On 5/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, VanderLegion said:i will be *shocked* if the defender costs less than 67 points with an extra shield, a buffed dial, and evade and boost added to their bar. And the generic we saw was i4. There’s probably still a lower initiative pilot, but even on a 1 I’d bet on not being able to fly 3.
Personally, I hope there are no super low Init Defenders. But admittedly, my reasoning is mostly thematic.
If Rudor is a pilot, as indicated in the 2.0 trailer, I believe his TIE Fighter incarnation is I 3
But his ability would be so bonkers on a defender that that wouldn't be an issue at all
Edited by ficklegreendice56 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:If Rudor is a pilot, as indicated in the 2.0 trailer, I believe his TIE Fighter incarnation is I 3
But his ability would be so bonkers on a defender that that wouldn't be an issue at all
Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
2 minutes ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
Agreed. If we get something lowre than than 4, it should be at a minimum an i2.
1 hour ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
You could say they...had the initiative to become defender pilots
And there is no greater initiative than 1. It goes first
Can't have more initiative than that!
Edited by ficklegreendice
2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:You could say they...had the initiative to become defender pilots
And there is no greater initiative than 1. It goes first
Can't have more initiative than that!
Though looking back I can think of where the justification for ps1 came from... sure, all Zaarin's pilots were good but the mooks they chose for your wingmen couldn't even survive in a Defender!
1 hour ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
True, but that doesn't mean they'd automatically be good in the new ship. It's not like a champion go kart driver is going to ace his first season in Formula 1 car. The PS1 guys are just getting used to the new handling of their vehicles - they'll work their way from Delta into Glaive soon enough (or die trying).
19 minutes ago, __underscore__ said:True, but that doesn't mean they'd automatically be good in the new ship. It's not like a champion go kart driver is going to ace his first season in Formula 1 car. The PS1 guys are just getting used to the new handling of their vehicles - they'll work their way from Delta into Glaive soon enough (or die trying).
Clearly, they didn't use the Combat Chamber to familiarize themselves with the controls like the flight officer suggests!
2 hours ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
They have specifically said that they changed the name Pilot Skill to Initiative because they wanted to divorce the number from the idea that low init = bad pilot
On 5/18/2018 at 4:17 PM, Aaron Foss said:It was explicitly stated via the FFGLive broadcaster account that the kits do not contain any quick build cards. It is reasonable to assume that not all of the quick builds / included upgrades for every expansion that existed prior to second edition has been finalized.
Yes. They have stated pretty clearly that the Quick Build cards will only feature upgrades from the expansion the ship comes in (and maybe the core set cards) so it makes complete sense that they won't be putting Quick Build cards into the conversion kits, because they don't have all the new cards that will come in the re-issue 2.0 packs done yet. It's disappointing, but it does make sense.
I'm hoping that whatever they provide as an option for getting the cards in a wave without having to buy new models will also include the Quick Build cards.
3 hours ago, That One Guy said:Personally, I hope there are no super low Init Defenders. But admittedly, my reasoning is mostly thematic.
I like this idea. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to apply this to interceptors as well.
6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:I think it's best if I try an analogy. Outrider was almost unique in its transformative power as a title. It took a ship from being a cheap, piddly little 2-dice pea-shooter, into potentially a 4-dice monster at an appropriately high cost. Versions with and without the title might as well have been two entirely separate ships. Now, in practice, non-Outrider YT-2400 were seldom flown, and even more rarely had success at large events.
But Outrider wasn't the only title like that: Punishing One was there with it. Similarly high cost, and also a dramatic change from 2 to 3 dice on a turret. A Jumpmaster with or without was a pretty dramatic difference. There weren't too many differences in top-table Punishing Ones, but Jumpmasters without PO could be quite varied. There were Bumpmasters. There were torpedo Scouts. There were support Manaroo builds.
