If the Punisher gets reload and keeps its system slot, it would be interesting if Long Range Scanners made it over into 2.0 as well. With the changes to Fire Control System and most ordnance not discarding the lock to use them, a combination of LRS and FCS would mean the Punisher would be able to have both focus and a re-roll without having to worry about moving back out of range to re-lock after firing the ordnance.

Of course, there's also the possibility that LRS will be converted to a system, thus preventing that combo. In that case, the Punisher would turn into an interesting hit-and-run option (assuming it retains boost). Lock on, charge in and attack. If lock is used, boost back out of range and lock again using LRS.

17 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

What you guys think of a new dial?

Or is the base size increase sufficient speed boost?

The dial will be hard to determine. I hear that they are making a lot of ship dials worse. I don't think they will make the Tie Punisher's dial worse, but they aren't going to make it great. If the new goal is everyone has an OK dial, but not great or terrible, then it will see some changes, but nothing too crazy.

On 5/11/2018 at 3:02 AM, Commander Kaine said:

So, what are your hopes and dreams for the sexiest ship (It is the sexiest ship, your argument is flawed, you are wrong, why don't you read my points, you are misrepresenting my case, see? I thought as much. Isn't it nicer to agree?) for 2.0?

Oh you mean THAT beautiful, sleek ship...

I hoped they "forgot" to include it in 2.0 conversion kits actually.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

The dial will be hard to determine. I hear that they are making a lot of ship dials worse. I don't think they will make the Tie Punisher's dial worse, but they aren't going to make it great. If the new goal is everyone has an OK dial, but not great or terrible, then it will see some changes, but nothing too crazy.

For what it does, the Punisher doesn't have a terrible dial. I honestly think it should stay about where it is. It doesn't have a Lambda dial, it will be going a bit faster than it did, and it still feels similar to the Bomber, which is appropriate. I'm pretty curious to see what the ship's ability is, though. I hope that it isn't just a repeat of the Bomber's ability and that is a more specialized Ordinance carrier.

1 hour ago, Praetorate of the Empire said:

For what it does, the Punisher doesn't have a terrible dial. I honestly think it should stay about where it is. It doesn't have a Lambda dial, it will be going a bit faster than it did, and it still feels similar to the Bomber, which is appropriate. I'm pretty curious to see what the ship's ability is, though. I hope that it isn't just a repeat of the Bomber's ability and that is a more specialized Ordinance carrier.

It has a worse dial than the scurrg even though it doesn't have a turret.. and ties are supposed to be relatively agile compared to similar craft.

21 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

It has a worse dial than the scurrg even though it doesn't have a turret.. and ties are supposed to be relatively agile compared to similar craft.

The Skurrg's dial will be gutted. It's way too good for all the stuff it has.

On 5/13/2018 at 7:03 AM, heychadwick said:

The dial will be hard to determine. I hear that they are making a lot of ship dials worse. I don't think they will make the Tie Punisher's dial worse, but they aren't going to make it great. If the new goal is everyone has an OK dial, but not great or terrible, then it will see some changes, but nothing too crazy.

From what I've seen, seems the dials are getting better (X-Wing, Advanced) as examples. Plus, now ships like the X-Wing and even Y-Wing (surprised me) can perform a barrel roll, which early in 1.0 was only really found on small agile no-shield carrying fighters. I argue the opposite will be the case (overall).

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

The Skurrg's dial will be gutted. It's way too good for all the stuff it has.

Maybe, we don't know. I have heard and agree that the Jumpmaster's dial will be dragged back to atmosphere, which is great.

On 5/13/2018 at 8:13 AM, Commander Kaine said:

It has a worse dial than the scurrg even though it doesn't have a turret.. and ties are supposed to be relatively agile compared to similar craft.

Yeah, but it is massive for a TIE Fighter, carries a lot of ordinance, and likely has some serious engines for forward propulsion. Really, if you take the 4 and 5 straight and white 4K off a Defender, you have nearly the same dial. Plus, I don't want the Punisher to get highly costed for its dial, I just want to load it with ordinance.

And I agree with @heychadwick. The Scurgg will get pared down to a mortal level.

