Using the rule of bank, whenever you run out of a resource then it's considered depleted until change is made, is it possible to run out Toads?

Crazy talk you say? I was thinking of a hypothetical, but realistic enough situation where someone cast Hydra on a Random spell and then if enough people rolled 1's.... what if there wasn't enough Toad figs to go around in a 5+ game? Would that person simply not be a Toad because there wasn't enough Toad mojo to go around? It's astronomical, but possible, just curious what people thought?

inkblob said:

I think you just follow the rule about component limitation. If there are no Gold Coins/Strength/Craft/Life/Fate counters available, you can't get anything.

Just wonder what to do to determine which Characters are not toaded in such a weird situation. Roll dice? It's Talisman!

It happened me once that 3 Characters out of 4 have been simultaneously Toaded thanks to Random+Hydra Spell. That was so incredible that nobody will forget that situation in the entire life, no matter if we eventually stop playing Talisman. The nasty thing was that somebody drew Fate Bound just some Turns before and all Characters had no Fate to spend. But that everybody rolled a 1 was crazy!

I've had it happen but only 2 people got toaded due to rolls

but i would assume that it would be the first 4 going in clock wise order with the next player, or that you would make a 5th toad

Wow, so not that hypothetical afterall! If we're limiting the Toad pool also by using one as the Toad King, that could have bearing. I had the situation where there was 2 Toads on the board at the same time as well and that was fairly stunning, I can imagine 3 on the board... it sucked for one of the guys, the next turn he was Toaded again

It happened just last night that when someone cast Hydra on Toadify, turned four of us into toads. That made us look through the rules a second time and if we read it correctly after you all of your items and loose your followers, you can simply move back to it and pick them up? We couldn't find any rules about a toad not picking up items or followers.

Hehe...an interesting question! I would have to say that I would not allow someone to get away with not being Toaded because of a lack of figures. In order to stop such a thing happening again, might I suggest you print out a few of these as "Emergency Toad Tokens"!

drifter22840 said:

Hey, this is not possible. Toadify is cast on Characters that are about to engage in battle. If you cast Hydra Spell it's only possible that 2 Characters get Toaded (= the Characters that are currently involved in battle). Other Characters are not legal targets. Random may work, but it's pretty hard that 4+ players get the same roll (a 1) and can't do anything to adjust the result.

Don't forget that Hydra Spell must be cast before the die is rolled to determine the effect of a Spell.

Toads can't take Followers, Objects or Spells, and Points of Strength/Craft gained as a Toad are lost when you return to normal. Just look at the Toad Cards: no space for Objects and Followers there.

The Toadify Spell was cast by a character about to engage another in combat. A character not engaged in the combat cast the Hydra spell. The qualifications for the Toadify spell to be cast were met, so I believe this means that even though Hydra spell lets the caster pick targets, it would still only enable the caster to pick targets "About to engage in combat"?

drifter22840 said:

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Since no more than 2 Characters can be "about to engage in combat" at the same time, with Hydra Spell you may have max. 2 simultaneous toadings. Then, you're going to see a bloody "toad-fight"!

You can duplicate Spells with Hydra how many times you like, up to the number of players, but targets need to be valid ones.

Thing I don't like about the Hydra Spell and which could be used to argue you can in fact Toadify everyone in the game is that last bit: "..., ignoring Region and timing restrictions." Toadify has a timing restriction, "Cast on a character or creature you are about to engage in battle". If you ignore timing (about to engage in battle), you're left with a Spell that can be cast on a character.

From what i understand of the hydra card.

It ignores words such as ( cast at the start of the turn, cast before battle etc)

That means that if somebody is casting Toadify, then the person who cast the hydra spell, can choose all his other opponents to cast toadify on it.

He can also choose to cast it on himself, but that;s not wise

On top of that: from what i understand...( you can't copy a spell that you have cast yourself. ( it's meant to cast on other characters ( except if a opponent has cast the spell, then you can cast it with hydra also on yourself.

Dam said:

Whoah, as usual you're more into the wording than myself. This statement on Hydra Spell makes things really difficult not only because of Toadify. This opens a ton of issues and game problems.

Just consider Teleport. Teleport is cast on a Character so it can be "copied" with Hydra. What the heck is going to happen? If you ignore timing and region restrictions, you might move your Character in another's player Turn (!) and even in the Inner Region (!!!!).

