40 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

I say use this one:

?

And I would say yes, please ?

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

Well, we saw in TLJ that post-Endor, lasers arc through space on a ballistic trajectory.

That didn't happen. I don't know what you're talking about.

*DENIAL*

In all seriousness, though, I DID like that it shows fighters can fly close enough to capital ships to penetrate their shields. Explains how Rebel fighters could knock out the shield towers of Star Destroyers while the shields were still up.

Whoops, double-post.

I really hope we get a re-sculpt. Of any version really, as long its updated. I'm not a fan of the original.

On 5/10/2018 at 9:27 AM, Wiredin said:

Anyone happen to know what the thing in front of the T-47 is? the thing that looks like the love child of a V-Wing and a Speeder Bike?

4 hours ago, Ambaryerno said:

In all seriousness, though, I DID like that it shows fighters can fly close enough to capital ships to penetrate their shields. Explains how Rebel fighters could knock out the shield towers of Star Destroyers while the shields were still up.

Well, those domes on top of ISDs are not shield projectors nor are they shield generators. At least, initially back during the Original Trilogy they weren't. All the design notes back them had them identified as sensor arrays, which would make sense why they had the shape they did (just like real-world arrays) and why they'd be positioned high up and above the main hull.

Of course, during the Battle of Endor we see some of Green Squadron's A-Wings barrage those domes with a volley of missiles, at which point it blows up, and then we see an officer on the bridge of the Executor shout something like "we've lost main deflectors!" This led the fandom to assume causation where the script had only intended correlation. Those domes were destroyed because the shields had failed and left them vulnerable. It was not the destruction of that dome that caused the shields to fail.

The Executor's shields were brought down by a full-on assault from Madine's task force, which included no fewer than eight Mon Calamari warships that had been pummeling the SSD. You can find deleted scenes on YouTube of Madine swiveling around in a Mon Cal captain's chair, and you can still see over half a dozen MC80 ships surrounding the Executor in the background of the scenes that remained.

The original storyboards had called for the battle with the Executor to be a fully-flushed minor plot point of the Battle of Endor, which would have included more scenes of Madine's task force bringing down it's front deflector shields, an assault on the sensor arrays by Green Squadron (port array) and Blue Squadron (starboard array), and then the fighter assault across the bow to strafe the bridge. Deleted scenes of B-Wings and Sullustans in the cockpit of B-Wings exist as well, and were to be a part of this assault. Arvel's "sacrifice" into the bridge wasn't even intentional. He and the other fighters racing across the Executor were merely trying to get an attack vector to start strafing the bridge, but his ship is hit and he loses partial control, which is the point he attempts to at least careen his fighter into the bridge rather than smashing somewhere else. This is why his ship is spinning so vigorously on its approach. So it was one part accident, one part luck. But one of the reason's Arvel's fighter was able to get through all the "forward firepower" was because Blue and Green squad had knocked out the sensor arrays and disrupted the Executor's targeting abilities, coupled with Madine's MC80s have ruthlessly targeted the dorsal gun ports of the SSD after it's sheilds had dropped.


Of course, for time, effort, money, or simplicity all of that was dropped from RotJ ultimately, so you end up with:
Ackbar: Concentrate on that SSD!
Two A-Wings: Blow up dome
Imp Officer: We've lost front deflectors!
Piett: Intensify forward firepower, I don't want anything to get through!
Arvel: AaaAAAAAaaaaGggggGGHH!!
Executor: crashes into DSII


Which leads so many to assume that the sensor domes were shield generators/projectors (which they later were retconned into being, I think via WEG, Decipher's CCG, or the technical manual -- not sure who did it first). It also leads people to critique the SSD as having been killed by three A-Wings, which is a gross oversimplification. We only really see three A-Wing's engaging the SSD, but a lot more was going on offscreen as part of that battle.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Well, those domes on top of ISDs are not shield projectors nor are they shield generators. At least, initially back during the Original Trilogy they weren't. All the design notes back them had them identified as sensor arrays, which would make sense why they had the shape they did (just like real-world arrays) and why they'd be positioned high up and above the main hull.

