There is 0% chance that FFG will have a balanced game on release. There are too many pilots and updates to try to balance with their limited playtesting. The good news is that they built in a way to balance it after release with the app. Just don't expect it to come quickly. I would estimate it will take FFG around a year to get it right. So everyone will need to have some patience until then.

I mean, they've said they already worked on it for most of the last year. I would say that the odds of a balanced game are significantly better than zero.

Also, hold the salt! Jeez.

Well, the other nice thing is that it doesn't much matter if the game is perfectly balanced on release. The core game mechanics being fun, and the competitive game revolving around fun strategies is what matters.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

Well, the other nice thing is that it doesn't much matter if the game is perfectly balanced on release. The core game mechanics being fun, and the competitive game revolving around fun strategies is what matters.

Wait, wut?

That sounded wholesome.

1 minute ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I mean, they've said they already worked on it for most of the last year. I would say that the odds of a balanced game are significantly better than zero.

Also, hold the salt! Jeez.

I'm hugely excited for 2.0, but I also have zero faith that it will be balanced at launch. It'll be fun, sure, but expecting the devs to hit a bullseye with this many moving pieces, and to do better than the infinite-monkeys-on-infinite-typewriters capabilities of the playerbase in identifying every broken combo? It's an impossible task. The degree of difficulty is such that it would have been one of the twelve labors of Hercules.

12 minutes ago, Oprah Smash said:

There is 0% chance that FFG will have a balanced game on release. There are too many pilots and updates to try to balance with their limited playtesting. The good news is that they built in a way to balance it after release with the app. Just don't expect it to come quickly. I would estimate it will take FFG around a year to get it right. So everyone will need to have some patience until then.

While 100% perfectly balance is never going to happen (its impossible)

I do feel like 2.0 will be decent enough out the gate, probably more so then 1.0 is right now. Balancing everything together at once with no care in the world to how the "changes" will effect people should be easier then doing it bit by bit with a fear of making to many changes to an already established game. Add to the fact right up until the App is released they can change all point costs and upgrade slots to their hearts content. Before all the point costing and slots were assigned very early in development in order to give graphic design enough time and fabrication enough time, now they just have more time for tweaks.

Just now, Brunas said:

Well, the other nice thing is that it doesn't much matter if the game is perfectly balanced on release. The core game mechanics being fun, and the competitive game revolving around fun strategies is what matters.

I mean, there are too many variables (by dozens!) to ever have a really balanced game, but it can be close enough that the differentiator is skill. And yeah, it'll be way more fun than what we've been playing.

Also, I think the steady-state equilibrium (aka finding the meta) will always be at least a little transient, since there will be new waves and dynamic point /upgrade adjustments. This is way better than counting the days towards the next release/FAQ/errata hoping it will shake things up.

While the OP will catch a lot of flak for saying it, it's a pretty useful PSA that's got a decent likelihood of being true.

Tempering your expectations a bit is probably healthy.

2 minutes ago, SOTL said:

While the OP will catch a lot of flak for saying it, it's a pretty useful PSA that's got a decent likelihood of being true.

Tempering your expectations a bit is probably healthy.

Sure, but did anyone expect a game this large to ever be "balanced" because i sure as **** didin't.

Its just a strange statement, of course its not going to be Its impossible. The real question is how close to balance can they get it? And i think they have a decent chance of getting it closer then 1.0 is currently (as i described above).

The OP basically just said PSA: "there is 0% chance the sun will not come up tomorrow." when the question should have been how likely is it to be overcast and how much sun light is going to get through.

13 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I mean, they've said they already worked on it for most of the last year. I would say that the odds of a balanced game are significantly better than zero.

Also, hold the salt! Jeez.

Im not upset or salty I just think everyone should have realistic expectations going into 2nd edition.

14 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Well, the other nice thing is that it doesn't much matter if the game is perfectly balanced on release. The core game mechanics being fun, and the competitive game revolving around fun strategies is what matters.

no! only balance matters! not fun!