And what about Fireball? Can a Character duplicate Fireball and cast it on one or more Characters he's not engaging in combat? Take 1 life from EVERY Character on the board by using Hydra on a Fireball Spell? and Finger of Death???

Help, I see a big loophole coming!

We took hydra, quite simply, with its “ignore region and timing” to mean, whomever ONE person you want, wherever you want, whenever you want ignoring any restrictions… at all. Not quite as written, but simpler. Someone else gets toaded, teleported, finger of death-ed, wherever they are, period…

You do get the rather odd combos, but we find it’s better than the 20+ min arguments by stubborn players.

It’s one card, a powerful card, and, well, we like the chaos it makes. Nothing like the original caster taking 3 turns due to a spell, and another person casts Hydra, getting 3 MORE turns after that, and the other players go “Lets go make ourselves some burgers while we wait” and some such.

Hydra spell wouldn't work with the Teleport spell.

this is because only one person can be rolling the dice for movement per turn.

I think folk are looking for ways to break the Hydra spell, make it's power or effect more than it is. It simply will not work with every spell in the deck and rightly so.

Most spells in the deck have a trigger and an affect. Before appling the Hydra spell you need to consider the trigger. If the trigger is one of timing such as cast before you move, or if its one of Region such as 'cast on any character in the same Region' then that trigger is ignored by the Hydra spell. If the trigger on the other hand is a precursory action, such as 'before you roll the dice for movement, or cast on any character about to engage in battle' then those triggers cannot be ignored, only those characters who are fulfilling the trigger can have the spell affect them.

The Thing In The Attic said:

Mmmh. I think that you can "stretch" the rules without too much fuss.

Even if only one player at a time is allowed to roll for movement, the "hydra-teleportaed" characters could teleport out of their turn. Of course such character WOULDN'T encounter the location they teleport to. The active character should be allowed to teleport last.

Usually, the rule we follow is: "Unless it would cause serious ill feeling amongst players, the COOLEST interpretation of the rules is the one that takes precedence". So if a hydra spell would make the best story after the game, and be the most fun in the moment, the loosest interpretation possible to toadify as many characters as possible is the way to go. The guy at the gaming store where I bought Talisman back in the '80s said it well: "You're not so much role playing your characters in Talisman as cheering them on". The biggest thrill I get out of the game is the narrative stream that comes out of a play-by-play. That way I don't mind when I lose (which is almost all the time)

The Hydra Spell does affect the Toadify Spell !

The player who casts Hydra decides which other players are affected by Toadify (probably not himself!). The player who cast Toadify then rolls a die for each other player nominated by the player who cast Hydra.

"Treat the Spell as if it was cast individually on each character, ignoring Region and timing restrictions ." - this is the important text relevant to the above example. The timing restriction in this case is: "Cast on a creature or character you are about to engage in battle." This is the part of the Toadify Spell which is ignored for the purposes of the Hydra Spell. Therefore, more than one player can be affected by the Toadify Spell.

Elliott.

talismanamsilat said:

The Teleport and Temporal Warp Spells are also affected by the Hydra Spell.

These Spells are cast on a character at the start of his turn. Therefore, we ignore timing restrictions again! Treat the Teleport and Temporal Warp Spells as though they are cast at the start of each characters turn affected by Hydra.

Ell.

I would say the caster of the Hydra spell chooses who will be effected by it then the effect happens then after the Hydra spell has done its effects you go back to the normal turns.

So it is possible everyone can teleport and be toaded.. Better hang on those counters hehehe

ok, I have one dubt: 4 players game, A casts Toadify to B, and B casts Hydra spell to everyone else except him. so A, C and D are affected by toadify...but what about B? he was the first target and I think he is affected by Toadify (casted by A) even if he uses Hydra spell, right?

Ugh, I'm liking the Hydra Spell less and less, quagmire sucking deeper and deeper.

Thanks for clarifying Toadify and Teleport, Elliott.

I assume that also Fireball/Finger of Death can be easily duplicated (in some situations, the latter can result in a real carnage if 2-3 players have by chance only 2 Lives left).

I don't mind a single Spell with such powers, but FFG must not introduce some really unbalanced Spell(s) that can really be a problem if mass-duplicated.

Even more use with Hydra Spell is when one casts Finger of Death or Soul Shatter and it smacks everyone for 2 points of damage... just had that one sweep a game killing a player.