Yeah, I read Saxton back in the day, too (although I VEHEMENTLY disagree with his nomenclature. Star Destroyer is a PROPER NOUN, so these are not "destroyers" in the conventional sense. And his Endor Holocaust ignores or willfully misinterprets a number of on-screen facts). And yeah it makes sense. Especially in light of Johnston et. al.'s original design notes.

However, how TLJ indirectly addressed shields ALSO makes a lot of sense, too, and helps explain why starfighters are still necessary in starship combat in a way loosely analogous to how airpower changed naval warfare.

4 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

Yeah, I read Saxton back in the day, too (although I VEHEMENTLY disagree with his nomenclature. Star Destroyer is a PROPER NOUN, so these are not "destroyers" in the conventional sense. And his Endor Holocaust ignores or willfully misinterprets a number of on-screen facts). And yeah it makes sense. Especially in light of Johnston et. al.'s original design notes.

However, how TLJ indirectly addressed shields ALSO makes a lot of sense, too, and helps explain why starfighters are still necessary in starship combat in a way loosely analogous to how airpower changed naval warfare.

Although that was one thing I didn't really understand about TLJ. Small ships are, and always have been, a threat to capital ships. We bring in this dreadnought to bombard the Resistance base. Let's make sure to keep the entire rest of the fleet as far from the dreadnought as possible while still being in the same system, to make sure we don't accidentally offer anti-fighter support should it be attacked!

Looked to me like military leadership within the First Order is about on par with the leadership of General Binks. Though Captain Moden Canady seemed pretty competent, from what little we got to see of him. I guess it was just a lucky thing for the Resistance that his commanding officer was an imbecile.

19 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I guess it was just a lucky thing for the Resistance that his commanding officer was an imbecile.

Hux's gross ineptitude has gone from classic villain hubris to embarrassing comedic buffonery. And not embarrassing in the sense that Hux himself should be embarrassed, but like an "I'm embarrassed as an audience member trying to find any plausibility or suspense in this inept nonsense." It's like watching Elmer Fudd command a ship of Wil E Coyote pups trying to catch the Roadrunner (read: Poe).

Vader routinely used to strangle competent officers for far, far less. For someone with such a fetish for his grandpa (despite allegedly hating the past and wanting to make his own path? Uh, okay...), you'd think Ren would have Force Choked Hux about two gazillion times already...


And not's even like it's just Hux. Like Captain "we should have scrambled fighters minutes ago!" is just as worthless. Rolls in with his "fleet killing" cannon that takes minutes to recharge. First volley he fires at a stationary base being evacuated instead of the Resistance flagship which is right there. The Raddus is then able to skirt away before the Dreadnaught can power back up. Uhhhhh, why not just obliterate the Raddus first, THEN power up and shoot the stationary base that isn't going anywhere and has no place to send people once the Raddus is debris.

And Captain Phasma, Queen Facist Loyalty, like just rolls over in TFA and shuts of Star Killer's shields??! Uh, what? Would there have been anything more out of character she could have done? And had she not done it, the Resistance would have been wiped out because it's not like Han and Finn had any f'in plan other than stumbling around and instantly bumping into and effortlessly convincing the one person on base with the authority to shut the shield down.

TR-8R, captain shocky-stick baller yells at Finn about being a traitor, throws down his rifle, and whips out a baton. Uh, like if you hate this traitor so much, just @$&ing shoot him...

45 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

We only really see three A-Wing's engaging the SSD, but a lot more was going on offscreen as part of that battle.

The novel Lost Stars describes the nu-canon SSD battle in much more detail. This is also depicted on Thane Kyrrel's new pilot card.

If they're potentially adjusting the size of the silencer model (a massive visual change), then some alternate designs of EU ships should be totally within the realm of possibility.