PSA? nope.

the troll has been fed....

21 minutes ago, Oprah Smash said:

There is 0% chance that FFG will have a balanced game on release. There are too many pilots and updates to try to balance with their limited playtesting. The good news is that they built in a way to balance it after release with the app. Just don't expect it to come quickly. I would estimate it will take FFG around a year to get it right. So everyone will need to have some patience until then.

They've been playtesting for approx. seven years. This is a game, not the Hadron Collider... things might be a little off while everything gets its sea-legs but just how many decimals of a percentile are they allowed to be off by?

Also, we will be born into the world of 2nd Edition like newborn babes. We will know nothing; it will take us a bit of time (probably not too long) to start finding the rough edges and the unforeseen combinations that are above the intended power curve of the game. Until that time, we all get to have fun. Then, hopefully not long after the puzzle is solved, the pieces change shape and color and we start again.

27 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Well, the other nice thing is that it doesn't much matter if the game is perfectly balanced on release. The core game mechanics being fun, and the competitive game revolving around fun strategies is what matters.

I like the way you think. I hope there will be lots of strategies that are viable in the competitive side.

Do we know if 3rd parties can share / host cost setups for the game? Like can you select "Team Covenant" for the upgrade / pilot costs in your app and build with their design? I know they're going to afford special rulesets for running events things like Original Trilogy only, or other special crap.

What I'm getting at is -- if its possible to easily share setups-- would we likely see a 3rd party start to take the reins for balancing, and people just start gravitating toward X's official cost list as they've done a lot of playtesting / balancing?

11 minutes ago, stuffedskullcat said:

They've been playtesting for approx. seven years. This is a game, not the Hadron Collider... things might be a little off while everything gets its sea-legs but just how many decimals of a percentile are they allowed to be off by?

They'd been playtesting AGOT LCG for over a decade and the relaunched 2.0 was still a basket of madness.

Thats a great idea Glucose98. I haven't heard anything but would be interested to find out. I really hope that they leverage the possibilities of the app and make it more than just a squad builder.

4 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

Do we know if 3rd parties can share / host cost setups for the game? Like can you select "Team Covenant" for the upgrade / pilot costs in your app and build with their design? I know they're going to afford special rulesets for running events things like Original Trilogy only, or other special crap.

What I'm getting at is -- if its possible to easily share setups-- would we likely see a 3rd party start to take the reins for balancing, and people just start gravitating toward X's official cost list as they've done a lot of playtesting / balancing?

I don't think so and i do not think they should.

One simple reason, any change someone else does first they will be accused of stealing. Its already pretty bad for that from some people who i wont list.

1 minute ago, Icelom said:

I don't think so and i do not think they should.

One simple reason, any change someone else does first they will be accused of stealing. Its already pretty bad for that from some people who i wont list.

No one owns the IP on the point cost of an upgrade card, who really cares if you hurt their feelings?

In all honesty I don’t expect perfect balance but I do expect them to have learned from the past 6 years and expect a much MORE balanced game at launch than v1 plus the fact as was stated they baked in a massively better tool to tweak balance. It’s going to be ok. Fools expect perfection, I expect improvement and doubt very much I’ll be disappointed.

Will the game be perfectly balanced on release day? Highly unlikely. Will the game be in a worse state balance wise than first edition? Zero chance.

8 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

No one owns the IP on the point cost of an upgrade card, who really cares if you hurt their feelings?

While i 100% agree with you, it just causes allot of complaining and annoyance that i just do not want to have to trudge through.

One thing to keep in mind: Currently in 1e, the amount of content released at any one time is such a small proportion of total content that it’s not too hard to sift through the new stuff, find where it improves current power lists, and create something unblanced and broken within a few weeks of release.

Upon release of 2.0 EVERYTHING will be new. We will enter an unprecedented period of experimentation as people dust off old ships and try out new pilots and combinations that would’ve never made sense in 1.0. So even if it’s not perfectly balanced right out the gate, I would guess that it will take some time to uncover where exactly the broken content lies.