Suppose then, in 2E, the Jumpmaster was made into a native 3-red ship, essentially the same offensive profile of the 2E YT-1300 or VT-49 Decimator. A rotatable double-arc for 3 dice. Naturally, one would assume that the cost of Jumpmasters would essentially include the baked-in cost of a Punishing One, and some ship archetypes would disappear. The old Parattanni list used a 28 point Manaroo with literally no upgrades beyond Attanni Mindlink. There's no way, if the cost of something like Punishing One was baked it, that a similar sort of hyper-efficient support ship would exist in such a 2E thought experiment. There's no way a Bumpmaster would be a cost-efficient ship in such a world. Just look at 1E, where titled Jumpmasters are NEVER used as dedicated blockers or support ships. Non-Punishing One Jumpmasters can be reasonably kitted out at around a third of a list. Punishing Ones? About half a list. There's a distinct difference between the character of a list with, say, two aces and a support Jumpmaster, and (at the risk of muddying the metaphor) a single ace and a Rear Admiral Chiraneau with Kylo and Emperor. It's still a quite support-y ship, but the list of a radically different character. Not better. Not worse. Different.
So let's bring this back to the YT-2400. The essential effect of the Outrider title (a 2-dice ship goes up to a 4-dice one) is now a part of the core of the ship in 2E. That probably makes for neat builds when you want a ship at half your list. Outrider title might do something interesting and new. But it'll be interesting and new *ONLY* in the "this ship is half my list and does a lot of damage" side. The capacity for a bump-YT-2400, or a support one is essentially dead. There's no way that a 4-dice mobile arc ship is going to be cheap enough to be a strange little support ship. Even with Expert Handling making the barrel roll white, even with new titles. It's not going to be the least-damaging part of a list with two aces. C'mon.
For better or worse, 2E is eliminating the (niche and never successful) role for a YT-2400 as a low-cost, low-damage, highly nimble large base. How is that not clear? Low-damage is gone, and obviously low-cost will go with it, or else any semblance of balance is just completely out the window. It's probably for the best (the low cost of the no-title Jumpmaster was kind of a massive problem in X-Wing 1E, despite no-title YT-2400s never really making much happen), and surely YT-2400s designed to do damage will be fine.
But there's a twinge of regret for an oddball archetype which was always kinda cool, even if it was never that good. But what really irks me is the "we don't know that, because points haven't been released." That's just so obviously wrong. Yes I ******* do know. You need the points to know that a 4-dice primary is going to cost more than a 2-dice one? Ok.
nice to know you have future sight, for me I will wait to see everything in its entirety before I decide that the yt-2400 will be a one trick pony with no variant roles.
36 minutes ago, Skandranon said:nice to know you have future sight, for me I will wait to see everything in its entirety before I decide that the yt-2400 will be a one trick pony with no variant roles.
Whatever varient roles it has, a 4 attack guarntees it will ALSO do damage. common sense says it will pay for the ability to do damage, that a more specialized support ship will not.
1 hour ago, Skandranon said:nice to know you have future sight, for me I will wait to see everything in its entirety before I decide that the yt-2400 will be a one trick pony with no variant roles.
I do have some degree of future sight. It's called common sense. Good to know you don't have that.
Is it technically possible that there is some configuration which radically reduces the offense of the ship? In the sense that it's possible to win a lottery, sure. But again, common sense suggest that, if there was so dramatic a configuration available, this would be the kind of thing they'd have shown us in a livesteam where they showed us every generic and every dial, along with many titles, and both XG-1 and OS-1 configurations for Starwings. Almost surely (a Statistics term for "it's never going to happen," Outrider isn't going to lower the red dice: the Outrider was known in Legends Canon for having bigger guns than a standard YT-2400, so there's no realistic way the title reduces offense.
47 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:Whatever varient roles it has, a 4 attack guarntees it will ALSO do damage. common sense says it will pay for the ability to do damage, that a more specialized support ship will not.
3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:I do have some degree of future sight. It's called common sense. Good to know you don't have that.
