range 1 3 dice shot at the cost of a barrel roll being red. (imo)

You do realize that it doesn't have a 360 arc any more, right?

1 minute ago, Icelom said:

I guess we just have to disagree, as even with a 3 dice shot at range one barrel rolling is less important for it in 2.0

Its a scary big buff to give it a range 1 3 dice shot at the cost of a barrel roll being red. (imo)

Like I said, I'm more than a little concerned about it.

But if it's too strong, it's much, much easier to corral it now.

Nevermind

3 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I am very scared of the YT-2400

Massive buff to still have a 3dice shot in range 1.

If this thing has a gunner slot and access to luke or Han gunner.... well it better be coasted through the roof. Even without the gunner slot its a **** of a damage dealer at all ranges. Should have had a red rotate imo... but again who knows until we know the point costs but even with 0 upgrade slots this thing is a monster.

Its my only "wtf did they do" moment from the stream.

Somethings important to note:

1) Ships now get defense bonuses at range 3 against it. Skilled players will be rewarded for keeping opponent's in arc and at range 2 without having to spend an action on Barrel Rolling.

2) It's now an arc, so in addition to gaining a significant advantage over it at range 1, you also can arc dodge it altogether. It was not difficult at all for ships with boost+barrel roll to hug Dash's donut hole or stay at range 4 if they were higher pilot skill.

3) Dash can no longer chain actions to get Barrel Roll + dice modification, and having the Barrel Roll be red significantly hurts his mobility on subsequent turns, so he will have to pay extra for Expert Handling. If passive dice mods are truly being limited to front arc or bullseye arcs, it will be hard for him to benefit from those at all while playing the keep away game.

Assuming any new upgrades we see are similar in power/restrictions to Predator/Outmaneuver/Marksmanship, Dash looks weaker to me and the generic outrider looks slightly stronger than it was in 1.0. Dash is still going to be hard-countered by higher PS aces just like in 1.0, and is going to have to play smart to beat swarms.

It also appears to be significantly more difficult to get good action economy out of those ships.

Just now, Panzeh said:

You do realize that it doesn't have a 360 arc any more, right?

Yes. (does not change my fear that it's too strong.... baring points of course)

1 minute ago, AlexW said:

As pointed out, it's two.

A four dice shot, minus one die for being at range 1, is a three dice shot.

They said two on the stream but the card definitely says otherwise.

1 minute ago, Tvboy said:

Somethings important to note:

1) Ships now get defense bonuses at range 3 against it. Skilled players will be rewarded for keeping opponent's in arc and at range 2 without having to spend an action on Barrel Rolling.

2) It's now an arc, so in addition to gaining a significant advantage over it at range 1, you also can arc dodge it altogether. It was not difficult at all for ships with boost+barrel roll to hug Dash's donut hole or stay at range 4 if they were higher pilot skill.

3) Dash can no longer chain actions to get Barrel Roll + dice modification, and having the Barrel Roll be red significantly hurts his mobility on subsequent turns, so he will have to pay extra for Expert Handling. If passive dice mods are truly being limited to front arc or bullseye arcs, it will be hard for him to benefit from those at all while playing the keep away game.

Assuming any new upgrades we see are similar in power/restrictions to Predator/Outmaneuver/Marksmanship, Dash looks weaker to me and the generic outrider looks slightly stronger than it was in 1.0. Dash is still going to be hard-countered by higher PS aces just like in 1.0, and is going to have to play smart to beat swarms.

I am aware of all these things,

But all the ships its shooting at have reduced defensive bonuses as well (autothrusters, evade token, general token stacking all nerfed or completely changed)

Compared to the other turret ships who mostly just lost there turrets to mobile arcs dash really was improved. I mean the shadowcaster for example is now 2dice on its turret.

1 minute ago, nexttwelveexits said:

A four dice shot, minus one die for being at range 1, is a three dice shot.

They said two on the stream but the card definitely says otherwise.

I thin k they meant 'it has a 2 primary at range 1 that gets range bonuses' but the phrasing was godawful.

They did say quite a few things that appeared to contradict the cards, at times.

2 minutes ago, Icelom said:

I am aware of all these things,

But all the ships its shooting at have reduced defensive bonuses as well (autothrusters, evade token, general token stacking all nerfed or completely changed)

Compared to the other turret ships who mostly just lost there turrets to mobile arcs dash really was improved. I mean the shadowcaster for example is now 2dice on its turret.

it's hard to evaluate how much something was improved when it lost the ability to target everything and anything it wanted regardless of facing at all times (also losing out on white roll and the ability to boost...at all)

unless Luke gunner ends up being incredibly affordable on it (we can only hope that he isn't, or that the yt-2400 doesn't even have a gunner slot)

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

They did say quite a few things that appeared to contradict the cards, at times.

As a guy who has done videos and podcasts and stuff for long periods - it isn't surprising. They weren't working off a script so it can get real easy to trip on your words when you're talking that much. Alex voice was dying by the time the stream was done.