40 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

And Captain Phasma, Queen Facist Loyalty, like just rolls over in TFA and shuts of Star Killer's shields??! Uh, what? Would there have been anything more out of character she could have done? And had she not done it, the Resistance would have been wiped out because it's not like Han and Finn had any f'in plan other than stumbling around and instantly bumping into and effortlessly convincing the one person on base with the authority to shut the shield down.

Phasma doesn't give a rat's *** about the First Order. She cares about surviving.

And I'm sorry, but two guys and a wookiee aren't very good odds.

43 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Phasma doesn't give a rat's *** about the First Order. She cares about surviving.

And I'm sorry, but two guys and a wookiee aren't very good odds.

Yeah. It would have been completely impossible for her to let them into a trap. Or signal someone using space gadgets. Or anything. It was a lazy Deus ex machina.

2 hours ago, Commander Kaine said:

Yeah. It would have been completely impossible for her to let them into a trap. Or signal someone using space gadgets. Or anything. It was a lazy Deus ex machina.

*Shrug* Sure.

5 hours ago, Bucknife said:

If they're potentially adjusting the size of the silencer model (a massive visual change), then some alternate designs of EU ships should be totally within the realm of possibility.

Where are people getting this from?

1 hour ago, mazz0 said:

Where are people getting this from?

It was said on the stream by one of the designers of 2.0 the day after announcement on the website.

Edit: If I remember correctly one of the guys asked if the Silencer would be Medium base because of its size and the designer said the model will be smaller and it will be small base.

Edited Thursday at 02:51 PM by Skitchx

35 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

It was said on the stream by one of the designers of 2.0 the day after announcement on the website.

Edit: If I remember correctly one of the guys asked if the Silencer would be Medium base because of its size and the designer said the model will be smaller and it will be small base.

Edited Thursday at 02:51 PM by Skitchx

Completely wrong direction! They should make the Silencer model bigger, and turn it into an Epic ship!

9 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Phasma doesn't give a rat's *** about the First Order. She cares about surviving.

Even if Phasma puts personal survival above the First Order, why would she have any reason to think lowering the shields would keep her alive? If she believed Finn & Friends were the sort that would torture her to eventually get her to lower the shields, they'd also be the type that would kill her right after she did so. If she believed that Finn & Friends were "good guys" who wouldn't resort to that, then she'd also have more reason to believe they wouldn't kill her if she didn't comply (she is, after all, their only chance at getting the shields down, so they need her). She also has to assume they want the shields down to launch an attack against the base, which means if she complies then her position becomes the least safe place in the Galaxy in the immediate future.

Couple this with the fact that if she really valued survival > First Order's cause, she would have defected long ago (as one of the highest-ranking officials, and as one of the "Triumverate," she certainly had ample means and opportunity to do so), or better yet, not even joined up at all (she was an eager volunteer to join the First Order, and not a kidnapped and brainwashed baby like most of the stormtroopers).


Also, all the official materials have routinely painted Phasma as being about fierce loyalty, even telling her soliders that they all share a sacred duty to the First Order above everything else, including above themselves and their comrades. So either her decision in TFA was just lazy and convenient out-of-character plot advancement, or else she's a cowardly hypocrite that yet again turns the First Order and it's leadership into embarrassingly incompetent goons. I'm not sure which is worse, but neither really makes the New Trilogy look very good in my opinion.

10 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Hux's gross ineptitude has gone from classic villain hubris to embarrassing comedic buffonery. And not embarrassing in the sense that Hux himself should be embarrassed, but like an "I'm embarrassed as an audience member trying to find any plausibility or suspense in this inept nonsense." It's like watching Elmer Fudd command a ship of Wil E Coyote pups trying to catch the Roadrunner (read: Poe).

