Leaving aside all this stuff about bias and balance which we know nothing about, I think it would have been more fun if Wedge’s ability had been bullseye only. Or indeed if that was the standard effect for a bullseye shot.

I wish that was the standard effect for being in a bullseye arc.

20 minutes ago, Varyag said:

I wish that was the standard effect for being in a bullseye arc.

I think that might actually would have made swarms a bit TOO powerful...

Wedge is awesome... and his ability is just fine as it is

Thanks to FFG for making it available in his complete arc, not just the bullseye.

Apart from that, I don't really know why people are trying to get a ship nerfed, which has not seen any competitive play for several year now, even though it's supposed to be THE BEST ACE of all Rebel Alliance X-Wing pilots.

Why do you even care about Wedge? Has he been a threat in your local meta anytime lately?

2 hours ago, Schu81 said:

Wedge is awesome... and his ability is just fine as it is

Thanks to FFG for making it available in his complete arc, not just the bullseye.

Apart from that, I don't really know why people are trying to get a ship nerfed, which has not seen any competitive play for several year now, even though it's supposed to be THE BEST ACE of all Rebel Alliance X-Wing pilots.

Why do you even care about Wedge? Has he been a threat in your local meta anytime lately?

It’s not a nerf if it gets costed appropriately. I just think it would add to the fun by making positioning more important.

Arcs already make positioning important

Wedge also makes positioning important by removing a die

Nothing **** over tactical play like green dice, except turrets (DEAD!)

I said more important. Getting someone in arc is the bare minimum to get a shot off (which applies to turrets too now?); it’s extra cool if you get someone bang in the middle for a bonus! Not saying it’s a huge deal, but I think it’s a cool mechanic and I’d like to see a lot of it. That’s why I’m excited about new Soontir, I think he’s going to be a lot of fun, dodging about, trying to get the perfect spot where one barrel roll will both get you out of their arc and put them in your BE (and you need to judge that before you commit to it now, no testing positions)!

4 hours ago, Warlon said:

I think that might actually would have made swarms a bit TOO powerful...

As they probably should be really. If several ships have you lined up dead-to-rights you're probably boned. But I guess the game is a very simplified abstraction so we can't have things like range 4 missiles to break up swarms before their lasers get in range.

14 minutes ago, Chucknuckle said:

As they probably should be really. If several ships have you lined up dead-to-rights you're probably boned. But I guess the game is a very simplified abstraction so we can't have things like range 4 missiles to break up swarms before their lasers get in range.

Launched bombs could prove to be a similar deterrent

Course we don't know who exact can launch em, but nothing breaks a formation quite like the threat of splash damage

6 hours ago, Warlon said:

I think that might actually would have made swarms a bit TOO powerful...

Usually swarm ships only have 2 attack die, so I don't think it would be too powerful.

4 hours ago, Varyag said:

Usually swarm ships only have 2 attack die, so I don't think it would be too powerful.

I mocked up the BoLS lists the other day and played out a second edition game. At one point, wedge had a blocked Vader dead to rights at range 1... except that not only did Vader have a return shot, two black cracks had bullseye on him as well. He chose to barrel roll out of Vader's Arc (and no longer shooting at Vader) to go for a tie instead.

On 5/10/2018 at 1:17 AM, Commander Kaine said:

I'm so bumping this thread when Soontir is revealed to be within 90% of Wedge's point cost... what will you say then?

EHM.

THEY. COST. THE. SAME.

You can shoot at wedge. You can’t shoot Fel. This isn’t complex.

7 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

You can shoot at wedge. You can’t shoot Fel. This isn’t complex.

You know that's not how it actually works, right?

Turrets still exist. Even at highest Ini, they can just turn on Fel and shoot him. Also, I think you are overestimating the abilities of the Interceptor... You can catch them in arc.

33 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

You know that's not how it actually works, right?

Turrets still exist. Even at highest Ini, they can just turn on Fel and shoot him. Also, I think you are overestimating the abilities of the Interceptor... You can catch them in arc.

Any half-competent, In6 ace will be incredibly hard to pin down with a bow tie arc, unless a player is using Han with an initiative bid, or the horrifically-priced Luke gunner.

4 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Any half-competent, In6 ace will be incredibly hard to pin down with a bow tie arc, unless a player is using Han with an initiative bid, or the horrifically-priced Luke gunner.

Or 4 Wardens with Barrage rockets and bowtie to give them a 270 arc each. ?