Been thinking about it and I've noticed that the Y wing now comes with a bomb loadout as standard but no additional rules like the TIE Bomber, meaning it's more of a jack of all trades. Considering the TIE Bomber has a special rule relating to bombs, I do think the Punisher will have a rule relating specifically to torps and missiles. Perhaps it will have two versions, so two generic ships both at initiative 2 but one has a bomb special rule whilst the other has a torp/missile special rule? Would match Deathrain and Redline if they did that.

Possible ideas:
1. It receives a cost reduction on torps and missiles?
2. It naturally regenerates one munition charge a turn? (not bombs though, we don't need another bomblet generator)
3. Inbuilt guidance chips or version thereof? (Change a hit to crit for example)
4. It acquires a lock on a target within it's bullseye firing at at the beginning of the engagement phase?
5. Deals additional damage depending on the base size of the target? (Small = 1 / Medium = 2 / Large = hits to crits / Epic = Crits go through shields?
6. Has Rebel Nym ability but can only hold a bomb for one turn?
7. Built in deflective plating?

2 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

Possible ideas:
1. It receives a cost reduction on torps and missiles?
2. It naturally regenerates one munition charge a turn? (not bombs though, we don't need another bomblet generator)
3. Inbuilt guidance chips or version thereof? (Change a hit to crit for example)
4. It acquires a lock on a target within it's bullseye firing at at the beginning of the engagement phase?
5. Deals additional damage depending on the base size of the target? (Small = 1 / Medium = 2 / Large = hits to crits / Epic = Crits go through shields?
6. Has Rebel Nym ability but can only hold a bomb for one turn?
7. Built in deflective plating?

Interesting and props for your thought process...

I think it should be tough and fast, not very maneuverable though... maybe it can really unload (double tap, auto target lock, or something) when it gets a target in its bullseye (large bases, certainly not aces) as that will not be easy, unless it's a large base, which these ships should have been designed to take out, obliterate, punish...

I am going with a tempered optimism. I think they can make the Punisher viable without special rules. I will expect none and be happy if there are instead of expecting something special and getting nothing.

4 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I am going with a tempered optimism. I think they can make the Punisher viable without special rules. I will expect none and be happy if there are instead of expecting something special and getting nothing.

Maybe they could. But they shouldn't. Plus the Bomber has special abilities, it should have to.

I am really surprised that this ship has managed to maintain this many threads. When it first came out it wasn't much liked due to its bloated appearance. Personally I still really don't care for it and would prefer love to instead be directed to the humble tie bomber.

Do you all honestly like the design or is it just that it was hated, so you love it because it is ugly and weird. Ie cheering for the underdog?

With the name Punisher, I think the thoughts on the ship after the 2.0 release should be, "yeah, it's moderately tough, but you can take it out fairly easily with a few good shots. Just, DON'T get in it's bullseye arc, or you can just remove that ship from the mat, it'll flat out obliterate you."

9 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Maybe they could. But they shouldn't. Plus the Bomber has special abilities, it should have to.

I hope you aren't too disappointed with the v2 version. I can already see a bunch of angry threads about how the Tie Punisher isn't good enough in v2. I don't think they are going to go too crazy with fixes.

6 minutes ago, william1134 said:

I am really surprised that this ship has managed to maintain this many threads. When it first came out it wasn't much liked due to its bloated appearance. Personally I still really don't care for it and would prefer love to instead be directed to the humble tie bomber.

Do you all honestly like the design or is it just that it was hated, so you love it because it is ugly and weird. Ie cheering for the underdog?

I don't think it's too ugly. I mean, it's not pretty, but I'm OK with that. After that, I,do like to make ships work that others say are horrible. I have been effective with a lot of ships that people write off often enough.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

I hope you aren't too disappointed with the v2 version. I can already see a bunch of angry threads about how the Tie Punisher isn't good enough in v2. I don't think they are going to go too crazy with fixes.

Well... If it doesn't get an improvement along the lines of the xwing, they can go back to the drawing board right now.

10 minutes ago, william1134 said:

I am really surprised that this ship has managed to maintain this many threads. When it first came out it wasn't much liked due to its bloated appearance. Personally I still really don't care for it and would prefer love to instead be directed to the humble tie bomber.