Vader routinely used to strangle competent officers for far, far less. For someone with such a fetish for his grandpa (despite allegedly hating the past and wanting to make his own path? Uh, okay...), you'd think Ren would have Force Choked Hux about two gazillion times already...


And not's even like it's just Hux. Like Captain "we should have scrambled fighters minutes ago!" is just as worthless. Rolls in with his "fleet killing" cannon that takes minutes to recharge. First volley he fires at a stationary base being evacuated instead of the Resistance flagship which is right there. The Raddus is then able to skirt away before the Dreadnaught can power back up. Uhhhhh, why not just obliterate the Raddus first, THEN power up and shoot the stationary base that isn't going anywhere and has no place to send people once the Raddus is debris.

And Captain Phasma, Queen Facist Loyalty, like just rolls over in TFA and shuts of Star Killer's shields??! Uh, what? Would there have been anything more out of character she could have done? And had she not done it, the Resistance would have been wiped out because it's not like Han and Finn had any f'in plan other than stumbling around and instantly bumping into and effortlessly convincing the one person on base with the authority to shut the shield down.

TR-8R, captain shocky-stick baller yells at Finn about being a traitor, throws down his rifle, and whips out a baton. Uh, like if you hate this traitor so much, just @$&ing shoot him...

Yeah, it REALLY bothered me that upon bringing the Dreadnaught's cannon online, they wasted their opening salvo on the BASE. Which is very clearly nearly evacuated, and the Resistance's flagship is parked RIGHT THERE and helpless. Especially given the plot-mandated recharging time of the cannon.

Granted, the Resistance themselves weren't much better in the competency department. Holdo was a friggen' moron who did everything in her power to ensure a mutiny, and whoever requisitioned a fleet of SPACE BOMBERS that A) could only release its ordinance DOWN while maximizing their exposure to enemy fire, and B) can take out the entire formation by just blowing up ONE of them needs to be sacked. Now rather than bombs, had those bombers been laden with a @#$%-ton of proton torpedoes that could be unleashed in a glorious forward barrage, that would have been epic. And made a lot more frelling sense.

*SIGH* I miss Joe Johnston's work. His lore schematics for the original film were a thing of beauty.

5 minutes ago, Ambaryerno said:

Yeah, it REALLY bothered me that upon bringing the Dreadnaught's cannon online, they wasted their opening salvo on the BASE. Which is very clearly nearly evacuated, and the Resistance's flagship is parked RIGHT THERE and helpless. Especially given the plot-mandated recharging time of the cannon.

Granted, the Resistance themselves weren't much better in the competency department. Holdo was a friggen' moron who did everything in her power to ensure a mutiny, and whoever requisitioned a fleet of SPACE BOMBERS that A) could only release its ordinance DOWN while maximizing their exposure to enemy fire, and B) can take out the entire formation by just blowing up ONE of them needs to be sacked. Now rather than bombs, had those bombers been laden with a @#$%-ton of proton torpedoes that could be unleashed in a glorious forward barrage, that would have been epic. And made a lot more frelling sense.

*SIGH* I miss Joe Johnston's work. His lore schematics for the original film were a thing of beauty.

Not to mention, on a ship that size, all the weapons are going to be turbolasers that a single fighter can take out? They don't have any anti-fighter armament?

Now do we understand why removing Lancer-class frigates from the Star Wars universe was a bad idea?

11 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Not to mention, on a ship that size, all the weapons are going to be turbolasers that a single fighter can take out? They don't have any anti-fighter armament?

Now do we understand why removing Lancer-class frigates from the Star Wars universe was a bad idea?

We got cooler lancers.

4 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

We got cooler lancers.

What, behind the grotesque Destroyer-Interceptor hybrid?

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

What, behind the grotesque Destroyer-Interceptor hybrid?

*shudder*

I can still see it when I close my eyes.

?

There just isn't a right answer with Star Wars fans is there?

54 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

?

There just isn't a right answer with Star Wars fans is there?

Agreed Cap’n. Agreed.