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

You know that's not how it actually works, right?

Turrets still exist. Even at highest Ini, they can just turn on Fel and shoot him. Also, I think you are overestimating the abilities of the Interceptor... You can catch them in arc.

Thanks bud. I’m sure Fel was never a problem for arcs to land. I must be mistaken.

33 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Any half-competent, In6 ace will be incredibly hard to pin down with a bow tie arc, unless a player is using Han with an initiative bid, or the horrifically-priced Luke gunner.

Why do you assume that the Imperial pilot will have the advantage of initiative? That sounds like something that will change list to list, and having played a lot of maximum PS ships, sometimes it happens that you won't have the initiative.

3 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Thanks bud. I’m sure Fel was never a problem for arcs to land. I must be mistaken.

Okay...You are aware that there is a difference between not getting shot (at all) and having problems making an easy shot?

Also, that the game involves guessing the opponent's dials, and if they manage to guess yours, you can be caught in arc?

Or that the actual problem of Fel was 4 agility, focus evade + Palp?

2 minutes ago, Commander Kaine said:

Why do you assume that the Imperial pilot will have the advantage of initiative? That sounds like something that will change list to list, and having played a lot of maximum PS ships, sometimes it happens that you won't have the initiative.

Okay...You are aware that there is a difference between not getting shot (at all) and having problems making an easy shot?

Also, that the game involves guessing the opponent's dials, and if they manage to guess yours, you can be caught in arc?

Or that the actual problem of Fel was 4 agility, focus evade + Palp?

Really, a large base primary turret can just point the arc backwards and fly away from Soontir. If Soontir makes any effort to engage, the turreted ship will get a shot. Its easy stuff.

1 hour ago, Commander Kaine said:

Or that the actual problem of Fel was 4 agility, focus evade + Palp?

Fly 2 b wings against ptl Fel. Fly the same 2 against Wedge. It isn’t Palp. It isn’t f/e. It’s double-repositioning at I6 that is bonkers.

22 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Fly 2 b wings against ptl Fel. Fly the same 2 against Wedge. It isn’t Palp. It isn’t f/e. It’s double-repositioning at I6 that is bonkers.

Right.

I played with and against double reposition enough to know that while it is difficult to get in arc, it is not impossible. It happens during games. There are multiple arcs and if the opponent is "gud", then it is likely that you won't have an option to get away.

Also, you can't just dodge arcs all day. Sometimes, you have to engage.

I think the people who claim "soontir won't get shot" are not being honest. He will. He might dodge more arcs than most, but to say that he won't get shot is a bit strong.

Fel's price will go down, as interceptors won't be popular choices. IMO, Interceptors will be in a pretty similar situation to pre-aces of empire era in 1.0

Yeah, double reposition, but if so, no defensive mods behind 3 hull … Pretty much one-shot if anything looks at it.

Fel being unshootable? Yeah, in your nightmares, maybe. Anyone with more than one ship in his squad WILL get to shoot him no matter what.

I wonder if Royal Guard TIE will make its way into 2nd edition as a combined +1 shield/hull configuration.

Why does a Wedge/Fel matchup need to be exactly 50/50 for their costs to be balanced? Wedge could win the 1v1 matchup 80% of the time, but that by itself wouldn't mean that he is super underpriced or that Fel is way too expensive. They fly different ships that bring different strengths and weaknesses to different factions.

I think the 1v1 matchup comes down to initiative because the Interceptor chassis remains heavily reliant on arc-dodging. Maybe Wedge doesn't mind moving first quite as much as Fel does, but I don't see why that should affect their costs.

18 minutes ago, nexttwelveexits said:

Why does a Wedge/Fel matchup need to be exactly 50/50 for their costs to be balanced? Wedge could win the 1v1 matchup 80% of the time, but that by itself wouldn't mean that he is super underpriced or that Fel is way too expensive. They fly different ships that bring different strengths and weaknesses to different factions.

I think the 1v1 matchup comes down to initiative because the Interceptor chassis remains heavily reliant on arc-dodging. Maybe Wedge doesn't mind moving first quite as much as Fel does, but I don't see why that should affect their costs.

Well, if one ship has a mechanism dependent on a simple and easy mechanic, compared to one with a far more difficult and situational mechanic, the simpler mechanic being more reliable is (or needs to be) inherently more expensive. You're paying points for the reliability or you're saving points for the inconsistency.