Is it technically possible that there is some configuration which radically reduces the offense of the ship? In the sense that it's possible to win a lottery, sure. But again, common sense suggest that, if there was so dramatic a configuration available, this would be the kind of thing they'd have shown us in a livesteam where they showed us every generic and every dial, along with many titles, and both XG-1 and OS-1 configurations for Starwings. Almost surely (a Statistics term for "it's never going to happen," Outrider isn't going to lower the red dice: the Outrider was known in Legends Canon for having bigger guns than a standard YT-2400, so there's no realistic way the title reduces offense.
Please do tell me what the pilots (besides dash) and title in 2.0 do? Also does he still have a cannon slot, would a ionizer turret or other specialty kind of ship be possible with this ship? I really want to know
1 minute ago, Skandranon said:
Please do tell me what the pilots (besides dash) and title in 2.0 do? Also does he still have a cannon slot, would a ionizer turret or other specialty kind of ship be possible with this ship? I really want to know
Ghost in 1E has Ion Control if it has an Ion Cannon Turret, or stress control from Chopper, or damage mitigation from Kanan.
None of that changes the fact that it pays the price for having a 4-dice primary, and thus there are certain functions it won't perform as well as other ships. R3-A2 Ezra is simply a better stress-dealer than Chopper, even if Chopper gives you an option in a list where you can't otherwise afford a 22-point dedicated ship.
Look, I've flown Ghost/Fenn all of four times, and I certainly used the Lothal Rebel to throw blocks. But not at all in the same way that a Contracted Scout throws blocks. Boba Fett will sometimes equip an Ion Cannon, because it's fairly cheap and is really strong in limited number of matchups which are against Miranda or Nym. That doesn't change Boba's primary role as a damage dealer, because you still have to pay damage-dealer points for him.
33 minutes ago, Skandranon said:
Please do tell me what the pilots (besides dash) and title in 2.0 do? Also does he still have a cannon slot, would a ionizer turret or other specialty kind of ship be possible with this ship? I really want to know
Prediction: No cannon slot, 1 crew, no gunner slot. Illicit and 2 modification slots.
20 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:Prediction: No cannon slot, 1 crew, no gunner slot. Illicit and 2 modification slots.
illicit cause you think no more smuggler compartment as a upgrade or because of the rebels episode?
3 minutes ago, Skandranon said:illicit cause you think no more smuggler compartment as a upgrade or because of the rebels episode?
4 minutes ago, Skandranon said:illicit cause you think no more smuggler compartment as a upgrade or because of the rebels episode?
Snuggling compartments is pretty much just a slot fix card. With the app, they can handle that directly.
7 hours ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
5 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:I like this idea. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to apply this to interceptors as well.
Just worth repeating:
Initiative is not pilot skill.
22 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:
Snuggling compartments is pretty much just a slot fix card. With the app, they can handle that directly.
-giggles at "snuggling compartments"-
9 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:If Rudor is a pilot, as indicated in the 2.0 trailer, I believe his TIE Fighter incarnation is I 3
But his ability would be so bonkers on a defender that that wouldn't be an issue at all
Valen Rudor is a Defender pilot? What's the ability?
7 hours ago, That One Guy said:Valen Rudor is a Defender pilot? What's the ability?
We haven't seen the pilot card yet, just the defender base in the trailer. I really hope his ability is the same as the tie fighter...
17 hours ago, That One Guy said:Oh, I just mean it always bugged me to have a PS1 Defender pilot because candidates are selected from interceptor pilots, who in turn had to be selected from TIE pilots who lived long enough to BECOME interceptor pilots.
It's a good thing it's not called pilot skill anymore then.
It's initiative, and that's why they changed the name as they fealt it clashed with designing high skill pilots that operate at low initiative.
So boom 2.0 fixed what bothered you with a simple name change!
11 minutes ago, Icelom said:It's a good thing it's not called pilot skill anymore then.
It's initiative, and that's why they changed the name as they fealt it clashed with designing high skill pilots that operate at low initiative.
So boom 2.0 fixed what bothered you with a simple name change!
Regardless of what we call it, I'd still like to see them have a bit more dignity.