Do you all honestly like the design or is it just that it was hated, so you love it because it is ugly and weird. Ie cheering for the underdog?

How dare you good sir?

Fat shaming ships is not cool.

But, I actually like the ship. I always liked the bomber, and I bought three in my first week of the game.

But then I saw my darling, and I knew nothing will ever be the same. It's a bomber, but better and bigger. It looks intimidating,has a system slot.. it's great!

Does the underdog thing count? Well, no not really. Not for me anyways. It's good that I don't sound so entitled as the rebels begging for an u-wing fix (that ship was fine. I'm not gonna feel bad because you have too many options that are better) because there is a greater need here.

25 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Well... If it doesn't get an improvement along the lines of the xwing, they can go back to the drawing board right now.

Well....what does that mean, exactly?

The very game is named X-wing and the ship is very versatile. The Imp ships are supposed to be very focused on specific roles. So....will it be as all around good as the X-wing? Probably not. I don't think it should be, though. Balanced? Yes. Competitive? Yes.

Let's look at a genetic Tie Punisher. If it doesn't have any linked actions, but is priced well and all the ordnance it can take comes very cheap, is that still worthwhile for you? There are the new Systems that we don't really know about. Already FCS seems great for the Punisher as you can reroll one die and keep the TL....or spend the TL and maybe blast your target with one shot. Will this be a huge letdown for you? Will you consider the ship terrible?

I think v2 will still have the issue of low PS (Init) still having a hard time getting TL. I think it's good for the game. I don't think the Tie Punisher is going to get some super crazy ability.

I think, though, that that is similar to the X-wing. It has a better dial, but there is no way the Medium based Punisher should have a similar dial to the X-wing. Do you? There are S Foils, but I don't think Punishers will get something similar. I don't think they should. Tie Fighters don't have Linked Actions. Does the Punisher need them to avoid being a failure?

I think asking the niche Punisher to be as good as the workhorse if the Rebel fleet is asking too much. It's the namesake of the game. I think the Punisher will be really good at firing ordnance, but I dont believe it needs special rules or Linked Actions to do it. I think expecting it to have all that is setting yourself up for disappointment. I do think the Tie Punisher is going to be much better and competitive in v2. I just don't think it needs to be as amazing as some people are suggesting to get there.

1 minute ago, heychadwick said:

Well....what does that mean, exactly?

The very game is named X-wing and the ship is very versatile. The Imp ships are supposed to be very focused on specific roles. So....will it be as all around good as the X-wing? Probably not. I don't think it should be, though. Balanced? Yes. Competitive? Yes.

Let's look at a genetic Tie Punisher. If it doesn't have any linked actions, but is priced well and all the ordnance it can take comes very cheap, is that still worthwhile for you? There are the new Systems that we don't really know about. Already FCS seems great for the Punisher as you can reroll one die and keep the TL....or spend the TL and maybe blast your target with one shot. Will this be a huge letdown for you? Will you consider the ship terrible?

I think v2 will still have the issue of low PS (Init) still having a hard time getting TL. I think it's good for the game. I don't think the Tie Punisher is going to get some super crazy ability.

I think, though, that that is similar to the X-wing. It has a better dial, but there is no way the Medium based Punisher should have a similar dial to the X-wing. Do you? There are S Foils, but I don't think Punishers will get something similar. I don't think they should. Tie Fighters don't have Linked Actions. Does the Punisher need them to avoid being a failure?

I think asking the niche Punisher to be as good as the workhorse if the Rebel fleet is asking too much. It's the namesake of the game. I think the Punisher will be really good at firing ordnance, but I dont believe it needs special rules or Linked Actions to do it. I think expecting it to have all that is setting yourself up for disappointment. I do think the Tie Punisher is going to be much better and competitive in v2. I just don't think it needs to be as amazing as some people are suggesting to get there.

It kinda does need it tho.

The ship is way to similar to the bomber. A more expensive, tankier bomber was shown to be ineffective in 1.0

Even if ordnance is great by itself, that doesn't help the punisher compared to the bomber (even if both become better)

The ship needs a reason to be brought. Also, it deserves a ship ability, because imperials still don't have Astros or illicit or regen (probably).

I think we will get a ship ability, maybe to represent the truly magnificent number of ordnance the ship is able to carry. It is an "advanced" ship. It's a better bomber. The game should represent that somehow.

23 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

It kinda does need it tho.

The ship is way to similar to the bomber. A more expensive, tankier bomber was shown to be ineffective in 1.0

Even if ordnance is great by itself, that doesn't help the punisher compared to the bomber (even if both become better)

The ship needs a reason to be brought. Also, it deserves a ship ability, because imperials still don't have Astros or illicit or regen (probably).

I think we will get a ship ability, maybe to represent the truly magnificent number of ordnance the ship is able to carry. It is an "advanced" ship. It's a better bomber. The game should represent that somehow.

How can they make the Tie Punisher different than the Tie Bomber?

Well, to start with we know next to nothing about the v2 Tie Bomber. It's quite possible that they change it to be more about.....bombs? The number of slots if different types can make a huge difference. It's possible the Tie Bomber gets more Bomb slits at the expense of other ordnance.

There is also the base cost of Ordnance. The Proton Torpedo might be 4 pts for a Bomber, but only 2 pts for the Punisher. It could be super easy to just adjust pricing of upgrades to make a huge difference. Bombs will probably cost more on the Punisher.

The Reload action can be given to the Tie Punisher, but not the Bomber. It makes sense and I can see it.

Reinforce can be given to the Punisher. It's meant to tank incoming fire to get into the thick of it. Only makes sense. Not for the Tie Bomber, though.

Medium base will make a difference, too. Surely a lot more hull.

The System slot will be big, too. Just look at FCS.

Boost will be there and even the possibility of SLAM (if it exists in the game).

All these are normal rules changes that can really set the Tie Punisher apart in the game from the Tie Bomber. It can also make it much better, too. I don't feel a special rule is required to make the Tie Punisher work.

5 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

How can they make the Tie Punisher different than the Tie Bomber?

Well, to start with we know next to nothing about the v2 Tie Bomber. It's quite possible that they change it to be more about.....bombs? The number of slots if different types can make a huge difference. It's possible the Tie Bomber gets more Bomb slits at the expense of other ordnance.

There is also the base cost of Ordnance. The Proton Torpedo might be 4 pts for a Bomber, but only 2 pts for the Punisher. It could be super easy to just adjust pricing of upgrades to make a huge difference. Bombs will probably cost more on the Punisher.

The Reload action can be given to the Tie Punisher, but not the Bomber. It makes sense and I can see it.

Reinforce can be given to the Punisher. It's meant to tank incoming fire to get into the thick of it. Only makes sense. Not for the Tie Bomber, though.

Medium base will make a difference, too. Surely a lot more hull.

The System slot will be big, too. Just look at FCS.

Boost will be there and even the possibility of SLAM (if it exists in the game).

All these are normal rules changes that can really set the Tie Punisher apart in the game from the Tie Bomber. It can also make it much better, too. I don't feel a special rule is required to make the Tie Punisher work.

I think Red reload has been confirmed on the bomber

9 minutes ago, CMDR Ytterium said:

I think Red reload has been confirmed on the bomber

Ah, well, scratch that. Or...maybe it's a WHITE action to Reload on a Punisher!

13 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

How can they make the Tie Punisher different than the Tie Bomber?

reinforce, full stop

Punisher always should've had it given its role as essentially a bunker buster that just plows through fortified emplacements

built in trajectory simulator would also be super neat to break up all the swarms that'll most likely be cropping up

also, the punisher is beautiful. It just needs a better paintjob

2 hours ago, william1134 said:

Do you all honestly like the design or is it just that it was hated, so you love it because it is ugly and weird. Ie cheering for the underdog?

The ship is very 1990's to me, so there's a little nostalgia going on here for me. Yes, she may not be pretty in the conventional way, but sometimes that makes her a little more appealing; she's got more going on beneath the surface that's worth a little exploration.

I agree with the points made so far, about how we might see the new version: beefy and agile, but not fast and if it gets you in it's Bulls Eye it's going to punch you so hard. Cross your fingers and your eyes that we get a sneak peek this Friday when FFG does its Twitch stream unboxing of at least one of the conversion kits!